What happened to the RP in the MMORPG in AO?

[Agrestus]

If you guys want to try and do player-run storyline and events? Go for it! Knock yourselves out, and I mean that seriously - if I see anything there that seems good, maybe I'll even try and work it in officially. But, to be honest and frank, looking over the vast majority of people who've posted in this thread? It'll never happen. There are too many large egos, too many people wanting "control", too many people thinking that *their* vision is ultimately the only one that should prevail, and that'll be the downturn.

I had been doing player-run plots for years with the hacker group Black-Net (lots of turmoil here!), the private investigators gone rogue DoI (comic relief and professionalism at its finest!), a struggling entrepreneur owning Lotto Enterprises (Better go Lotto than Notto!), the introduction of The Leetles band (which had their best appearance at the 9th anniversary), and lots of other little things that I tried my best to get the word out - either via the in-character forums or from my freelance IRRK reporter, Lucetta Phoenix. That could be considered as too much or trying to hog control. If that's the way it was seen then I'm sorry it was misinterpreted as such.

I'm sure lots of us have done similar things in their time, I just had to slow down and stop most of it because the lack of player response/involvement I was receiving. I agree with a lot of your points there and I do think a lot of people need to get off their butts and give it another try. All the doom and gloom in this forums and the community in general is certainly going to cloud my view (and that of others that might be curious to take part) when it comes to giving it a second try.

Noone is blameless here, we've all made mistakes or been idiots at least a few times, me especially.

While I can't afford to continue my subscription, I'm going to continue with my froob characters with what time I have available and try to figure out what I can manage with the resources I have available. AO has taken up a good 6 years of my life (I'm not one of those hardcore 2001'ers, but still), and I hate to see it like this. If others would be willing to join me and give it another try, I'd be happy to give it another shot.

[Lliers]

Because this is apparently what people can come up with for RP:

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=591658

Really?

[FoosballX]

Okay so in response to Kintaii's post, and I have to admit there's some good stuff in there and a lot I agree with. But I got to call BS when I see it. Okay you've thrown out a few tid bits, umm how should I say this tid bits aren't enough, we been being fed tid bits for way to long, what people what and what I think a lot of the complaints are about is we want some chunks and resolutions to some storylines here. Not obscure little things here and there which nobody has a clue well be used later or not. I mean i would think you learned this from the whole end of the Pen Quest tie in with the Xan expansion that nobody got. I get a lot of times you want to drop little hints here and there to lead to something big, but they don't help when they're space out 6 months apart from each other.

I agree there does need to be more player run storyline but lets also face facts that the source material in this game is less then stellar. Granted I know you're going to come back with something about how you didn't need it blah blah blah, and yeah maybe in a lot of cases the basic rules of RP and what players can and can't do with the factions LTCs are enough. But there's nothing more disheartening to put a lot of time and effort into something only to have holes blown in it later on by some new FC/Events story.

I'm not totally bashing you guys here either, I mean so far AO is the only game I know that has something like events in it, but do you know what the other games have that AO does? A solid storyline with questions answered in the plot lines, clear cut well defined answers too. Not like the lame answer you gave me for the ICC owning Neuter's R Us. Here's a good example game has been around for 10 years now and there are still arguments over the roll of the ICC and how they operate and what they do? I mean really come on now. Don't tell me these things aren't important a lot of the reasons players don't run storylines is because they're really not sure what is okay and what's not. When you first started this section of the forums there was a disagreement between you events and the players and nobody seemed to have an answer.

Granted yes I am I a break from AO for a bit, some of it to do with time and other to do with more personal reasons as to why i just don't feel like playing a lot. But I could sit down for hours and write out all kinds of mechanics on how things work, rules, laws, and whatever but without any kind of real feedback or OK from FC/Events it's all really point less. I mean you have a number of players more then willing to work out a lot of things fill in some of the massive holes and answer some of the most simple questions that have gone unanswered for years.

