Friday with(out) Means - June 10th, 2011: An Experiment

[Healingpower]

Any chance of a ETA for when the new engine is going to make it to the servers? Please

[Lazy]

It'll drop ACDCs that require an item from the in "ingame" store to be activated ^_=

oh god i lol'd

[Autohead]

Any chance of a ETA for when the new engine is going to make it to the servers? Please

I believe the ETA is still "later this year"...that's what it's been every single year since 2007!

[Healdem]

Any chance of a ETA for when the new engine is going to make it to the servers? Please

omg who really cares? I would play AO forever with current engine... if they ever closed it I would offer to host the damned thing..... think of the new engine like a tip.... Not expected... not nessecary.... but nice when you get it

[Kintaii]

Welcome to the East Coast!

Born and raised in Mississippi so yeah, I know how this goes. XD Just having spent the last 3.5 years in Oslo I got a little soft. ;P

Is the Gauntlet going to be an instance or more raid based?

Sorry if this was asked before.

This is a very, very interesting question with more than one answer. Without giving away too much yet this will be a *competitive* encounter, where teams will compete in a sort of "race" to get to the end - I'm being intentionally coy here and this doesn't really explain it, but it'll make sense when you guys get there. It's a little bit of the old and a little bit of the new, in terms of the mechanics being utilized - No 'put red mob on blue pedestal' type mechanics, though; in terms of what the mobs are doing, I'll say it's about 75% oldskool.

So then you are saying that the engine will be released even if the updated assets are not finished? Basically new engine with old assets. I find that hard to believe that the engine would be released without all the new assets being ready (like trees) as you probably want this be a big deal release with lots of PR and no speed bumps.

A review that states "new engine same old dated textures" probably would not be helpful to a revitalization of AO. So that is why I am betting their is some level of connection between the two.

That is why my take away was important to be addressed. While I find it hard to believe that the engine could be released without all the updated assets I will believe you that they are not tied together and truly on different release schedules. So here is hoping that I never see "Engine is ready but we are waiting for the asset update to get finished" in a FWM post.

We've said previously that redoing *every* single asset in AO for engine launch is... really just not that feasible - Hence why the focus we've had so far has been on things that are more 'visible'; areas that people use more often than others, stuff that people are more likely and able to see, and the like. Things like the trees, grid terminals, buildings in Borealis, etc. etc. are some of the best 'high-impact' things we can rework for visual immediacy.

These assets, though, don't have any impact on the *coding* work that Parsed has been handling; completely separate types of work with no interaction on a technical level. From a *marketing* level, yes - We naturally want to create as much as we can in terms of remade assets for the game prior to the official engine launch, for pretty much all of the reasons you listed above and many more. But we're also realistic and know that having *everything* remade before that is just impossible - AO's got 10 years worth of content and assets, and even with a team of 50+ people working solely on art resources it would still take *years* to recreate everything in AO to utilize all of the new shinies and benefits of the engine upgrade.

So yes - We want to get as *much* done as possible before engine launch, like the character bodies/heads, trees, some of the buildings/areas, etc. etc.; we'll also be working on creating some of our *new* areas and content to focus on the new engine, to truly show off what it can do when the artists get fully unleashed. However, we also know that there's no way we can remake *everything*, so we're focusing on the stuff that's the most 'important' at the moment. I would be very, very surprised if we didn't continue to add in additional remade assets over time for the lesser-used/seen 'objects' in the game well into and beyond the engine launch. =)

[Khlin]

in terms of what the mobs are doing, I'll say it's about 75% oldskool.

As long as the other 25% can grant a wipe if people aren't paying attention, it's all good.

Also, just put all the replies to the FWoM and your comments in the OP. That should amount to the good ol' Kintaii posts we've started to love.

[Lazy]

when are you going to fix the detonation matrix bug?

[Hunni]

Nothing to see here. Moving along.

[Icethunderrr]

just launch something..........anything.....before it will become solo game due to lack of players.

[Healdem]

just launch something..........anything.....before it will become solo game due to lack of players.

I would still play.

[Otansaanpas]

Means is out of town today unfortunately..

Bullet points.[*] MstrBstrd and Flaptoot have returned to the tasks of remodelling older assets for the new engine, with Flap working on trees. this week and MstrBstrd constructing the new bling'd out version of the reclaim/mail terminal. Looking very awesome.

And, uh... yeah! There ya go - Bullet points! Felt kinda weird in a way, not sure if I approve or not. :\ Also not sure I accomplished my goal of being 'brief'. >< Oh well - Back to my wall-of-text next time, I suppose. Hope you guys have a good weekend - See you later!

good work guys!

