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Thread: Nano-Technician Nano Document Discussion Thread

  1. #261
    I think I ve understood the NS1 + mega taunt role...

    just check how long a boss is imune to LMN from crat...
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  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by ArienSky View Post

    so no, I think comparing bullets to nano is unreasonable as comparing heat to electricity.
    You can use electricity for A LOT of things, while heat can only be used for warmth.
    They are both measured in watt though, and electricity -can- be used for heating.
    -Ariensky
    Wow, that has to be the worst example I've seen.. Do you know how we generate most of the electric power in the world today? From heat!
    Good post otherwise, but really poor example..
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  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyroatheist View Post
    Hm, that may very well be, and actually based on current nano information that is available from the database, it is actually much more likely than the ability to buy it with VP. However, a conclusive answer from a dev would be much more satisfying in this regard than player speculation...
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    Just to quell the speculation, the V.P. actually stands for Visual Profession. We accidentally left that column in, and should have removed it as it is purely placeholder. It's easier to format the document with the field already there (plus it helps in tracking the old nanos), but none of the Visual Profession information in the Sheet 2 "pink field" changed nanos is neccessicarly "correct" in any way, shape, or form.

    I wanna repeat that, 'cause I know people are gonna end up reading this: It is *purely* placeholder and does not in any fashion represent what will be FPable by Agents in the future. Like, not in the slightest. Most of the entries there are the results of rampant copy/pasting in the document while making alterations. ;P So seriously - As of now, the V.P. column really represents nothing.

    We'll let you guys know when it does. =D
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  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Shrubberyman View Post
    Have I been drinking recently, or aren't the nanocost caps supposed to be 55% for NMs, 50% for soli/opi and 45% for Troxes?

    Whatever the case, I rest to my case :

    1) There is no way we should run out of nano just nuking and debuffing. No way.

    2) Evade nano should be renamed, wtf is Umbral doing in my nano sheet...

    PS : analyzing work still in progress.
    I used 60% in my calculations, because I seem to remember hearing something about nanocost reduction caps being changed, but more so to highlight a VERY VERY extreme case of judicial nanopool use in order to make my point more clear.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by SultryVoltron View Post
    Here.
    Awesome, thanks.

  6. #266
    Well, since we seem to be at more or less of a final conclusion to a long, drawn out battle of trolls, flames, circlejerks, and finally some reason, is there any possibility of a dev stopping by to actually notice the fact that we have conclusively demonstrated the nanocost of the proposed nanos in the doc is obscenely large and needs to be changed?

  7. #267
    Are we forgetting that NTs will have normal attacks that dont use nano and do average dps on top of nukes?

    I just assumed that those where there to make up for the nano cost/running out of nano thing... -.^

    Aka you are not supposed to actually spam nukes all day long... ^.-
    Rktim - 220/70/30 Omni Soldier.
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    Messiah has spoken.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyroatheist View Post
    Well, since we seem to be at more or less of a final conclusion to a long, drawn out battle of trolls, flames, circlejerks, and finally some reason, is there any possibility of a dev stopping by to actually notice the fact that we have conclusively demonstrated the nanocost of the proposed nanos in the doc is obscenely large and needs to be changed?
    We've already gotten an acknowledgement that this is an area that is subject to change.

    Compare to for instance Rift, a game I've been playing recently. I specced into an insanely offensive firemage, and can do DPS that makes others cry, as well as have a few emergency shields. Nanocost is something like 10-30 mana pr. spell, and I have about 1800 mana. However, in that game there's close to no in-combat mana regeneration, there are potions that restore a little, and I have a spell that converts HP into mana (and another which channels something called charge, which you get by nuking, into health) this means I can keep up casting for quite a long time, but after a few encounters I need to spend a few seconds to heal my mana up to full. Downtime is very short, but it's there, and means I have to be careful about which targets I choose, or if it's a long fight, spend my mana in a way that makes sense, so I don't have to spend too much time converting HP into mana and charge into HP.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 29, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
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    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

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  9. #269
    vp column = visual profession

    *nvm, i see that's been pointed out ^^
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  10. #270
    that makes me sad face =p

    I will add something to the question/concerns area about Nullity Sphere nanos being too sparse. They are too crucial to an NT's survival to be as rare as they are now.
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  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by DecemberSky View Post
    I will add something to the question/concerns area about Nullity Sphere nanos being too sparse. They are too crucial to an NT's survival to be as rare as they are now.
    Bump, that should help a lot of ppl
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
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  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by DecemberSky View Post
    that makes me sad face =p

    I will add something to the question/concerns area about Nullity Sphere nanos being too sparse. They are too crucial to an NT's survival to be as rare as they are now.
    bump, Root, calm and blind are not "offensive" nanos ... they are primary defensive stuff.