Look Kintaii I know you're busy with a lot of other things, but the reality is there will always be fires to put out and there will always something pressing to take care of in game, I don't envy you're job in anyway but that doesn't change the fact you do need to drop some major story blobs, not just throw out scraps and hope everyone chases after it. Doesn't even need to be rped in some cases I think a lot of people just want some answers and will take them as spoilers.

Also keep in mind too when throwing out the scraps you're dealing with a jaded group here who have seen FC start a lot of things but never finish them, or just throw something is half-assed just because someone thought it would be cool, but never gave a really good story reason or did anything with it after. I point in the direction of Borealis. Oh and yeah yeah I know you've got big plans for that, well right now I'll believe it when I see it because you told me this over a year ago now, and still there's nothing.

Okay I'm done... for now

[Tucxedo]

If you guys want to try and do player-run storyline and events? Go for it! Knock yourselves out, and I mean that seriously - if I see anything there that seems good, maybe I'll even try and work it in officially. But, to be honest and frank, looking over the vast majority of people who've posted in this thread? It'll never happen. There are too many large egos, too many people wanting "control", too many people thinking that *their* vision is ultimately the only one that should prevail, and that'll be the downturn.

I suggest that, if you want to roleplay, you go forth and you roleplay. Sitting on the forums and complaining about how much better it was back in this mythical "day" everyone keeps talking about does nothing to get folks in-game and acting out their characters. I've given you tidbits, I've given you story hooks, I've given you in-character forums posts and in-game dialog and everything short of Tarkhan Zora personally walking up to every character in game and handing over a box of chocolates. Do I see threads talking about the quest dialog I wrote? Nope. Anything talking about those interesting item descriptions? Nada. Even the Editor News threads I've made over the years have received little-to-no-attention. And before any of you even go there it ain't my fault because I did this to a lot more acclaim for a long time prior to anyone knowing I was behind it, so you can forget about trying to blame the cult-of-personality aspect. ;P

I cannot and will not hold your hands. No one held mine while I was RPing in AO - I was almost never involved in the 'larger politics' of the game, only saw the two ARK-lead events as I mentioned, never hit up the BoD/CoT as my play character, and instead just simply enjoyed *being*. Not only did I do that but pretty much EVERY OTHER ROLEPLAYER IN-GAME THAT I KNEW OF DID THAT. They were happy simply playing their characters, maybe getting involved in some player-run intrigue, but otherwise they did it for the fun and enjoyment of it. You guys? Given the many, many years of complaints I've watched come from the vast majority of you, I'm fairly certain that *nothing* I do will please most of the people in this thread. The people who truly *enjoyed* RPing are either gone or are actually in-game and roleplaying - Something I'm not entirely certain I can say for most of you.

Am I the only one who gets the feeling that we are in a situation of realtime omni vs clans here? and I dont want to put a omni or clan tag on FC/ark or on the playerbase. But unless we all become "neutral" (me included) and stop putting blame on the other side I fear there will be never any change.

(ps. if I DO have to tag, Id say the playerbase is definitively clans, we want changes, blame omni-tek but have issues in our own camp
and FC/ARK omni-tek for setting the rules and maintaining order and control. ohwell and for being plain evil ofcourse (joke ofcourse )

[Kintaii]

I don't wanna come across as sounding like I don't think there's any blame on our or my own personal end either, because there is - I will sit here now and tell you that there's more *everyone* could have done and could be doing to help the situation. The problem is that in a lot of ways I just don't think a lot of us really know *how* anymore. The old ways... the old ways aren't cutting it anymore, and I think that if we all step back from the situation for a moment and really look at it honestly that's one point we can end up agreeing on.

I have more to say and offer on the subject, but I'm on a crappy laptop keyboard right now and it's 11:30pm on a friday night and yeah. ;P I have some ideas I want to put forward to you guys, though, and I genuinely hope that at the end we can reach a good, solid middle ground to work with. We all want the same thing - We just gotta figure out a way to get there *together*. =)

[Xirayne]

These are just my opinions about things!

