Nano-Technician Nano Document Discussion Thread

[Nanofat]

So if I read this correct, it is the end of VE spam, when there is a 7s, recharge on AOE's, or am I missing something here?

The only thing you might be missing is that we'll have semi-decent AoE Dots you can keep running alongside a the 7 second spam.

But yeah - to get the AoE "Inferno" we used to be capable of; you'd need to stack a few NTs together. The AOE damage has increased but not enough to make up for the loss from a 7 second recharge.

I think.

As always not sure how solid any of it really is.

[Edta]

The damage/nuke is also increased though. Average DPS from VE drops from 666 to 523. Average DPS from Kels rises from 370 to 621.

The long recharge is similar to how it currently is with Kels. A lot of people currently prefer Kels above VE for kiting (despite the much lower dps) and for a reason: the longer recharge means you can run longer between 2 nukes, so you take more distance from the bunch of enemy mobs and you get hit less often. Personally I prefer using VE since it does more damage and it's more exciting. So with balance, kiting will actually become more boring .

On this topic though, it says "AOE1 5m" --> are they 15m or 5m?
(5m would probably be the end of VE spam yeah :P)

If this doesn't answer your question, can you rephrase it please?

Edit: on top of above calculations: damage from AoE dots
- currently boil blood does 21 dps
- New AoE dots: 81 / 91 dps

So currently we can get 687 dps from VE+boil blood, while this will drop to 604 dps with ve+AoE dot (both situations have similar requirements)
With slightly higher requirements we can cast Kels+higher dot and then it becomes 712 dps which is a bit more then currently.

Note to FC: As a lvl 200 froob, it's not likely I'll be able to cast top 4 AoE dots (only looking at those without expansion lock) with my current setup. Some room for different setups is good, but there is not much use in having a nano with 1211 mc+1211ts requirements available to froobs I guess. Hmm, if you get mochams and wrangle there might be a use I guess. Just throwing this out, in case you didn't notice yourself .

[Gridpain]

649 .. 1402 every 1.54s => 421-910 DPS

2926..4389 every 7s => 418-627 DPS

on high AC mobs, it's not realy a big nerf...

moreover, Kel's playting is 6 sec cast now... so not that hard to insta cast
3479..5219 every 7s => 947-745 DPS

[Kintaii]

On this topic though, it says "AOE1 5m" --> are they 15m or 5m?
(5m would probably be the end of VE spam yeah :P)

They're listed as 15m in the doc (which looks a little funky due to some screwed up formatting), but will be 20m in the next version of the document.

[LyrLazarus]

Is there supposed to be a large drop in nanocost for AOEs after Volcanic Eruption?

[Djiax]

Taking min dmg, and for a 220, you goin from 400ish DPS with VE to 1/1.1K with Masta's ... That's rather super cool for a large panel of things, from DPSing like a mad in APF (really like a mad), to powerlvling your alts in inferno outdoor, to farming any large quantities of mob anywhere, kiting alappa, w/e.

It gonna give a us a nice niche in PvM. More then doubling the DPS makes (actually, with the aknowledged increase in nanodmg setup, that gonna be 3x the dmg) viable to kite higher lvl mob that wasn't viable before because it would take you 20 min per pull.

This rocks . I started my 1st froob NT after seeing big papas kiting borgs in PW afterall. Kiting is freedom.

[Gridpain]

I think the nano cost of Kel's plaything is a typo

[Kintaii]

Yeah, I think there's some funkyness going on with the AoE nanocosts - Looks like they didn't all get scaled properly. I'll make sure Genele knows and it gets fixed before the next version is out.

[Rktim]

NTs get to much attention IMO :3

[Obtena]

I'm glad they got this much attention. Their toolset was an absolute mess.

[LyrLazarus]

Nerf level locks on AOEs

[Nanofat]

NTs get to much attention IMO :3

Its because we're that much better than the rest of you peasants!
Muwahahaha!

j/k

I'm glad they got this much attention. Their toolset was an absolute mess.