    I would have liked NR debuff nukes to be usebable under NS too, but considering that they debuff for a trivial amount and they have a 10 seconds cool down >< ... it doesnt matter much.
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  13. #273

    Funcom employee

    No, no, I know they're hard to find and we'll make sure they're a bit easier to get ahold of in the future. =)
    Brad L. McAtee / Kintaii
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    (2007 - 2012)
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  14. #274
    Yo, Kintaii, what about you stop the debate about this whole nano cost and nano pool managment ?

    Is it :

    - A design choice - NT are supposed to run out of nano even when just chain casting their programs. Other things that we might not realise right now will make up for that weakness (overall powerfulness of all our tool ? just a possible explanation)

    - A numbers-ain't-right-yet thing, which is easy to fix, and will be ; NT shall not run out of nano if using all their tool and just chain casting nanoprogram - NT shall run out of nano after NS2 use however, or whenever an ennemy starts draining a NT's nanopool, since that would be the little thing that d break nano pool balance.
    Last edited by Djiax; Apr 6th, 2011 at 15:42:09.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Shrubberyman View Post
    Have I been drinking recently, or aren't the nanocost caps supposed to be 55% for NMs, 50% for soli/opi and 45% for Troxes?

    Whatever the case, I rest to my case :

    1) There is no way we should run out of nano just nuking and debuffing. No way.
    .
    As far as I know, those nanocost caps are correct and I haven't read anything (I don't join the IRC or follow individual twitters personally) stating they would be changed.

    As for nuking constantly: every other profession is getting slowed down in terms of pvp, and keeping an offense as high as an NT's is (perceived to be) at all time then hitting a button that ignores almost 100% of damage dealt until your nanopool expires still strikes me as being too much. You might not, playing an NT and all. You'd cry for sure if shades could SA/backstab and use their final 3 PM perks to no end with 1 sec global cooldown and 4 second local cooldown. Just because our nanopool is our means of doing anything does not mean that we should be that much of a wrecking ball in pvp. Kintaii is staying out of this for some odd reason and I blame him for not explaining ;o

    With an NT's offense, as so far as we see, keeping the pressure up that high then having access to their full DtN would be stupid. It's a compromise and it looks like most of the people in here aren't willing to accept the changes.

    Also, yes, it doesn't translate into 1:1 nano/perk/specials comparison but this is what you have, so deal with it being compared to that. You're not supposed to operate solo in pvp or endgame pvm, so it is up to YOU to manage your nanopool or YOU to team with something that can help with it. So far, again, Kintaii is staying out of it for some odd reason.

    Again, unless someone comes in here and says "nono we got it all wrong" or something to that effect, I'm just adjusting and being positive on what we have thus far (I am, and have said, also excited about the prospects of this in that I'd much more prefer a challenge than having lolmode activated).

    If "they" come in and say that NTs will basically have everything you want from them, I'm not going to complain (I'd honestly just find something else to do with my NT, unless it really wouldn't be so cheap). I'm sticking to what the devs have planned and have said thus far, and like everyone else, trying to interpret nerfs on what little they have given.

  16. #276

    Funcom employee

    Quote Originally Posted by Djiax View Post
    Yo, Kintaii, what about you stop the debate about this whole nano cost and nano pool managment ?

    Is it :

    - A design choice - NT are supposed to run out of nano even when just chain casting their programs. Other things that we might not realise right now will make up for that weakness (overall powerfulness of all our tool ? just a possible explanation)

    - A numbers-ain't-right-yet thing, which is easy to fix, and will be ; NT shall not run out of nano if using all their tool and just chain casting nanoprogram - NT shall run out of nano after NS2 use however, or whenever an ennemy starts draining a NT's nanopool, since that would be the little thing that d break nano pool balance.
    It's all of the above. :P I mean, again, we can't sit here and say the numbers are "right" any more than you guys do - We *do* want NTs to feel more of a nano crunch than they do right now, same for every other casting profession. Do we want everyone running out of nano every two minutes though? No.

    You guys get the intent of what we're going through with what we've released - That nano will, in the future, be much more of a resource than it is now (and anyone who goes to tell me that people are already having issues with nano management can try sellin' that snake oil to somebody else - there isn't a casting profession in AO I haven't played and I know better :P [yes yes i know i know i cannot say that as a blanket statement but you know what i mean stop trying to nitpick me ;P]). That doesn't mean, however, that the severity of said resource management is going to be as bad as it currently seems.

