Remove CH form Agent Shadow/Mimic Line

[Sromp]

SO like I said, why aren't evades, CC and "escape" and "hide" survival techniques being addressed heavily. Is it because agents fear the loss fo CH with no gain? Do agents just like having that NT like gankablity on most professions? Do agents simply like being docs with more dmg and unavoidable high dmg specials?

Yeah, Agents are pretty much like Docs except uberer, and pretty much like NTs except more pwn. Honestly, they really just like instagibbing everyone while being untouchable. Maybe they'd be balanced if we made them pvp in mimic Engi and took away their roots and conceal. Agent evades are the shiznit; Advs, Crats, Fixers, Kippurs, MAs, MPs, NTs, Shades, and Tarders can't even touch their mad skill levelz. Lawl@nubis.


Stop begging the question. Also, we already know FC is going to remake their toolset.

[Lupusceleri]

Title says it all. Remove the ability for Agents to cast CH.

Agents have evades, CC and unending levels of DMG. CH is far too OP. I know there is a great deal of opinions on this matter and I would like to hear the pros and cons to my suggestion.

Any takers?

Yeah, here's a taker:

Obvious troll is obvious.

You're a goddamn Enforcer and complaining about Agents - why, exactly? Last I checked Enforcers have zero issues taking down an Agent.

Then further on you start talking about others not making "constructive posts". Did you honestly think that a post like your first one is constructive? Because I sure don't. You make a few claims, fail to back them up with facts, and then proceed to ask for the removal of Agents' only real defense. Yep, that'll definitely solve things.

As for your claims:

• Evades: Challenger provides you with more AR than an Agent can dream of getting EvadeClose, or you could Mongo Rage since you're Atrox.
• CC: Hellish Rage removes roots/snares, and due to the giant runspeed buff (+1200) you'll still run just as fast as the Agent that just Tranquilizer'd (-1200) you. In other words, what is this CC you're talking about?
• DMG: AS is the only thing in our toolset that actually hurts Enforcers, the rest is negated by layerspam or Bio Cocoon. Besides, we're far from the only prof with AS nowadays.
• CH: Perk yourself into Manners of Mongo, and either Blunt Mastery or Brawler. That gives you access to Groin Kick (stun and 1100 initdebuff), and either Crush Bone (900 initdebuff and 1200 runspeed debuff) or Followup Smash (stun and 600 initdebuff). Combine GK with any other initdebuff and you have an instant CH disabler. For more laughs fear the Agent ~1s after he starts casting CH, to interrupt it.

[Gatester]

Yeah, here's a taker:

Obvious troll is obvious.

You're a goddamn Enforcer and complaining about Agents - why, exactly? Last I checked Enforcers have zero issues taking down an Agent.

To be fair, tranq does make an enforcer noticeably slower than an agent and the enforcer also has to stop to cast while an agent will only stop when he is forced to. The no-issues thing also comes from particular enforcer alpha setups that are being fazed out by FC nerfs. No 2hb, 2he, or pure 1he or 1hb enforcer should ever be a threat to a good agent, the killing power simply isn't there.

[Aimzor]

This complete thread is so not relevant any more since Agents will get the biggest overhaul of all the professions. This big overhaul will be the biggest nerf for agents since they will have to learn a complete new way in doing things with there toolsets.

Regarding CH: there will be a big nanocost nerf incoming and FC stated that healers will have to work and be more dedicated to remain there nano at a certain lvl. No way an Agent will be able to keep up it's nano if a Doc has the same problem.

[Cyberleet]

Title says it all. Remove the ability for Agents to cast CH.

Agents have evades, CC and unending levels of DMG. CH is far too OP. I know there is a great deal of opinions on this matter and I would like to hear the pros and cons to my suggestion.

Any takers?

Agents do NOT have much evades, it's just that it's an open skill-system.