I couldn't agree more with this. The best part about this i think is they've removed some of the terrible mistakes of the past (Triples/Double and NBS) while reworking our very nature as a profession to still give us a diverse set of tools and tricks. I just hope they all turn out to be as useful as i can imagine.

I believe there are probably brand new mistakes to come but atleast this significant departure from the past promises that interesting things are happening.

[Pyroatheist]

I'd like to bring up a point that was touched upon a while back, and seems to have gotten buried in the hubbub since then.

The changes are completely removing all unique effects from the RK nanos, think debuff from CoF, stun from EC, evade debuffs from a line of gravitational anomaly nukes, as well as different NR % checks from different nukes, thinking of how you could always use Ol' Faithful to get a good hit on a high nr char, due to its low NR% check.

All these are gone, and what is given to NTs to replace this loss is the burst system....except in its current implementation the burst system is not available to froobs, who actually suffer the most from this, since ALL the differences in their nukes have been removed.

Froobs need to have access to at the VERY LEAST the first 2 levels of burst, and possibly 1 or 2 higher, available through various quests or w/e. This is the bare minimum necessary to make up the loss of unique effects on the current RK nukes that froobs are losing.

[DecemberSky]

Kintaii has already mentioned the possbility of a froob cyberdeck a few pages back. No confirmation, though.

[Pyroatheist]

Kintaii has already mentioned the possbility of a froob cyberdeck a few pages back. No confirmation, though.

Yep, I know. The lack of confirmation about anything was why I brought it up again, I felt that seeing as it is a point of utmost important for every froob NT, it deserved to be touched upon again.

[Nanofat]

Yep, I know. The lack of confirmation about anything was why I brought it up again, I felt that seeing as it is a point of utmost important for every froob NT, it deserved to be touched upon again.

Every time I see some combination of the words "for froobs" with/without specifiers I always think.

"Tease them into buying the game damnit!"

Its a little off topic to mention - but imo AO does a poor job of tempting froobs to join the ranks.

Take an NT example from this new balance document - NS castable on Froobs.

Current Situation:
They don't know what NS really is; can't miss what you don't have / don't ask for, they exclude it from their calculations without batting an eye.

Proposed Situation:
Froobs will be able to Recieve NS - but not cast it. Meaning they'll just pester anyone with a cyberdeck for it - factor it into their calculations and be on their merry way.

The Tease Situation:
Froobs will be able to Recieve NS - but not cast it. But it will only be HALF AS GOOD +10/10 and will be obviously so. "Advanced Program Limited" text floating over their head every time its cast on them or something. A reminder every damn time that they could be getting more if they'd just pony up the cash.

If we do give them cyberdecks - how exactly would it tease them? How about it looks worse - has a name which suggests its not the best they could have (if they only paid)
Would we make sure they get their hands somehow on a SL Cyberdeck they would have to pay for; as a temptation? Reward!... but you can't use it... that sort of thing.

I've no problem with giving Froobs something - so long as its only ever and overtly seems like Half (or just less) of a much greater thing.

All this nano rebalancing seems like a perfect time to install more Temptation.

[Pyroatheist]

Every time I see some combination of the words "for froobs" with/without specifiers I always think.

"Tease them into buying the game damnit!"

Its a little off topic to mention - but imo AO does a poor job of tempting froobs to join the ranks.

Take an NT example from this new balance document - NS castable on Froobs.

Current Situation:
They don't know what NS really is; can't miss what you don't have / don't ask for, they exclude it from their calculations without batting an eye.

Proposed Situation:
Froobs will be able to Recieve NS - but not cast it. Meaning they'll just pester anyone with a cyberdeck for it - factor it into their calculations and be on their merry way.

The Tease Situation:
Froobs will be able to Recieve NS - but not cast it. But it will only be HALF AS GOOD +10/10 and will be obviously so. "Advanced Program Limited" text floating over their head every time its cast on them or something. A reminder every damn time that they could be getting more if they'd just pony up the cash.

If we do give them cyberdecks - how exactly would it tease them? How about it looks worse - has a name which suggests its not the best they could have (if they only paid)
Would we make sure they get their hands somehow on a SL Cyberdeck they would have to pay for; as a temptation? Reward!... but you can't use it... that sort of thing.