    And, as I've said on NS2, we haven't hit the mark there yet - One thing we were looking at was applying a -100% nanocost reduction on the shield (meaning that getting hit would drain your nano under NS2 but your own nanocasting would not), but unfortunately that's yet another one of those "great ideas, can't due to code" things. >< We've got a couple of other ideas floating around for the shield which will help with nanopool management while under its effects, but they're all kinda waiting on other potential code/system changes before I make 'em known so we'll see what happens there.

    But yes - We want people to have to manage their nanopool and keep an eye on it; this is true for all professions which have a heavy focus on nanocasting. It's a bad idea, though, to be getting yourselves worried and worked up over calculations that are including things *which are going to be changed* - Itemization is still coming, same with research, and the revamped perk document is going to be... very, very different from what's out there now. So while it's ok to bring it up as a concern, please don't start pulling out "Well according to my AUNO setup with this sheet I won't be able to cast any nanos after 29 seconds of chaincasting!!1!" because you're building your entire theory off of stuff that's not really relevant in discussing these documents. Trust me, you'll all be a lot happier and less stressed if you do.
    Brad L. McAtee / Kintaii
    Former Senior AO Designer & Jack of All Trades
    (2007 - 2012)
    ~~ Twitter :: Facebook :: Norse Noir ~~

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    Do we want everyone running out of nano every two minutes though? No.
    There everyone has it. Right there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    You guys get the intent of what we're going through with what we've released - That nano will, in the future, be much more of a resource than it is now
    There I had it. Right there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    That doesn't mean, however, that the severity of said resource management is going to be as bad as it currently seems.
    You guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    And, as I've said on NS2, we haven't hit the mark there yet - One thing we were looking at was applying a -100% nanocost reduction on the shield (meaning that getting hit would drain your nano under NS2 but your own nanocasting would not), but unfortunately that's yet another one of those "great ideas, can't due to code" things. >< We've got a couple of other ideas floating around for the shield which will help with nanopool management while under its effects, but they're all kinda waiting on other potential code/system changes before I make 'em known so we'll see what happens there.
    You. Also nice on the NS2 remark and maybe it'll sweeten the pot for all the rest in this thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    But yes - We want people to have to manage their nanopool and keep an eye on it; this is true for all professions which have a heavy focus on nanocasting.
    Me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    It's a bad idea, though, to be getting yourselves worried and worked up over calculations that are including things *which are going to be changed* - Itemization is still coming, same with research, and the revamped perk document is going to be... very, very different from what's out there now. So while it's ok to bring it up as a concern, please don't start pulling out "Well according to my AUNO setup with this sheet I won't be able to cast any nanos after 29 seconds of chaincasting!!1!" because you're building your entire theory off of stuff that's not really relevant in discussing these documents. Trust me, you'll all be a lot happier and less stressed if you do.
    Me again.

    All happy? He's said you have to worry about your nanopool, yes, as I've been saying should be. He's also said don't worry about 2 minutes of chain nuking and being spent dry, or at least alludes to the idea that after going dry you'll have options.

  18. #278

    Funcom employee

    I'll also note, for the record, that "two minutes" is hyperbolic - If you guys end up running out of nano at the 1m59s mark then don't go all Blackmanes on the previous quote. :P
    Brad L. McAtee / Kintaii
    Former Senior AO Designer & Jack of All Trades
    (2007 - 2012)
    ~~ Twitter :: Facebook :: Norse Noir ~~

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    I'll also note, for the record, that "two minutes" is hyperbolic - If you guys end up running out of nano at the 1m59s mark then don't go all Blackmanes on the previous quote. :P
    -.-

    You guys control nanocosts and have all the information for what sort of nano regains we can get, if you say you don't think we should run out of nano in two minutes, it isn't hard for you to make sure that doesn't happen :P

    Also, if it were to ever happen that we could run out of nano in like 2 minutes or some other short amount of time, it would seem to me that you guys would be making our nanocosts very high to "compensate" for the fact that we have higher nano regain than other profs. If you're going to do that, please get rid of all our perk lines that give nano regain, lower our nanocosts accordingly, so that we can at least put those perks into useful lines.
    Last edited by LyrLazarus; Apr 6th, 2011 at 17:07:13.

  20. #280

    Funcom employee

    I'm not the guy who makes those numbers, so no I'm not the one who makes sure that doesn't happen. ;P I just report what I know in the interest of keeping up communication - Outside of that, I don't decide jack around here.
    Brad L. McAtee / Kintaii
    Former Senior AO Designer & Jack of All Trades
    (2007 - 2012)
    ~~ Twitter :: Facebook :: Norse Noir ~~

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