We do have some perkline-support for evades that increases our static evades a little, but the rest is pretty much damage! damage! damage! and a lot of direct damage perks in all kinds of forms together with CC, counter-CC and a little debuffs.

Ehm, I would rather suggest that mimic doctor should give a damage-penalty, which I find more suitable.

Then FP-ability could be enhanced even further

Altho, going undercover and pretending to be something we're not doesn't really make us share the intrest of a doctor so you have a point, but contentwise it's quite fun for players with the versalitilly and adapabillity.

So in short; Just add a damage-penalty to mimic doctor.

And since when have agents been DD's?

Pre-SL and if played right (note that it is hard to play agent) you're high DD with pretty unique opening damage between 1-160'ish, then things stagnates a little + our endgame perks (assassinate and death-strike) are misdesigned.

[Aimzor]

So in short; Just add a damage-penalty to mimic doctor.

Personally I don't think FC will rework the FP any soonish by just “adding this” and “nerfing that”. With the rebalance the concept op FP and Shadow Profession will get such a big overhaul people wont recognize it any more.

Or at least I hope, because I think I'm gonna like what FC has in mind and other Prof's should fear that . It's this fear in Agents getting the potential in being Powahfull back that people make these threads.


Atm:
Agents don’t have crazy high evades (It's just you lacking AR), a semi useful CC set and abit below oké-ish dam.

[Lupusceleri]

To be fair, tranq does make an enforcer noticeably slower than an agent

In that case, wait out the 25s Tranq lasts, then catch up with the agent and alpha him. No big deal right? You have several tools to do that, stun/snare perks, and a fear with added runspeed debuff.

and the enforcer also has to stop to cast while an agent will only stop when he is forced to.

You think the fairies cast CH so the Agent doesn't have to stop to do it?

The no-issues thing also comes from particular enforcer alpha setups that are being fazed out by FC nerfs. No 2hb, 2he, or pure 1he or 1hb enforcer should ever be a threat to a good agent, the killing power simply isn't there.

But it is. AFAIK good Enforcers - the ones that are actually a threat, I mean - have already dropped the 1he perkline from their alpha, instead investing their perks into Manners of Mongo: you need initdebuffs, not more damage.

Then there's guys like RK1 Suggester who have dropped 1he altogether and are using 1hb+piercing and still alphaing nearly every Agent out there.

[Gatester]

In that case, wait out the 25s Tranq lasts, then catch up with the agent and alpha him. No big deal right? You have several tools to do that, stun/snare perks, and a fear with added runspeed debuff.

Wait it out? You mean just sit there spamming defenses until tranq ends hoping that you can make up that 40m gap afterward without being practically dead?

You think the fairies cast CH so the Agent doesn't have to stop to do it?

I would hope that you are not spamming CH when you are at full health kiting a melee profession.

But it is. AFAIK good Enforcers - the ones that are actually a threat, I mean - have already dropped the 1he perkline from their alpha, instead investing their perks into Manners of Mongo: you need initdebuffs, not more damage.

Then there's guys like RK1 Suggester who have dropped 1he altogether and are using 1hb+piercing and still alphaing nearly every Agent out there.

Groin kick is only viable in duels. The brawl AR is too low to land in most cases without LE procs and you have to be facing an opponent who is also facing you, which they are rarely doing if they are kiting you.

If you are dieing to groin kick in random encounters then that is your fault.

[Marinegent]

The arguments in this thread are laughable.

Again I am reminded why this game is broken and will never be properly fixed.

[Sromp]

Wait it out? You mean just sit there spamming defenses until tranq ends hoping that you can make up that 40m gap afterward without being practically dead?

Dead after 25s? He gets in 2 ASes. Even if you had all your perks down, absorb down, and were out of nano to layer, you could just /disco and you'd survive everything he could throw at you, even if he had everything up.

Contrast that with a nano-less agent with his items and perks down when he meets an enfo with everything up.

I would hope that you are not spamming CH when you are at full health kiting a melee profession.