[Lheann]

These assets, though, don't have any impact on the *coding* work that Parsed has been handling; completely separate types of work with no interaction on a technical level. From a *marketing* level, yes - We naturally want to create as much as we can in terms of remade assets for the game prior to the official engine launch, for pretty much all of the reasons you listed above and many more. But we're also realistic and know that having *everything* remade before that is just impossible - AO's got 10 years worth of content and assets, and even with a team of 50+ people working solely on art resources it would still take *years* to recreate everything in AO to utilize all of the new shinies and benefits of the engine upgrade.

So yes - We want to get as *much* done as possible before engine launch, like the character bodies/heads, trees, some of the buildings/areas, etc. etc.; we'll also be working on creating some of our *new* areas and content to focus on the new engine, to truly show off what it can do when the artists get fully unleashed. However, we also know that there's no way we can remake *everything*, so we're focusing on the stuff that's the most 'important' at the moment. I would be very, very surprised if we didn't continue to add in additional remade assets over time for the lesser-used/seen 'objects' in the game well into and beyond the engine launch. =)

Thanks Kintaii,

That is exactly what I was wanting as an answer. The truth that release and completion are different things and that more than Parsed work on the coding is involved. It seems that the team has taken to to stating other work is not impacting engine release as a religious statement. The problem with that is as you just stated. From a pure coding level art/content work does not impact the engine work. But from a FC saying "Build and ship the engine update to live" there is a very real connection. Honestly, release means available on live for us to enjoy. So when the artist are off on other projects and not working on the assets that will go with the new engine (and we both know someone at FC has a list of must have assets) then that other work *does* have a chance of impacting the engine being released. And that is exactly what people have been asking about in previous threads when the religious answer was given back to them.

So is it to much to ask for engine release status to include a yes/no on the front of the FC must have asset list for engine release being completed or not? Again I am pretty sure there is a list of "must haves" a list of "would really love to have" and the remaining stuff list. I also understand that all the list probably get worked on as there is interrelationship and that is just how complex systems play out. But don't be coy and think we don't understand how large projected get managed.

So the next question is: At a marketing level is the re-balancing effort and new engine tied together? I have said for a long time that this is as close to AO2 as FC will ever get and suspect that this re-balancing effort is tied to engine and vice-versa for those marketing reasons.

My expectation is that FC will make a huge PR push for AO with a possible updated name like "Anarchy Online - End Game" that would include at the launch the new engine with as many assets as possible and the new updated classes fresh out of re-balance and the new starter area as well. Of course that is just speculation but it makes the best marketing sense.

[Kintaii]

Thanks Kintaii,

That is exactly what I was wanting as an answer. The truth that release and completion are different things and that more than Parsed work on the coding is involved. It seems that the team has taken to to stating other work is not impacting engine release as a religious statement. The problem with that is as you just stated. From a pure coding level art/content work does not impact the engine work. But from a FC saying "Build and ship the engine update to live" there is a very real connection. Honestly, release means available on live for us to enjoy. So when the artist are off on other projects and not working on the assets that will go with the new engine (and we both know someone at FC has a list of must have assets) then that other work *does* have a chance of impacting the engine being released. And that is exactly what people have been asking about in previous threads when the religious answer was given back to them.

So is it to much to ask for engine release status to include a yes/no on the front of the FC must have asset list for engine release being completed or not? Again I am pretty sure there is a list of "must haves" a list of "would really love to have" and the remaining stuff list. I also understand that all the list probably get worked on as there is interrelationship and that is just how complex systems play out. But don't be coy and think we don't understand how large projected get managed.

So the next question is: At a marketing level is the re-balancing effort and new engine tied together? I have said for a long time that this is as close to AO2 as FC will ever get and suspect that this re-balancing effort is tied to engine and vice-versa for those marketing reasons.

My expectation is that FC will make a huge PR push for AO with a possible updated name like "Anarchy Online - End Game" that would include at the launch the new engine with as many assets as possible and the new updated classes fresh out of re-balance and the new starter area as well. Of course that is just speculation but it makes the best marketing sense.

I think you're looking at it from the wrong perspective there, in feeling that the two are explicitly tied together; they aren't. "Releasing the engine" doesn't *depend* on any assets being completed; they would be NICE, and we're certainly going to get as many done as we can, but outside of some of the basics that we've promised (like new bodies/heads, which are mostly done, and a few other things which are all pretty much polished off), there isn't any 'content amount' we have to have finished before we launch the engine. It's more of a "we get as much content done as we *can* before engine launch, and then push out more as we make it over time". There's nothing left, asset-wise, that the engine launch is directly *dependent* on.