-Content isn't being designed around relevent rp scenarios anymore, sl and xan stories require a lot of reading and research and there is hardly anything to participate with ingame features or events. There are very few events happening about the omni/clan conflict, even fewer in cities.. pretty much all the events I've seen recently(other than the bday events) have just been seemingly random alien raids. They are fun as heck but without much feeling of purpose, especially since all most people are getting are a few numbers etched into their "killed by invaders" counter.. which some people, including myself, are actually a bit sensitive about.

-There are very few people actually in cities anymore, population is low, the bs hub seperated pvp participants from the rest of the game breeding angry trolls with no social skills :O, there are very few new players to make impressions on who also have had almost no introduction to the conflict, the list goes on. So yeah, the old ways just aren't cutting it anymore.. but not without reasons, and I think if we could address some of those problems that things would prolly get a lot easier for everyone


But for example, the birthday events.. fairly fun, good loot, got to see a lot of other players! Nomad tunnels were really exiting and I'd love more stuff like that.. It's just I didn't really know what the nomads had to do with anything, was this ever explained? It was just so random! And I honestly just could NOT justify myself killing the friends and stealing presents from some guy on his birthday, the one day someone is supposed to not be miserable lol. The whole thing made me feel like a horrible person


-I've never really been an active RPer, I've never went out of my way to seek it, I've usually been too caught up trying to level and explore, but when I see a rp event it makes me quite happy, sometimes I participate, usually I just observe. But when it's nowhere to be seen I get a bit sad. When I look at the RK timeline and see nothing has really happened in years, I get sad. I think a lot of the rp requires complementary game content to be designed for/by it so the players feel like they are accomplishing something from it. Something so that the casual players can feel a part of it without being totally lost and/or thinking the game is full of weirdos.

I do agree that both players and devs could do more to get things going again. I would love more rp events designed around a basic "if you were casually playing a game what would you like to see" concept, with some more complex events for the more hardcore RPers. I'd love to hear what kintaiis ideas are

[Windguaerd]

Kintaiii. this is going to sound a bit crazy and FC may not like it, but if you ARE the storyline guy and they gave you enough leeway... we can do this...

Give us (the Roleplayers who are at least active in this forum) a basic layout, a basic idea about something in the game and allow us to help you determine what it is.

Let's give it a test run with... let's say... ICC

ICC (Interstellar Confederation of Corporations)

Concept of ICC - What exactly is the reason it exists, how it was formed and when.
ICC Leadership - Who administrates/rules it, is it a Board of Directors or a Council or some other governing body?
ICC Corporate Members - Hyper Corporations Omni-Tek, TruSpace Networks, Sol Banking Corporation are the only ones mentioned in the timeline but I doubt there are only 3 of them across the entire universe, so who are the rest?
ICC Legal Limitations - What can they do, and what can't they do.

Maybe if we can get this part of the storyline straight, we can work from there.

[Leileena]

@ Kintaii
You're stating people should whine less about the good old days and interact more (which I do in fact agree with) and then say you never needed ARK run events as you were always just casually roleplaying with random players. The problem there is that when you were roleplaying, it was in the good old days most people here are whining about. With the current low player base it is near impossible to get some casual RP, save with the LTC Fishmen as he has a reliable time and place to find him.

The reason I think an official storyline is so valuable at this time is because it is the same for all players, it gives everyone something in common, they are subject to the same events. It makes casual RP more attractive because it actually gives players something to talk about. Where player-run events never seem to go beyond a very limited public, the official storyline is generally known and accepted by all players. This isn't about requirements for RP, its about reaching what little community there is left.

@Agre
Sounds like a plan. You know me, I'm always up for a new project. I've got some things running myself too, will catch you ingame.

