Nerf AO

[edmaster3]

Your argument is that your 220 Adv in full combined is fine with slightly sub-optimal symbs? I wonder if the same would be true for a 220 MP or similarly less favored profession. In any case, there will still be a vast disparity between the haves (those who got their farming largely done with the difficulty as it is now) and the have nots (those who didn't). And ironically, the only ones realistically capable of farming endgame gear after such a change will be those that already have it.

Finally someone makes sense, Its like listening to a lot of old people complaining about how back in the day everything was so hard, and how now everything is so easy.
You know how the heck pearls made getting creds so hard, and the many exploits that made everything so hard. (Sarcastic)
AO has only been giving you old players what yall wanted. No one is going to benefit from nerfing damage and survivability for players. The Have's will still just pocket kite, while everyone else suffers. If everything is so easy try starting over on a new server and not transfer creds, or get your friend to do everything for you.

AO had a choice awhile ago, keep the old fogies (who will find a way to make anything new easier) happy or try help everyone else, We all know what choice the made. With the rebalanced they have that choice again. Hope they are smarter this time.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Your argument is that your 220 Adv in full combined is fine with slightly sub-optimal symbs? I wonder if the same would be true for a 220 MP or similarly less favored profession. In any case, there will still be a vast disparity between the haves (those who got their farming largely done with the difficulty as it is now) and the have nots (those who didn't). And ironically, the only ones realistically capable of farming endgame gear after such a change will be those that already have it.

no. Thats the point. It's not farmable by individuals NOW, so, why would it be after?

The point isn't (and never was) to have individually farmable endgame instances.

Most of the posters agree that pande needs to change, so, the bigger point of the matter is that if it's harder, more people will do it again.

More people doing it=more opportunities to go.

Don't say that more people going means more competition. thats garbage. There's always people who need stuff, people who go for other stuff, and people who go just for fun... (if the raid was fan again, there would be more of this) and if you don't want to raid, farm credits and buy your boc.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Finally someone makes sense, Its like listening to a lot of old people complaining about how back in the day everything was so hard, and how now everything is so easy.
You know how the heck pearls made getting creds so hard, and the many exploits that made everything so hard. (Sarcastic)
AO has only been giving you old players what yall wanted. No one is going to benefit from nerfing damage and survivability for players. The Have's will still just pocket kite, while everyone else suffers. If everything is so easy try starting over on a new server and not transfer creds, or get your friend to do everything for you.

AO had a choice awhile ago, keep the old fogies (who will find a way to make anything new easier) happy or try help everyone else, We all know what choice the made. With the rebalanced they have that choice again. Hope they are smarter this time.

this is bullsh*t. I started a new toon on RK1, and by level 150, I had roughyl 250m worth of equip, and a fully functioning toon. And that was what I put together in the time it took me to level to 150... and I haven't even started farming S10.

[Structure]

You guys might think it's a noble cause, but it would ruin the game for many, many more players than the few grumpy and jaded vets that it pleased (who would probably just come onto the forums and whine about it anyway). In fact I feel this way about the rebalance as a whole, but thats not the topic at hand. This is a game where no matter what, people will take a shortcut if there is one. The easiest way to do something, no matter how boring or uninvolved, is often thought of as 'the' way to do something. What makes anyone think making everything harder and by extension more time consuming will be embraced by the community?

And the sentiment that those that have everything already would be at a great advantage is absolutely correct, and mostly these are the people that ask for this sort of change, apparently bored with the game. You can't get to endgame, max everything out, and spend time twinking on top equipment, and then complain 'oh I'm too powerful, nerf everybody please'.

[Obtena]

this is bullsh*t. I started a new toon on RK1, and by level 150, I had roughyl 250m worth of equip, and a fully functioning toon. And that was what I put together in the time it took me to level to 150... and I haven't even started farming S10.

Yeah, because you know how the game works. You definitely have that as an edge over anyone that is starting out. He's right though in a sense. The veterans that have played over the years are in a way better position to adapt for the things that are going to change than someone who is new and starting out. In addition, it's not the new guy wanting these changes. Really, all this rebalancing is focused on the players that have been around, it has to be if it's going to make sense. The new guy just doesn't have the experience.

I read the first post. I'm not sure it fixes alot. It would definitely shake up the hourglass, but it's still the same sand in there. It would fall different but would that make it better or worse? I don't think anyone could claim that from the mile high view of the game. I don't think the premise for these changes should be to allow the itemization some breathing space. The game doesn't need more power creep.

The most significant point you make is for AC holes. I'm not sure why this was abandoned. It's a decent enough concept but I think practically, there isn't alot of gain for the effort to make it work.

[sultryvoltron]

Yeah, because you know how the game works. You definitely have that as an edge over anyone that is starting out. He's right though in a sense. The veterans that have played over the years are in a way better position to adapt for the things that are going to change than someone who is new and starting out. In addition, it's not the new guy wanting these changes. Really, all this rebalancing is focused on the players that have been around, it has to be if it's going to make sense. The new guy just doesn't have the experience.

I read the first post. I'm not sure it fixes alot. It would definitely shake up the hourglass, but it's still the same sand in there. It would fall different but would that make it better or worse? I don't think anyone could claim that from the mile high view of the game. I don't think the premise for these changes should be to allow the itemization some breathing space. The game doesn't need more power creep.

The most significant point you make is for AC holes. I'm not sure why this was abandoned. It's a decent enough concept but I think practically, there isn't alot of gain for the effort to make it work.

They wouldn't know the difference.

[Camar]

You're wrong. I'm not gonna bother explaining it.

None of his suggestions would fix anything, except maybe for the AC holes, that I would kinda like.