Ranged users don't do damage while moving, and even with his snare on you he can't outrun you.

Groin kick is only viable in duels. The brawl AR is too low to land in most cases without LE procs and you have to be facing an opponent who is also facing you, which they are rarely doing if they are kiting you.

Once upon a time I did PvP enfo brawl AR calculations to see what evades I needed, and I got a result which made me abandon def setups vs enfos. You're pretty good at twinking, so I'd love to see what numbers you come up with.
Also, if you're within 3m of your snared target, doing what shades have done since forever shouldn't be that hard.

[Lupusceleri]

Wait it out? You mean just sit there spamming defenses until tranq ends hoping that you can make up that 40m gap afterward without being practically dead?

Agent perk damage is like 10 different damage types, which means absorb spam (or Bio Cocoon) is extremely effective against it. There is no regular damage if we are kiting. Which leaves AS. In 25s we can get off 3 AS (0s, 11s, 22s) so just as Srompu said even if you just /disco'd there you would still be alive to do your alpha.

That said, Enf speed becomes "equal" to the Agent's speed with snareperks on, so you'll still be able to keep up ... just not catch up. No such thing as a 40m gap there buddy.

I would hope that you are not spamming CH when you are at full health kiting a melee profession.

Except we will not (well, rarely) be at full health.

Groin kick is only viable in duels. The brawl AR is too low to land in most cases without LE procs and you have to be facing an opponent who is also facing you, which they are rarely doing if they are kiting you.

If you are dieing to groin kick in random encounters then that is your fault.

Ok so Forz is a bad Enforcer outside duels? Or Impetu? That's news to me, because last I checked everyone thought they were among the deadliest Enfs out there - both in duels and random encounters.

Want to know why it's easier to alpha an Agent in random encounters than duels?

1. Agent can not prepare by swapping in several extra hp items, anti-interrupt stuff, and things that help him absorb the damage (IE: Healer Cloak). And also need to do full aggro or you're 100% boned whatever you do.

2. Enforcer fear isn't available in /duel. However, in random encounters a decent Enf will use it to interrupt a CH cast that might have pushed through the init debuffs.

Therefore, if you are failing to alpha an Agent in random encounters that's solely you being terrible at Enf PvP.

Hints: lack of a SneakAttack weapon, Form of Troll perked instead of Manners of Mongo, only 5 perks into Blunt Mastery, and an overall horrible setup for any kind of PvP purposes.

I'd love to see a real Enforcer coming out here and saying with a straight face that they are having issues alphaing Agents in random encounters. Not one of these PvMers or a guy that's still learning how to PvP.

[Tinypain]

Good god I come home from work and see this? You've got to be kidding me. @OP - the next time you have a thought, just do the world a favor and let it go. Also, lol at OP being an enforcer.

[Gatester]

Dead after 25s? He gets in 2 ASes. Even if you had all your perks down, absorb down, and were out of nano to layer, you could just /disco and you'd survive everything he could throw at you, even if he had everything up.

Contrast that with a nano-less agent with his items and perks down when he meets an enfo with everything up.

Try not to argue by misquoting me. Lupus said just sit there and take a possible 3 capping hits+ 25 seconds of regular hits, crits, and flings alongside an agents perks until tranq runs out and that I would be just fine to run up and alpha the agent as if he was nothing.

Ranged users don't do damage while moving, and even with his snare on you he can't outrun you.

Sorry, but when I pvp on my...lemme count them...9 ranged pvp toons, I tend to do damage just fine when kiting. My 20m+ ranged perks fire just fine while I'm kiting someone and I only have to stop for a split second to unload all my specials on a target. For 4 years now I've been kiting...and doing damage...perhaps I have been doing it wrong despite my success?

Once upon a time I did PvP enfo brawl AR calculations to see what evades I needed, and I got a result which made me abandon def setups vs enfos. You're pretty good at twinking, so I'd love to see what numbers you come up with.
Also, if you're within 3m of your snared target, doing what shades have done since forever shouldn't be that hard.