[playboyfixer]

never hit up the BoD/CoT as my play character

so you played a neutral toon eh ;D

@ Lliers, chitchat has professionally (and as always 200% truthfully ) countered that message with a news item of its own

@ everyone on RK1 that wants to casually RP, without really fighting (unless to keep yourself alive in RK / SL), and wants to freely decide how much time you put into the event each day / week; i'm STILL doing:

1) the RK-SL link research storyline of my own:
* research what link there is between RK and SL, by translating Xan alphabet (which i did for a large part already, as well as find similarities in both fields (statue in ELY is same as statue in ICC square)
* i'm not using ANY data from the official storyline or prophet books or forums, i ONLY use the info i get from Ergo, SL mobs, that Number 9 bot after Beast and other NPC's / players that i meet ingame
* ... (any input or speculations wanted too from others wanting to involve themselves)

2) AI invasion research storyline:
* trying to figure out why the aliens keep attacking RK and not one of the billions of other planets no doubt exist in the universe
* speculating wether they want the notum (is it a drug, or some kind of food for them)
* ... (any input or speculations wanted too from others wanting to involve themselves)

so yeah, this thread might be the perfect way to announce to all u RPers again that i'm doing some events too, even though they're somewhat in stasis till someone else shows up to interact. Feel free to send me a tell (oocly for info if u want) ICly saying that you heard rumors bout research or so i'm sure you'll figure something out

edit: i could even use extra ChitChat reporters, if someone's daring enough to use their name, or a (new) alt's name as reporter, to whip up your own super truthful stories

[Towerblock]

To address Kintaii;

You are right about a few things. Egos, and the fact that the old way of RP just doesn't seem to catch much attention. We need more cooperation from RP'rs and Events. I'm old now. I'm bitter. I can't feel proud about playing with some of this latest generation of role-players because I feel like I need to endure quite a bit of childishness, soap remarks, and (please forgive my use of frankness) poorly executed story arcs that never seem to meet conclusion. I just can't bring myself to suspend that much disbelief. So, over time I found me a clique, full of older folks, who enjoy the old way of RP. These people I adore. Anyone else I seem to kinda stand behind my screen thinking how much I just don't understand why kids act out so inanely. I roleplay just as much as I raid, explore content, and kill players. I am one of the few people that gets involved in everything.

Personally, I'd just say lets clean the slate and see if we can't come together on something. That sort of thing I've been pushing for years. I feel that if you want something to come together, then you got to communicate to folks and get them involved. I even set up an ARK/RP party with GSP back in the day, so that players and Eventers could talk. You gotta proverbially do that thing with chocolates, and make them feel like their presence actually matters. If you don't then you'll have a very difficult time getting anyone to get involved. You'll constantly come back to the end of the circle thinking you have totally wasted your time. Without some sort of acknowledgement, how do you expect people to be motivated by what you have to offer?

As for my personal involvement, I am.. sadly, at the end of my rope. I have been having issues with FunCom Billing, Customer Service, the desperate lack of population, the childish forum griefing, and the lack of any game progress that matters to me. These things don't even include RP related stuff. I don't feel like a customer. I feel like I just got thrown under a bus, like any other number. I have been loyal for years, more then likely spent hundreds of dollars on this game, and this is what that has come to.

[Gimpeline]

Soo. if you lived in a contry where you didnt get any news for 4 years. What would you talk. (rp) about. You trolling is way under standard, Kintaii. We are not responsibille for the lack of official storyline. You are. We do our small things.
Follow the rules and mabye you include it? What a joke. We are not alowed to include the official story line

[Kintaii]

Soo. if you lived in a contry where you didnt get any news for 4 years. What would you talk. (rp) about. You trolling is way under standard, Kintaii. We are not responsibille for the lack of official storyline. You are

No, no, and I'm not saying that - I am, however, saying that what attempts I've made at putting storyline tidbits and information out there have been, unfortunately, largely ignored. I can come up with a dozen different reasons as to *why*, but when the things that we *do* manage to put out there end up being mostly bypassed and unexplored by the populace at large, it *does* tend to sap the drive and desire to push more story content forward.

