New Doctor Nano Document!

[Lazy]

no.
stop analyzing new nanodocuments how they would work with current game mechanics. thats just pointless because you wont be able to do that not before or after rebalance.

and why you want to already analyze docs pvp performance anyway if you have absolutely no clue how other professions will work in future?

was referring to the state of current pvp, as that is clearly what the previous poster was referring to when saying "docs don't run out of nano and are thus immortal" l2r please

[Otansaanpas]

was referring to the state of current pvp, as that is clearly what the previous poster was referring to when saying "docs don't run out of nano and are thus immortal" l2r please

sorry i was staying on topic and not telling how things are now.

[Shrubberyman]

You forgot the part where the doctor won't kill anyone with AS spam and perks though.

Outside of the lulzy AS we have and the 80% def check perks for those docs with pistols we have no way of doing damage to anyone while healing ourselves.

Cmon Jax, have you seen Induna PvP lately?...

[Kazeran]

Cmon Jax, have you seen Induna PvP lately?...

No, sadly most pvp doctors on rk2 are clan so I don't often get to feel the effects of a pvp setup doc aside from the lol procs that love to land when using specials.

(Note: Iam all for getting AS out of doctors hands but our toolset needs to land reliable first before that happens)

[Lazy]

merp herp derp.

yeah my bad. i missed that bit where they gave unstunnable perks to doctors in the perk changes documents that came out way back when.

[Edta]

About doctors currently not running out of nano... I know that because I've been told they don't need the pnh/ior after I ninja-buffed them. I probably heard that more often from 220's then I heard 220's asking me for pnh... I don't want my buffs to be useless. When it's a 220 I usually ninja-buff layers/dark movement instead nowadays... I gladly believe that - in a 220-world - the only guys with more nano-issues then doctors are a buffing-keeper and a NBGing-NT. It remains a fact that 220's, docs included, rarely run out of nano; especially if you compare them to lower levels.

About some of you not getting buffs from your teammates... did you ask for them? If not, people will assume you don't need them and they won't have the buff take up your NCU. In froob raids and teams, I know docs would love a pnh/ior so I'll always buff them (if I'm confused or busy, they might have to ask for it ) and I'll give them a priority since I know how important 'docs having nano' is for keeping the tank alive .
So if you don't get buffs, it probably is because it's not so needed right now, though of course it's also possible that you had bad team mates or that paying money to FC automatically turns NT's (or whatever prof you want buffs from) into pricks .

[Ayria]

About doctors currently not running out of nano... I know that because I've been told they don't need the pnh/ior after I ninja-buffed them.

IOR is probably because we can cap -cost easily enough by 220 that wasting the NCU on a buff for more that won't affect anything is.. well, useless.

PNH, I never turn it down, don't see why someone would. There are activities that don't drain our nano so much, avoiding the use of DoTs is certainly one of em. When's the last time you saw a Doctor use their DoTs in a Pande raid or when doing Collector or APF or BS etc?

Even without Malp, in a duel that lasted about 4-5 minutes, I ran out of nano.

That we last that long is part of the job, we're Doctors for crying out loud. What about "THEY'RE HEALERS" screams "THEY DIE FAST"? Ya, the fight's gona be long if you get into one with us, and it's going to be a war of attrition.

Just because Funcom wants all fights to be done in 0.0001 seconds doesn't mean they should, imo, and just because Doctors don't die (from lack of nano to heal with) that quickly doesn't mean we're OP or in need of a nerf.


The Doctors you see never running out of nano are the ones not doing their job to their fullest capacity. It's that simple.


Edit:

Also - if we're to be expected to "just get HE" or something after the changes why aren't you expected to "just bring a trader" to fight us?

[Brofist]

EDIT: a doctor will not die 1v1 against a profession that a) can't debuff or b) can't stun. this is a fact. that's fine. it's the same way a crat can't die to an engie.

Hmmmm.

[Otansaanpas]

yeah my bad. i missed that bit where they gave unstunnable perks to doctors in the perk changes documents that came out way back when.

np, it happens.
if i recall correctly, docs unstunnable perks was in same post where shades had stun-procs.. cant find the link, but if someone does, please post it here.