I could post some 220 calcs for professions I don't have too.

Agent perk damage is like 10 different damage types, which means absorb spam (or Bio Cocoon) is extremely effective against it. There is no regular damage if we are kiting. Which leaves AS. In 25s we can get off 3 AS (0s, 11s, 22s) so just as Srompu said even if you just /disco'd there you would still be alive to do your alpha.

In that case, wait out the 25s Tranq lasts, then catch up with the agent and alpha him. No big deal right?

It is annoying when people try to twist things around based on comments they made earlier. Luckily, things in text are easy to place again for reference.

That said, Enf speed becomes "equal" to the Agent's speed with snareperks on, so you'll still be able to keep up ... just not catch up. No such thing as a 40m gap there buddy.

1900+1200=3100 runspeed, 3100-1200=1900 runspeed. Agents have 1900 runspeed?

Except we will not (well, rarely) be at full health.

If only agents had conceal, range, and the ability to control situations with snares and stuns.

Ok so Forz is a bad Enforcer outside duels? Or Impetu? That's news to me, because last I checked everyone thought they were among the deadliest Enfs out there - both in duels and random encounters.

Want to know why it's easier to alpha an Agent in random encounters than duels?

1. Agent can not prepare by swapping in several extra hp items, anti-interrupt stuff, and things that help him absorb the damage (IE: Healer Cloak). And also need to do full aggro or you're 100% boned whatever you do.

2. Enforcer fear isn't available in /duel. However, in random encounters a decent Enf will use it to interrupt a CH cast that might have pushed through the init debuffs.

Enforcers always have all their tools, and especially perks with up to 2 minute recharges available. Even in random pvp an enforcer will not have 32-39k max health but somewhere around 65-80k max health and 4000 runspeed.

The enforcer alpha does 55000 damage, meaning even if you CH two times you will stilll die to the ridiculous amount of damage. If an enforcer fails his alpha then he can still slaughter you because of his massive DPM and the fact that it is impossible to get away from enforcers.

Fear does not have an incredibly long lockout that might often be unavailable for an encounter, they spam it and win all the time. This is why agents never kill enforcers.


Sarcasm asside, "you should not be dieing to groin kick in random encounters" is a lot different than "you should not be dieing to enforcers in random encounters". Pay attention to your own comments.

Therefore, if you are failing to alpha an Agent in random encounters that's solely you being terrible at Enf PvP.

Hints: lack of a SneakAttack weapon, Form of Troll perked instead of Manners of Mongo, only 5 perks into Blunt Mastery, and an overall horrible setup for any kind of PvP purposes.

I'd love to see a real Enforcer coming out here and saying with a straight face that they are having issues alphaing Agents in random encounters. Not one of these PvMers or a guy that's still learning how to PvP.

Oh noes I've been found out! The enforcer in my signature is the same one I tried pvping with for the 4 years (wait didn't some of those items not exist back then?) I have had my main. I definately was not the 2nd enforcer on RK2 to use the 1he/1hb pvp setup soon after limber and DoF were removed from the necessary actions to utilize the final two 1he perks as I actively pvp'd in BS and tara.

Hints: basing arguments off of signatures makes you a moron, there are better perk options than Manners of Mongo (you would know that if you actually had an enforcer), I have better perk options than more 1hb for pvm, and no **** sherlock its called a tanking setup and not my pvp setup.


You wanna drag this out and claim that agents can never kill enforcers and that the enforcer alpha is 100% successful then be my guest. I was totally against removing CH but was merely pointing out that agents are not so defenseless. You are commenting based on rumors and what you percieve is happening without realizing the actual effort involved and amount of experience needed in enforcer pvp. Read my first reply again, and stick with that.

P.S. My higher level agent isn't in my signature, it must not exist just like any pvp setup I used.