I want you guys to take a step back and look at my perspective for a moment here. We talk about the "official storyline" of Anarchy Online, but that's really what, exactly? Some people would tell you it's the story of the clans, some say it's the story of Omni-Tek, some say it's the story of the Xan or the Omegas or who knows what all. We have ten-plus years of story and continuity build up, but all of it leading to.... what? I mean I have no idea where they were going with their original four-year plan; there's no storyline documentation, no grand bible for me to follow. I have the same amount of knowledge and access to information that you guys do (save a few interesting documents regarding the Kyr'ozch that someone left behind from the AI development days; otherwise, I don't have much).

Now, my task (along with everything else i do around here ;P) is to take this continuity and move forward with it. There are two major problems with this.

(A): Said continuity was originally developed in a fashion that is both outdated and currently unrealistic: their 'four-year plan', expectations of online communities that were incorrect (remember: AO was developed back in the pioneer days of online gaming, they didn't know *what* to expect, and made some misjudgments in how to handle events-driven content), and designing the story to be carried by a much, much larger team than currently available.

(B): The continuity of Anarchy Online has gotten top-heavy, with very little in the way of a good foundation and holes everywhere. This happens when you have a rotating roster of teams all injecting their own vision of storyline into major expansions, updates and releases - Teams that, woefully, seemed to approach documentation as though it were a mystical, dire thing. :P Macrosun sits over there and stares at a spaghetti pile of code; I stare at a spaghetti pile of storyline.

These are both hard truths to swallow, but it's time we all got real with each other for a bit. We, the roleplaying community and leadership of Anarchy Online, cannot keep going this way. If we try it's just going to get worse. It's going to keep falling apart and we're going to find ourselves a dead breed in AO, and I don't want that any more than the rest of you do. We must evolve with the times or die.

I have an idea. I need to talk first to my team and gather their opinions, but either way I feel it's time we all have a meeting. One way or another, we, together, need to start deciding the future of story progression in AO. I'll make an announcement here in 4thW soon and spread it over the various information portals once I've settled on a date/time - Expect somewhere in the next three weeks or so.

[Towerblock]

Okay, I get what you are saying. This is probably stressful for you, as the same it is for us. Point taken.

How much of this autonomy are they giving you? Iif its all green lights, then literally there is nothing holding the community (be they roleplayers OR events) back. Like any other great series, most of it was also developed along the same lines that that of Star Trek, or the Star Wars series. It started off as one thing, but now it means something different to everyone thats involved. It may sound lame that most of its evolution was thrown together as a collage of community based fan articles and devoted works, but this is something that can be either grown past or worked with.

If you like, Kintaii, I am so willing to help work with you.. its dreadfully lame im practically begging. I want to help because helping you is helping everyone and everything that keeps people here. Maybe I don't need to actually apply for the story content position, because maybe I can just send you all this crap in my head and let you play with it, or throw it out a window.

How does that sound?

[Siahanor]

I'd say start with "Prophet without Honor", round up all the bits of major and minor storyline since then that flow from that telling or can fit in without major flaws, then build from there. Bring the evil that is originally behind Omni-Tek back into focus, for instance.

Bring back Roman and Vanya. Bring back the mythos of how Rubi-ka is the "Garden of Eden", which is why "rebirth of the soul" can only happen on Rubi-ka and later SL, since SL is actually Rubi-ka of the past before/as the "Garden" deteriorated.

There are so many avenues to explore, everything from "Heaven and Hell", "demons and angels", "good and evil" that lie behind the scenes of the Omni's and Clans, as well as the surface layer of good old fashioned human conflict between the two. And you also have the story of those who try to stay out of the way, as well as those who work one side against the other for their own gains ( both currently falling in the "neutral" alignment, we seriously need a "mercenary" faction lol ).

And it's not just the RP'ers who benefit from this, but the playerbase as a whole. AO really has one of the greatest background stories of any game I've ever seen, a combination of fantasy, mysticism, religion, philosophy,and science all merged together in a way that somehow made them all fit side-by-side. But it just stopped. And then stuff just started getting cobbled together. Now people see SL after being on RK and wonder "Where the hell did the sci-fi go? Why am I in a fantasy game?" Because new players ( and even many vets ) don't know how SL even fits into the game.