You would basically kill all rebalancing efforts done so far, each document would have to start from scratch because of the new situation. Newcomers still wouldn't have any chance to get endgame phatz, as it would be firmly in control of bots and big orgs again, like it was before.

Either you would have to restart completely, or a lot of people would have a tremendous advantage over newcomers. If you delete/unequip some already acquired stuff, better prepare for some ragequits.

So yeah, this would kill the game for all but a few Vets

[Animistic]

Bump for AC holes. I always liked with Ely and Ado hecks how you could have fun with projectile and chemical weapons with em. Not hitting min damage using such damage types. Would make it intresting if certain weapons shined in certain situations. Might aswell add it more to PVP too, instead of just lowbie pvp where carb and predator have their bit weaker ACs, at higher levels it doesnt seem to matter at all.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Yeah, because you know how the game works. You definitely have that as an edge over anyone that is starting out. He's right though in a sense. The veterans that have played over the years are in a way better position to adapt for the things that are going to change than someone who is new and starting out. In addition, it's not the new guy wanting these changes. Really, all this rebalancing is focused on the players that have been around, it has to be if it's going to make sense. The new guy just doesn't have the experience.

I read the first post. I'm not sure it fixes alot. It would definitely shake up the hourglass, but it's still the same sand in there. It would fall different but would that make it better or worse? I don't think anyone could claim that from the mile high view of the game. I don't think the premise for these changes should be to allow the itemization some breathing space. The game doesn't need more power creep.

The most significant point you make is for AC holes. I'm not sure why this was abandoned. It's a decent enough concept but I think practically, there isn't alot of gain for the effort to make it work.

I agree. But, the point of reducing AAO/AAD/Add dmg, isn't in theory to reduce dependency on certain armour sets, etc. The point is to roll back the power creep.

Reducing armour stats is REDUCING power creep, not adding to it.

[Obtena]

The power creep is relative so it doesn't matter what the absolute values on the AAO and AAD are. Yes there is a subtly with AR affecting damage past 1K, depending on your profession, but that's not related to chance to hit.

Really, nerfing AAO and AAD and equal amount across the board ... does an insignificant effect on the game and wouldn't accomplish much more than just making some work for the devs. Change one, or the other, not both. But if you do change both, certainly not the same amount.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

The power creep is relative so it doesn't matter what the absolute values on the AAO and AAD are. Yes there is a subtly with AR affecting damage past 1K, depending on your profession, but that's not related to chance to hit.

Really, nerfing AAO and AAD and equal amount across the board ... does an insignificant effect on the game and wouldn't accomplish much more than just making some work for the devs. Change one, or the other, not both. But if you do change both, certainly not the same amount.

I agree it wouldn't change much.

I didn't suggest it to have it be taken to the word, I said it to remind the devs that there is the potential to reduce power creep, by rolling back some change...

Anyways, I'm not sure if reducing AAD/AAO is the answer, I thought it would be interesting to discuss, and it has been. My opinion is that there is still too much add damage available in game. What we get through implants and symbs is one thing, but, once you add in Dchest, RBP, arul sabas, 300 sentient turrets, DB1/2, 12man buffs, purple hud, 6 pieces of CC, token boards, buffs, Perks, perk modifiers, auras... etc. it gets to be too much.

damage dealing ability has been skewed heavily to those who have more attacks available and especially to those who have multiple hits per shot (burst, FA although FA starts capping at 120 and never gets any better.

[Obtena]

I think their is already some murmurs of the devs looking at the AAO/AAD situation. Admittedly, I think it's out of control and the AAD on some items don't make sense. It does enable some ridiculous situations (like evading enfos).

The add damage I don't have a problem with. It's not breaking PVM in the sense that profs that load up on it can solo things that they normally couldn't. Usually add damage builds go SPLAT or make their owners have problems in other ways, like equipping or casting.

In PVP, there are alot of sacrifices people have to make to get alot of add damage and TBH, I don't see people with those builds being very successful in PVP.

[sultryvoltron]

In PVP, there are alot of sacrifices people have to make to get alot of add damage and TBH, I don't see people with those builds being very successful in PVP.

Yeah, DB1/2 and 12M takes SOOOOO much out of me.

I do agree it's out of control, and I pointed out before the huge discrepency between available AAO and available AAD. Really though, I hope FC can make a gradiant damage scale for perk defense checks instead of a binary check. That would solve so many problems, including the specific Enf problem you identified.

[Obtena]

Those instance buffs don't make your add damage OPed for PVP so I don't have a clue what your point is.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Those instance buffs don't make your add damage OPed for PVP so I don't have a clue what your point is.

I'm not sure I agree with this.

400 add dmg is like doubling what you have with EVERYTHING running, if youre a soldier, fixer, advy or keeper.


But, 400 add dmg selfed isn't OP'd? come on.

Look, you add 400 add dmg to what you get selfed on a fixer/soldier, and all of a sudden your onehander is hitting 800 dmg normals.

how is that not ?

[Weltall]

Capping AS, SA, FA, burst much more regularly isn't OP'd? :/

[sultryvoltron]

Those instance buffs don't make your add damage OPed for PVP so I don't have a clue what your point is.

Seriously?

[Johnnykay]

I agree. Froobs and Expansion players should be on equal footing. Sure to boost sub revenue.

[sultryvoltron]

I agree. Froobs and Expansion players should be on equal footing. Sure to boost sub revenue.

Seriously?

[-yeny-]

imo db+12m buffs should be removed... atleast from pvp. it´s annoying to get them on 2-3 chars all the time running. and they make a difference in pvp ofc. it´s an awesome boost for everyone with onehander. i´d like to pvp on "same lvl" without those "needed" buffs.