[Lupusceleri]

It is annoying when people try to twist things around based on comments they made earlier. Luckily, things in text are easy to place again for reference.

Twist things around? What are you even talking about. Surely you didn't think "wait out the 25s Tranq lasts" meant /lounge and just let the Agent wail away on you? Because that'd be plain ol' stupid.

1900+1200=3100 runspeed, 3100-1200=1900 runspeed. Agents have 1900 runspeed?

I can't log in to check right now because of Awesomium sucking donkey balls, but, if I remember correctly it's 2000ish runspeed with wolfgraft.

If only agents had conceal, range, and the ability to control situations with snares and stuns.

We can't conceal if we're under attack. Rest is irrelevant and if the Agent uses stuns anywhere outside of the Enf's alpha he's dead meat.

Enforcers always have all their tools, and especially perks with up to 2 minute recharges available. Even in random pvp an enforcer will not have 32-39k max health but somewhere around 65-80k max health and 4000 runspeed.

The enforcer alpha does 55000 damage, meaning even if you CH two times you will stilll die to the ridiculous amount of damage. If an enforcer fails his alpha then he can still slaughter you because of his massive DPM and the fact that it is impossible to get away from enforcers.

Fear does not have an incredibly long lockout that might often be unavailable for an encounter, they spam it and win all the time. This is why agents never kill enforcers.

Agents, also, always have their tools available. Especially the 90s cooldown stun which allows them to survive alphas, but which they also need to kill healers - in other words, permalocked. Then we always have NF Coolant Sink on. And also Healer Cloak. As well as extra hp gear.

CH does over 40000 healing per cast so any time the Agent uses it he's back on full hp.

PS: Fear isn't -required- to alpha Agents. It's just a cherry on top of the alpha, that you can use if you want to be "sure" he dies.

Sarcasm asside, "you should not be dieing to groin kick in random encounters" is a lot different than "you should not be dieing to enforcers in random encounters". Pay attention to your own comments.

Is that why good Enfs like Forz and Impetu use Groin Kick in random encounters? Please tell me more.

Oh noes I've been found out! The enforcer in my signature is the same one I tried pvping with for the 4 years (wait didn't some of those items not exist back then?) I have had my main. I definately was not the 2nd enforcer on RK2 to use the 1he/1hb pvp setup soon after limber and DoF were removed from the necessary actions to utilize the final two 1he perks as I actively pvp'd in BS and tara.

Hints: basing arguments off of signatures makes you a moron, there are better perk options than Manners of Mongo (you would know that if you actually had an enforcer), I have better perk options than more 1hb for pvm, and no **** sherlock its called a tanking setup and not my pvp setup.

In fact I'd rate MoM as an essential perk line if you want to stand a chance against healers. I would give up Form of Troll for Manners of Mongo: the big runspeed debuff on Troll Form makes it a pain to use effectively in PvP, and besides decent Agents have learned how to stim out of your stuns years ago. Can't stim out of an init debuff though.

I would go for this perk setup with my own Enforcer; it guarantees dead healers and has plenty of survival/healing.

Signature or not I knew for a fact you weren't 1hb/1he mix anymore right now, and that is what we are talking about now. 1hb/1he "way back when" was very different from the state it is in now, and you know it!

You wanna drag this out and claim that agents can never kill enforcers and that the enforcer alpha is 100% successful then be my guest. I was totally against removing CH but was merely pointing out that agents are not so defenseless. You are commenting based on rumors and what you percieve is happening without realizing the actual effort involved and amount of experience needed in enforcer pvp. Read my first reply again, and stick with that.

P.S. My higher level agent isn't in my signature, it must not exist just like any pvp setup I used.

Agents can survive Enforcers if:

a) the Enf is a failure and doesn't know how to deal with Agents.
b) the Enf is a failure and doesn't have MoM perked.
c) the Agent went to great measures to prepare himself for an Enf alpha, including big setup changes.

C only happens in duels. Which leaves A and B, or "option D": the Enf turns the Agent into a small red stain on the floor.

