Friday with Means - April 22nd, 2011 - Thank you

[LyrLazarus]

1. Creds are faster earned then Players definitively leave the game!

2. RBP normaly costs 1bill and it is not realy a must have item and i think the most Players do not want to pay more then one time max. creds for one item.

1. The fact that inflation isn't very large proves that you're wrong.

2. Just because people tend to only buy 1 RBP doesn't make it immune to inflation.

[Obtena]

It may not cause inflation, but that doesn't mean it won't have a negative effect on the economy.

People generally use inflation as the "catch all" bad thing that will happen in an economy, but the gist of what they mean is usually NOT inflation.

Actually, I believe it has a positive impact as it's yet another method for those credits from rich people to be distributed for those willing to sell LR as a way to attain wealth. I believe that there are very few instances where the flow of wealth would be considered a bad thing. That's what everyone is complaining about anyways isn't it? That guy has billions when I have millions ... selling LR is DEFINITELY a way to achieve more equalization of credits among the population.

[Dragocze]

Selling of LR is just equivalent of AOC "bind on equip" flag. Item with this flag become nodrop, when is equipped.

[Zeephonz]

Selling of LR is just equivalent of AOC "bind on equip" flag. Item with this flag become nodrop, when is equipped.

No it isn't, Selling lootrights is the same as "Bind on Pickup". "Bind on Equip" does not require the player to be at the body to attain the item.

[Carmo]

Hi ... you said selling LR makes inflation. It doesn't because Selling LR is an exchange of credits for the right to loot and exchanging credits does not cause inflation. Does the economy inflate when you transfer credits from a bank alt to your other characters? No, it doesn't and that's not different from any other credit exchange between two other characters.

The whole point of this is that someone mentioned a reference to how the new encounter could ruin the economy with more inflation because of selling LR, which is pure nonsense if you know what causes inflation in the first place.

If you remember and if you can read then you know this was about someone suggeted to create yesdrop items for this instance!

Iam bored from this descussion. This is like hair splitting it does not help anyone!

[Obtena]

Selling Yesdrops doesn't increase inflation either.

[sultryvoltron]

Actually, I believe it has a positive impact as it's yet another method for those credits from rich people to be distributed for those willing to sell LR as a way to attain wealth. I believe that there are very few instances where the flow of wealth would be considered a bad thing. That's what everyone is complaining about anyways isn't it? That guy has billions when I have millions ... selling LR is DEFINITELY a way to achieve more equalization of credits among the population.

What poor person has the toons, friends, and gear to sell LR to people with a small enough team to make it profitable?

AO isn't entirely like real life. There's alot of things that would be seen by the secular world as good that are very bad in a video game. In my opinion, selling Loot Rights is definitely one of those things.

[RaveDeath]

What poor person has the toons, friends, and gear to sell LR to people with a small enough team to make it profitable?

You ever two manned bosses in Pandemonium?

Two manned Xan?

Three manned Albtraum?

Two manned or soloed Hollow Island?

[sultryvoltron]

You ever two manned bosses in Pandemonium?
Yes
Two manned Xan?
Yes
Three manned Albtraum?
Two-Manned
Two manned or soloed Hollow Island?
No, too boring.

Did I say I was poor and undergeared? Also, I have a Doctor. Lovechild profs can do those things easily. You think a freshly leveled 220 MP would be able to do those things?

[Obtena]

What poor person has the toons, friends, and gear to sell LR to people with a small enough team to make it profitable?

AO isn't entirely like real life. There's alot of things that would be seen by the secular world as good that are very bad in a video game. In my opinion, selling Loot Rights is definitely one of those things.

I'm not sure what that has to do with the discussion. I'm not arguing if a poor person has the same opportunities to earn credits as veterans in the game. It's clear they don't. Of course, it's worth noting that EVERYONE starts this game off with nothing, yet many of us SOMEHOW, end up not being poor, so I don't see the point you are trying to make. Selling lootrights has been in AO since the moment someone could kill a mob that someone else wanted loot from.

[Gatester]

I'm not sure what that has to do with the discussion. I'm not arguing if a poor person has the same opportunities to earn credits as veterans in the game. It's clear they don't. Of course, it's worth noting that EVERYONE starts this game off with nothing, yet many of us SOMEHOW, end up not being poor, so I don't see the point you are trying to make. Selling lootrights has been in AO since the moment someone could kill a mob that someone else wanted loot from.

It was nearly impossible for me to obtain the credits to compete with other players even at the tl5 level, until I had a GA4 fixer (which took me 90mil which I actually borrowed from an orgmate) and took that fixer into s10 soon after mechs were "prevented" from being used there.

I made about 1.5bil credits in profit as well as a set of 225 CC armor and 75 CO armor by solo farming a boss, and before then the most credits I ever had at one time was about 60mil.