[Shrubberyman]

IOR is probably because we can cap -cost easily enough by 220 that wasting the NCU on a buff for more that won't affect anything is.. well, useless.

PNH, I never turn it down, don't see why someone would. There are activities that don't drain our nano so much, avoiding the use of DoTs is certainly one of em. When's the last time you saw a Doctor use their DoTs in a Pande raid or when doing Collector or APF or BS etc?

Even without Malp, in a duel that lasted about 4-5 minutes, I ran out of nano.

That we last that long is part of the job, we're Doctors for crying out loud. What about "THEY'RE HEALERS" screams "THEY DIE FAST"? Ya, the fight's gona be long if you get into one with us, and it's going to be a war of attrition.

Just because Funcom wants all fights to be done in 0.0001 seconds doesn't mean they should, imo, and just because Doctors don't die (from lack of nano to heal with) that quickly doesn't mean we're OP or in need of a nerf.


The Doctors you see never running out of nano are the ones not doing their job to their fullest capacity. It's that simple.


Edit:

Also - if we're to be expected to "just get HE" or something after the changes why aren't you expected to "just bring a trader" to fight us?

To be reasonable, it's not about endless nanopool, or never running out of nanos, it's about doctors killing their opponent(s) or dieying before they even starts to have real issues with their nanopool more often than not atm.

[Ayria]

To be reasonable, it's not about endless nanopool, or never running out of nanos, it's about doctors killing their opponent(s) or dieying before they even starts to have real issues with their nanopool more often than not atm.

Well perhaps if Funcom didn't "want fights to be faster!" this wouldn't be the case.

Doctors do run out of nano, but because the snapshot that people are looking at is so small they just see "endless pool".

[Lazy]

To be reasonable, it's not about endless nanopool, or never running out of nanos, it's about doctors killing their opponent(s) or dieying before they even starts to have real issues with their nanopool more often than not atm.

yeah doc alpha's a killer *rolleyes*

[Shrubberyman]

yeah doc alpha's a killer *rolleyes*

For one thing, Pistol docs these days certainly have too much offence in the light of their survivability. As mentioned earlier, real good docs manage to do more than just decent damage in PvP.

However, you should reread what I wrote, obviously Ayria understood something you did not.

[-yeny-]

docs have to worry about two capping specials from any one DD prof (any two of FA/AS/SA). yes. while true that we can heal a bunch, if two people save specials and coordinate an attack incorporating just one stun, our pitiful 5k absorb and 15% DTN isn't going to save anyone. good pvp enfos have what? 3-4 stuns + brawl? shades have stun perks + procs?

with all the tools you posted you should easily survive 2 ppl that safed their specials. with a decent def you wont be capped by FA mostly. with all that you would have 30?k 35?k hp. no enf or shade should be able to kill you if you play right.

crats are rofl espcially the remod crats that perk freak str3 and have an FA solja butt buddy.

with a decent def no one will perk you with freak str. for example, i cant perk some docs with freak str on my max off equipped engi (i think 3,2k ar self). and if you have problems against a remod crat as a nanomage with 30-35k effective hp idk what you are doin...

docs are nowhere near invincible. especially not in tl7 pvp against any fotm profession.

EDIT: a doctor will not die 1v1 against a profession that a) can't debuff or b) can't stun. this is a fact. that's fine. it's the same way a crat can't die to an engie. or an NR8 MA can't die to an NT. or NT's bend fixers over and spank them with doubles from max range. this is all fine an dandy. but dut saying doctors are immortal is taking it a bit far.

this balancing is about 1on1. team pvp is allrdy balanced... so, you have to look at 1 prof against another. not 3 on 1 survivability!

so if we look at the actual "balance": who can kill a doc by a pretty good chance? enf (only if he gets you in the right moment), shade (only if his alpha comes right in, but as NM you have a pretty good survive-chance), ma (if he gets all init debuffs running and if you dont proc-debuff him!). who can kill a doc from time to time? sold (only if you dont focus on heal while he alphas!), engi (only if he gets you on the wrong foot -> nano drain + perks down + ...)