[Gatester]

Twist things around? What are you even talking about. Surely you didn't think "wait out the 25s Tranq lasts" meant /lounge and just let the Agent wail away on you? Because that'd be plain ol' stupid.

I can't log in to check right now because of Awesomium sucking donkey balls, but, if I remember correctly it's 2000ish runspeed with wolfgraft.

We can't conceal if we're under attack. Rest is irrelevant and if the Agent uses stuns anywhere outside of the Enf's alpha he's dead meat.

Agents, also, always have their tools available. Especially the 90s cooldown stun which allows them to survive alphas, but which they also need to kill healers - in other words, permalocked. Then we always have NF Coolant Sink on. And also Healer Cloak. As well as extra hp gear.

CH does over 40000 healing per cast so any time the Agent uses it he's back on full hp.

PS: Fear isn't -required- to alpha Agents. It's just a cherry on top of the alpha, that you can use if you want to be "sure" he dies.

Is that why good Enfs like Forz and Impetu use Groin Kick in random encounters? Please tell me more.

In fact I'd rate MoM as an essential perk line if you want to stand a chance against healers. I would give up Form of Troll for Manners of Mongo: the big runspeed debuff on Troll Form makes it a pain to use effectively in PvP, and besides decent Agents have learned how to stim out of your stuns years ago. Can't stim out of an init debuff though.

I would go for this perk setup with my own Enforcer; it guarantees dead healers and has plenty of survival/healing.

Signature or not I knew for a fact you weren't 1hb/1he mix anymore right now, and that is what we are talking about now. 1hb/1he "way back when" was very different from the state it is in now, and you know it!

Agents can survive Enforcers if:

a) the Enf is a failure and doesn't know how to deal with Agents.
b) the Enf is a failure and doesn't have MoM perked.
c) the Agent went to great measures to prepare himself for an Enf alpha, including big setup changes.

C only happens in duels. Which leaves A and B, or "option D": the Enf turns the Agent into a small red stain on the floor.

There are only two things you need to realize, very simple concepts.

1) Both professions can have parts of their toolset in cooldown and it makes a huge difference, and acting as if either one always has everything available in an encounter is ignorant. Acting as if the enforcer's toolset being down or not is irrelevent to their ability to beat an agent is even more ignorant.

2) MoM for Groin Kick is good for healers and soldiers in duels, but NOT every enf is geared to take out doctors and agents. When I say there are better perk options than Manners of Mongo I am not simply referring to Form of Troll, I am referring to any perk option that works in the majority of situations. And again, if you are knowingly face to face with an enforcer using a very slow attack time perk that requires both players to face each other, you screwed up.

An enforcer is not a gimp because he chooses not to use a perk setup that works best against two professions in duels and sometimes in open combat. You are acting like Forz and Impetu alpha everyone 100% of the time and that they have not had years of experience with the enforcer profession to get at that level. You also act as though an agent with equal experience has no chance to survive. Enforcers must kill you with their alpha or they will be unable to kill you for at least 60 seconds, which means an enforcer will live or die by the success of their alpha.

Enforcers in a setup meant for taking out agents and doctors who are fighting agents or doctors not setup to survive alphas are going to die more often. This is not an imbalance but your choice, so either adapt like a good pvper or cry on the forums everytime someone kills you. In fact, by your own reasoning I should call you a gimp noob because you refuse to use a setup that can survive an enforcer's alpha in open pvp.

Now being entirely clueless as the last time I was 1he/1hb (it's within a year) I would drop this agents are the nerfest act.

[lainbr]

This thread is a bad bad joke.

Do you really wanna full nerf a prof that is fighting with MPs to get "The Gimpest Profession" trophy? Laughable.

[Lupusceleri]

There are only two things you need to realize, very simple concepts.