I've no problem with giving Froobs something - so long as its only ever and overtly seems like Half (or just less) of a much greater thing.

All this nano rebalancing seems like a perfect time to install more Temptation.

While I understand where you are coming from, youve got several things that just don't make sense.

First, you use the example of NS as an instance in where froobs don't have it, they exclude it from their calcs without batting an eye, and they don't worry about it. However, this is a simply ridiculous assumption. When a froob is looking for buffing items on auno, and they have to scroll past pages of AI and LE huds and AI armor and all that other nifty ****, you do you really think they aren't going "DAMN! If I could use all that stuff, this would be so much easier, and I could twink so much better if I had those items." That happens all the time.

HOWEVER....This whole argument is 100% besides the point. If you had actually read my post, you'd have realized the key reasoning behind this need. Currently, RK nanos have lots of interesting and useful unique affects when you cast them. All of these are being removed. The replacement for these is the burst ability, but currently froobs are unable to access it, and they have the most to lose, since they are the only ones that are locked to ONLY using these unique RK nanos. Therefor, as a way of compensation for what they are losing, it is absolutely necessary that froobs get some form of the burst ability.

[Lliers]

Well, I hate to get sucked into what is going to potentially a flame war, I just wanted to make my suggestion once again about NS.

Having a froob NT, I know full well how difficult life is without NS (currently frustrated by how to get 5/5 Illusionist cloak on a solitus froob without org contracts). If there's gonna be froob NTs (and there will, and I'm one), then I agree there should be some enticement for getting expansions and also for taking advantage of the froob population. I have mentioned in a couple of other threads that I think NS should be *castable* by froobs but *not* *receivable* by froobs. I agree that NS is a pretty good carrot to put in front of froobs, but I can't tell you how often I get asked for NS, and I would love to be able to help out SL players.

I will miss all the specials on NT nukes, and I plan on spending my retirement at the Old Athen grid exit dispensing PNH and IOR gratis.

[Nanofat]

While I understand where you are coming from, youve got several things that just don't make sense.

First, you use the example of NS as an instance in where froobs don't have it, they exclude it from their calcs without batting an eye, and they don't worry about it. However, this is a simply ridiculous assumption. When a froob is looking for buffing items on auno, and they have to scroll past pages of AI and LE huds and AI armor and all that other nifty ****, you do you really think they aren't going "DAMN! If I could use all that stuff, this would be so much easier, and I could twink so much better if I had those items." That happens all the time.

Trust me, i spend a lot of time with froobs who's initial intention to play just for free; isn't swayed by the huge chunk of items in auno they can't have. "its worth 200m, i have 0.2" usually kills their enthusiams dead.
I've spent time with literally hundreds of froob NTs who quickly realise their limits and work within them - therefore don't really expose themselves to any temptation.
My complaint was directly squarely at the game itself because in most cases it dosn't tease them either.

HOWEVER....This whole argument is 100% besides the point. If you had actually read my post, you'd have realized the key reasoning behind this need. Currently, RK nanos have lots of interesting and useful unique affects when you cast them. All of these are being removed. The replacement for these is the burst ability, but currently froobs are unable to access it, and they have the most to lose, since they are the only ones that are locked to ONLY using these unique RK nanos. Therefor, as a way of compensation for what they are losing, it is absolutely necessary that froobs get some form of the burst ability.

Oh Indeed - i don't mean to say don't do it. By all means, its just an issue like this always remind me of the "argument" i have with AO- you're about to give something to froobs which if implimented one way, would give the apparent appearence of a perfectly complete, useful and working feature which in no way would be obviously improved with the expansions.
Then you've missed the oppertunity to entice people into buying the game.

S'all i'm saying since this new NS change is a perfect example of what i mean, a missed oppertunity to remind people every time they twink of what they could have so easily for $$.

[Agentkay]

btw, shouldnt cold dmg burst nuke debuff runspeed?

I actually would like one of the burst debuff runspeed snare effects. It makes solo nuking pvm easier.

May be remove the debuff evades, since it doesnt benefit cyberdecks NT.