Naturally we want as many shinies as we can get, sure, but we're not going to hold the engine *back* from launch just because we wanna get that one last whompah finished; those are things that would be *great* to have at launch, but if we gotta wait for a couple of weeks to patch 'em out then we're not going to let that stop us.

As far as the rebalancing/startup stuff goes, it's our hope to have those together and out on the servers *prior* to engine launch; naturally we'll play those aspects up, I'm sure, but we'd also like to be able to make sure that all of the major *kinks* in those areas & changes are worked out before we start blaring the trumpets and going "HEY GUYS CHECK OUT AO AGAIN" and whatnot - Nothing we haven't stated publicly before, though, and we're still on track for that general plan. Things change, of course, as we're unfortunately all aware of, but that has been and still *is* the plan going forward. =)

[Liamboru]

As a quick commentary on the new content. I am spending my time playing "another game". I decided to do some content that was recommended for 3 players. Hmm, well, I have a pet (damn engi in me will not die, I guess), so that is like 2 people, so I go at it. Wiped, horribly. Been back 4-5 times trying to figure out a good strategy. Only thing I can think of is, level 5-10 times or so and make it easier or get another 1-3 people to do the content like it was "intended".

Although I fear making new content harder to require more players is not smart due to population issues and maybe power creep makes it impossible, I guess I will jump on the bandwagon of those asking for more challenge (an example of the opposite of this would be walking through an entire static that had been "cratified"). I denied that this was what I wanted for some time, but maybe seeing an outside perspective made me realize it actually is exactly what I want.

Oh, and lol, I have only been semi-afk for a month or so and I am already missing AO. Geez, that monkey has a death grip on me.

omg who really cares?

Some do, some do not...nothing new to see here (that last part is ironic, if you think about it, but that is an aside).

[SoapTarder]

Naturally we want as many shinies as we can get, sure, but we're not going to hold the engine *back* from launch just because we wanna get that one last whompah finished; those are things that would be *great* to have at launch, but if we gotta wait for a couple of weeks to patch 'em out then we're not going to let that stop us. )

For those of us that just wanna play AO in the stability and tender warmth of DX9, and aren't so prissy about graphics, its comforting to know that the launch (whenever that occurs) won't be delayed and delayed due to "new engine" artwork not being finish on time.

[Stupidjesse]

First to post from a phone?

no I posted from my droid

[Lheann]

... Wall of Text ...

There was a a lot information in our exchange. That was nice. While not giving any dates it did clear up the release schedule in terms of order of release. Also made it clear that required assets for engine have been "polished off".

So to recap for those that skipped the walls of text:
1. re-balance and new starter area before engine is the plan
2. new heads and bodies with engine along with a few other high impact assets
3. Parsed is still coding on new engine
4. there is some marketing driving the when for engine release
5. avoiding a repeat of AO's original release is highly desired
6. there will be PR/marketing push with this remake in the future after things are smoothed out
7. engine will not be held up for any assets at this point *taken as if a something is highly visible and looks like total crap it will get fixed but the team thinks those bombs are diffused*
8. assets will likely continue to be updated over the long term


Thanks again Kintaii as that was a great deal of info exchanged. Now would you or Means please make a statement about the offical web site. It is so screwed up and it would be ashame to have that front the re-release of AO.

[Spartanx9]

As far as the rebalancing/startup stuff goes, it's our hope to have those together and out on the servers *prior* to engine launch; naturally we'll play those aspects up, I'm sure, but we'd also like to be able to make sure that all of the major *kinks* in those areas & changes are worked out before we start blaring the trumpets and going "HEY GUYS CHECK OUT AO AGAIN" and whatnot - Nothing we haven't stated publicly before, though, and we're still on track for that general plan. Things change, of course, as we're unfortunately all aware of, but that has been and still *is* the plan going forward. =)

How close would you say you guys are to the point where you start yelling for people to check out AO again Kintaii? I'm sure you probably have a a huge wall of text describing all the stuff you want things done, and if it's possible, perhaps a %age of how close you're to that goal

[vallikat]

Oh bah!! I wanted to be the one to point out that Kintaii should be well-prepared for humidity after Mississippi. That's what I get for doing work (i.e., cheating on this forum with other forums) while at work!

[bitnykk]

I was translating Fwm in french on my org forums for almost 3 years ...
No offense, but i won't bother to translate anymore until we endly get serious stuff.