1) Both professions can have parts of their toolset in cooldown and it makes a huge difference, and acting as if either one always has everything available in an encounter is ignorant. Acting as if the enforcer's toolset being down or not is irrelevent to their ability to beat an agent is even more ignorant.

This goes both ways. An enf with everything up is guaranteed to beat an agent with for example Concussive Shot down since it is essential in surviving such an alpha. But if an enf -does- kill me when I have most my stuff down I won't be doing any complaining about it, so let's assume the fight is a random encounter where they both have everything up. In that case the enf should win UNLESS the agent has prepared himself to fight enfs.

In reality? That only happens in duels or in situations where the Agent knows in advance that his only opponent is going to be an Enf.

2) MoM for Groin Kick is good for healers and soldiers in duels, but NOT every enf is geared to take out doctors and agents. When I say there are better perk options than Manners of Mongo I am not simply referring to Form of Troll, I am referring to any perk option that works in the majority of situations. And again, if you are knowingly face to face with an enforcer using a very slow attack time perk that requires both players to face each other, you screwed up.

Just like not every Agent is geared to survive enf alphas. I can count the Agents that can do that on the fingers of my hands. And the amount of Agents that have the gear, preparation, and the skill to survive enf alphas toe-to-toe in a duel? I can count those on one hand.

The whole "knowingly face" thing is bull - with some moving around you can get the perk off, just like Shades have been doing with Piercing Mastery since the dawn of time.

An enforcer is not a gimp because he chooses not to use a perk setup that works best against two professions in duels and sometimes in open combat. You are acting like Forz and Impetu alpha everyone 100% of the time and that they have not had years of experience with the enforcer profession to get at that level. You also act as though an agent with equal experience has no chance to survive.

Indeed.

But an average Enforcer will steamroll an average Agent in any situation. An awesome Enforcer will steamroll an awesome Agent, UNLESS that Agent is prepared to survive his alpha.

In random encounters, that Agent simply does not have the time to "prepare" for an Enforcer, because it involves swapping lots of equipment!

And even with preparation, the awesome Enforcer still has a very good chance to beat the awesome Agent. For the record I am ~50/50 with Forz in duels. He says I am one of the hardest Agents to alpha. If he could use fears in a duel the win:loss balance would sharply skew in his favour.

Enforcers must kill you with their alpha or they will be unable to kill you for at least 60 seconds, which means an enforcer will live or die by the success of their alpha.

Sounds fair to me, when their alpha is so hard to survive.

Enforcers in a setup meant for taking out agents and doctors who are fighting agents or doctors not setup to survive alphas are going to die more often. This is not an imbalance but your choice, so either adapt like a good pvper or cry on the forums everytime someone kills you. In fact, by your own reasoning I should call you a gimp noob because you refuse to use a setup that can survive an enforcer's alpha in open pvp.

I have adapted, by rolling a nanomage. And for the record it's not me crying on the forums, it's you and Fortorn crying because you can't kill Agents. Well, tough stuff. Set up for it, or suck it up and go kill every other prof out there.

Now being entirely clueless as the last time I was 1he/1hb (it's within a year) I would drop this agents are the nerfest act.

MPs are the nerfest right now, Keeper a close second, MA/Agent fighting for the third place.

[Cyberleet]

Enfo can play with agent yeh.

I use blind-perk + snareperks. Player just /follow and runs as if unaffected by my stuff. We have to make short stops to AS. Can be pretty rough against good enfos to put it that way

Atm:
Agents don’t have crazy high evades (It's just you lacking AR), a semi useful CC set and abit below oké-ish dam.

One issue is we don't have a working toolset on our own for practical purposes.

Repressors have insane requirements and do nothing after high AS on a nas-heck/borg.

We splat before we can cast de-snare and de-root (when we need to) + casting CH is a better option, fix please. These nanos doesn't offer temporarily immunity either (agent operates effectively in short moments conceptually). Our escape-nanos doesn't make us outrun, get away from so many or do so much and have vicious penalties.