Best ways to "not be poor" are generally not playing the game as the devs intended. Sort of like 2 people farming an instance meant for 2 teams and selling the loot rights. That isn't to say there are not standard ways a person can make credits, but generally they are much harder or take significantly more time to accomplish.

[Rurounin]

What I am worried about isn't inflation, I know how this will go if it's a one team thing, in 9/10 cases it will be the same 5-6 teams that gets the boss, this locks users out from getting them. They can farm the boss over and over to let their alts and friends get the items they don't need. Now of course, even if the items was yesdrop they wouldn't sell at first (or sell at extreme prices), but after said 5-6 teams has kept the boss to themselves for a couple of weeks the items would start appearing on the market, because all of their alts and friends already has the items. But at the same time those 5-6 teams might be missing a couple of items, so they continue to hog the encounter.

Let's assume that you can't enter the location after, that you can't sell lootrights, now the same 5-6 teams are deleting nodrops they already have, maybe just to be able to get that 1-2 items they don't have yet. They are deleting items that someone else might be willing to give an arm and leg for (I actually don't know how good or bad the items will be) just because they can't distribute them. While monopolizing the encounter they are deleting items that would be completely uber for someone else.

Now I do realize that this is supposed to be a competetive encounter, but in todays AO the above would be the reality. A perfect team setup would be made that leaves out 8 professions, where 4 would rarely get a team invite at all for the encounter.

These are all assumptions based on almost no facts, they could be dead wrong, but if they are spot on I want FC to be aware of what is likely to happen. If the items that drops in there are better than the current ingame items, and that they alter damage in any way, then the gap between those 5-6 teams will increase, making it even more likely that they would continue to hog it all.

The other scenario is bot involvement like the old pande system and I'd prefer the greedy scenario above before that.

Don't get me wrong, I will most likely love this encounter for the first week even if I don't manage to get to the loot, but one can only have so much patience for failing against teams that will do so much better in PvM. We aren't equal, team setup's aren't equal and to leave out the majority of the playerbase from actually being able to finish an encounter is wrong.

AO is a very competetive game, there's no doubt about that, and just because of that I can even see several faction based scenarios taking place, one side hogging it and refusing to let the other side get to it. Clans on RK1 will do it for sure if they get the chance (it's a perfectly logical and good tactic, it might look bad in our eyes, but clan has the dedication to do this on RK1 and omni doesn't).

While making the items yesdrop wouldn't completely prevent this, it would still open up more options for distributing items though. AO players are greedy and helpful. And I don't mind satisfying that greed by buying the items for large sums of credits if needed. Because I will want those items eventually.

Yet another massive post by me, not sure what's wrong with me, but I'm drawn to writing long and boring texts :S

[Carmo]

OK another FWM will be released soon.

I hope that all this suggestions ans discussions well be considered by stabylizing the economy and designing the new encounter.

If i looking right then not one DEV realy posted something only players where involved to this discussions.

However ... What is about the Agent Nano´s ?

[Obtena]

Best ways to "not be poor" are generally not playing the game as the devs intended. Sort of like 2 people farming an instance meant for 2 teams and selling the loot rights. That isn't to say there are not standard ways a person can make credits, but generally they are much harder or take significantly more time to accomplish.

I don't think that detracts from selling LR though. I have a really hard time thinking that the ability to do so isn't intended.

[Rktim]

Nodrop items are generally a bad idea, you need to have allot of yesdrop items that can change hands to have a healthy economy, especially at endgame...

[Gatester]

I don't think that detracts from selling LR though. I have a really hard time thinking that the ability to do so isn't intended.

The problem is not so much selling the loot rights, but that people can farm an instance for profit with so little effort, ie 2 player teams.

If raids were harder to where more people were necessary, profit making LR groups would be less common because more people would be necessary and selling would be less likely because more people in the groups would likely need the items.

[mawu]

Alternative to making instances harder could be adjusting drop to number of players. Either drop rate modification or have quests 'drop' the rewards.

[Obtena]

The problem is not so much selling the loot rights, but that people can farm an instance for profit with so little effort, ie 2 player teams.

If raids were harder to where more people were necessary, profit making LR groups would be less common because more people would be necessary and selling would be less likely because more people in the groups would likely need the items.

I don't see how that is a problem. That makes selling LR accessible to everyone, not just pimped out org teams, so no one should complain about how unfair it is for people to sell LR. That's a good thing where I sit. We got people selling LR from TOTW to Beast. That's a great thing, not a problem.

[SoapTarder]

many of those places are instanced, the new area won't be. thats a world of difference when it comes to LR selling.

[Soliartist]

Tenth page!

Props for the "competitive stuff".