so if you duel a doc he should be able to survive ANY alpha from ANY prof. only some profs have a real chance if they are LUCKY.

and when we look at rebalancing: all profs will loose alpha power, DD, etc. but docs will keep their heal-output for those 1on1 situations. that means less balancing for me! less profs than atm will be able to kill a doc. for me balancing is when anyone has a real chance against any other prof. wont make sense to duel a good doc after balancing. okay, not that it makes much sense actually, but some profs still have a chance to get out of it with a win. and you say thats okay? doc shouldnt be killable?

and why cant an engi kill a crat? you never played engi do you?

[Kazeran]

......

I really haven't a clue where you getting this info so lets clear some things up for you.

Docs cannot get 30-35k HP. 30k maybe if we give up a ton of stuff but its in no way a reliable setup.

FS has a 100% strength vs 50% evade check. If your not landing it on doctors your doing something very very wrong.

This balancing is not for 1v1.

[-yeny-]

30 k with the short-hp from heal.. + 5k nm absorb... 15% DTN (NM, that was posted by lazy)... +reflects (13%+)... often ibehe... adds up to a ****load of hp that is mostly unkillable.

my doc for example in max def setup got self 1800-2000 evades. + AAD + 12m buff + (towers). not perkable with freak str from anyone. fluffy and solodoc on rk1 have a pretty nice setup i think and they are mostly not perkable by FS. sometimes they are. ofc maxed abis and like i said 3,2k+ AR on engi. but i invite you to come to rk1 (if you arent allrdy there) and i ll show you

when this balancing is not for 1on1, why do we need it then? we dont need team pvp balance cause any side got the same options to bring in pvp!

i got these infos by ingame pvp experience from the last 6-7 years. thx.

[XenonDe]

Riiiiiight. Because you have 30k HP on your Nanomage doc in a evade setup wearing css/cs + research hud. If you want to discuss about healpower and the so called "no healpower nerfs" (up to 40% on sl heals) I suggest you post real numbers or risk not being taken seriously.

[-yeny-]

i didnt said you have to wear evade setup with css/cs. i said DECENT def. nothing more. and all those DECENT def equipped docs have a LOT hp and are mostly NOT perkable by FS. and i was talking about effective hp. l2r. thx. if you want to discuss about pvp you should participate in it maybe a bit more...

[XenonDe]

What you are saying? You're taking max numbers from specific HP / Evade / nano builds that partly aren't viable and try to make a picture out of these max values that in no way combine like that. And you know it. And you are ignoring the healpower actually being lowered which you are complaining about and the increase of nanocosts (slight for heals, insane for offense). Are the heals lowered to a degree you can outdamage them? Unlikely. Is it a lot easier to outdamage them then before? Hell yeah. Is the balance still ongoing. Check that.

Pulling some numbers, ignoring ongoing changes and trying to paint docs even more OP isn't discussing changes - it's just trolling.

[-yeny-]

i´m saying a decent equipped pvp doc got a good amount of hp + a pretty nice def (support symbs give a ****load of def + HUDs + board, etc.). mostly they also got ibehe+gsf and usually reflects. All that combined makes a good pvp doc unkillable for nearly everyone. and usually unperkable by freak str.

balancing might lower heal output by 30% or 40% or whatever you say. okay. you know that good pvp docs mostly heal with 216 or maybe 218 heal? then you just have to use the 220 heal to get the same amount or maybe more healed. then comes the nanocost. while your opponent is trying to kill you (mostly you can easily see when your opponent starts an alpha!) you just focus on heal. so, you would never run out of nano. nano regain(if you have it perked) + ND + ring proc (not that bad proc chance at all). so that wont be an issue after the balancing in 1on1. like i allrdy said, balancing should be for prof vs prof. we dont need team balancing.

finally docs get maybe 30-40% less healoutput that he can compensate by using 220 heal (that will only effect casting time / agg-def-bar / nano inits). a sold for example is cut by 30-40% dmg (no more AS, no more PU perks, no stun) + loosing 50% of his defense. so you call that balancing?