Bring Ragnar back! lol

[Dagget]

Well, at the present time (and really for the past 2 years) the biggest problem is 80% lack of RP-interested players. For any MMO not based on a widely known IP (SWG/Lotro/AoC/etc) the roleplaying population is going to be a tiny % of the overall population. In the distant years past, that % amounted to enough ppl to sustain critical mass. When the engine comes out, I fully expect a huge mass rush of vets, newbies, and flavor-of-the-month ppl totaling some 100-200k - any new MMO that sneezes draws that big of a crowd initially. That will be our next opportunity to progress the RP here, if we can draw in the ppl with the necessary RP interest and skills. FC/ARK/players all need to be prepared for that so as to not miss the 1-time opportunity.

The other difficult part, from what I have seen, is the aggressive attitude of a few of the vets towards RP newbies. I've tried a couple of story arcs and drawn in org newbies who voiced an interest and they are invariably terrified and back out when,during an early RP session with other ppl, someone starts telling them stuff like "That goes against the Tir Accord" or some other bombast intended to demonstrate that persons' superior RP knowledge to the newbie. That and the heavy metagaming that goes on. When you want more roleplay, you involve more ppl, not triple log to argue with yourself to insure the direction of a story.

.

[FoosballX]

Well Kintaii I do agree with what you say, and I understand where you're coming from as I've been pretty much saying the same thing for a few years now.

So here are a few suggestions granted I'm sure to piss a few off here, but when has that ever stopped be before.

So it's time to revamp the story, break it down simplify it and switch from a very linear to non-linear flow. Out with the old and in with the new. As much as I hate to say this kill off David and Ross. Look I like both these characters a lot but if they're never going to come back or nothing is ever going to be done with it, then get rid of them. It's easy for people to talk about the old days when old stories still linger about.

Rewrite the lease or get rid of it. I know the a lot of the Omni power-mongers, err I mean players, may get their panties in a bunch over this but oh well. Keep in mind I'm not saying lets bring peace to RK where everyone holds hands and sings, heavens no. But something that defines a new era in the game lore but still allows for fighting and what not. A lot of my reasoning is to get away from the whole "clans are good omni bad and we must defeat the evil" storyline. Not saying that it's bad, it's just really linear and as it's been pointed out the 4 year beginning and end plan is totally lost. To quote an old friend "We're way off the trip-tick now". Also i think this is where a lot of the "move the storyline" anger comes from. The story so far is set up that it's leading to some big battle at the end, where as it should be we live in this world this is how things are and in the mean time other stuff is happening.

Well I'm going to get going as it's time to go out and live life, but that I mean not sit at home looking at a computer but being out with whoever and getting drunk! But while we're on the subject of rehashing and adding things. Well someone finally put a leash on Omni. I mean really will someone come up with a clear defined roll of things they can and can't do. I understand we don't want to stifle peoples creativity, but come on when you get people coming up with ranks and titles that put them above the board of directors it gets pretty silly. I mean every other RPG has rules and guidelines for factions and what is acceptable and what is not, accept for AO.

Well it looks like I'm out for the night. Deuces Yo!

[FoosballX]

Oh one last thing I forgot to add. Kintaii, dude, really get a new computer would you. Honestly I get after working with a game all day the last thing you want to do is go and play a game, but do you know how disheartening it is to hear a dev say how they can't login to the game at home cause their computer sucks. Really man.

[Tucxedo]

I vote too for droping the complete lease part of omni-tek and drop the ICC too. Never understood why this game was called Anarchy online when you have a side that practically "owns" the planet. With both ICC and lease drop you get a lot more freedom.

[Protozo]

The problem with the current storyline is that it's so friggin complicated and convoluted that many players don't even bother understanding it.

[Leadbelly]

This was a fun site to navigate.

http://www.GateCentral.com/ao/index.html

The irony of the mission terminals made me giggle.

The whole attitude of the of the game is refreshing.
the story and character development outweighed combat tenfold.

Now i'm going to go into a safe 100% zone and socialize with my peers.