Stealth combined with absolute consentration doesn't do so much. IGW isn't the safest solution to use in rough combat, instead we spend the recharge on CH. OOC

The perks to THE stealthclass is not stealthfriendly while the general perks are...go figure

Don't forget that many find CH+UBT very fun tho.

The thing with a damage-penalty on mimic doc is firstly that it makes sense. Secondly it allows for increasing both damage-capacity and heal-capacity without unbalancing the game.

I'm not sure what I think of that shaddow-idea tho. I like the assassin-theme for one

You think the fairies cast CH so the Agent doesn't have to stop to do it?

Thats an issue.

Make casting consentration, Dire Circumstance, Jail Break, Disappear, Sureshot, Bullseye more beneficial than casting CH.

Kthxbye...

Oh!
I'd love to actually be able to pvp/combat in any FP please.

I'd love to see a real Enforcer coming out here and saying with a straight face that they are having issues alphaing Agents in random encounters.

In his defence you're just mathematicly correct. Our own stuff needs a review however.

Edit: And I am not meaning more rings/armor etc designed for casting CH.

[fortorn]

Yeah, here's a taker:

Obvious troll is obvious.

You're a goddamn Enforcer and complaining about Agents - why, exactly? Last I checked Enforcers have zero issues taking down an Agent.

Then further on you start talking about others not making "constructive posts". Did you honestly think that a post like your first one is constructive? Because I sure don't. You make a few claims, fail to back them up with facts, and then proceed to ask for the removal of Agents' only real defense. Yep, that'll definitely solve things.

As for your claims:

• Evades: Challenger provides you with more AR than an Agent can dream of getting EvadeClose, or you could Mongo Rage since you're Atrox.
• CC: Hellish Rage removes roots/snares, and due to the giant runspeed buff (+1200) you'll still run just as fast as the Agent that just Tranquilizer'd (-1200) you. In other words, what is this CC you're talking about?
• DMG: AS is the only thing in our toolset that actually hurts Enforcers, the rest is negated by layerspam or Bio Cocoon. Besides, we're far from the only prof with AS nowadays.
• CH: Perk yourself into Manners of Mongo, and either Blunt Mastery or Brawler. That gives you access to Groin Kick (stun and 1100 initdebuff), and either Crush Bone (900 initdebuff and 1200 runspeed debuff) or Followup Smash (stun and 600 initdebuff). Combine GK with any other initdebuff and you have an instant CH disabler. For more laughs fear the Agent ~1s after he starts casting CH, to interrupt it.

Well that was overtly hostile. Did I seem that hostile in first post? Sorry if I did, let me clear that up now.

May aim is this you insecure toolbag of a professional - I really like the idea and function of an agent. I refuse to make an agent because I see what the inevitably become in all raid and pvp situations = docs with rifles. if i wanted a doc with a rifle I would make a doc with a rifle.

I wanted to get real and honest opinions about why agents have just the one predominant toolset and what suggestions there are to fix it since it seems very limiting to have an agent that is a buffstick//docw/rifle.

I was talking post balance and not now. Removing CH form agents now would be crippling. After it may not be so.
--The argument against rage is mute as it is changing to remove runspeed and has a cooldown.
--You will be the only profession with viable short recharge AS capabilities post balance according to the developers thus far.
--Perks are cool. for a full 220/70/30 enfo shouldn't be an issue. Pre... "that" we are talking about pretty special setups to combat an agent. Where an agent doesn't really need any special setup to CH or UBT or AS iirc.

Thanks for your input professional.

[fortorn]

Agents do NOT have much evades, it's just that it's an open skill-system.

We do have some perkline-support for evades that increases our static evades a little, but the rest is pretty much damage! damage! damage! and a lot of direct damage perks in all kinds of forms together with CC, counter-CC and a little debuffs.

Ehm, I would rather suggest that mimic doctor should give a damage-penalty, which I find more suitable.

Then FP-ability could be enhanced even further

Altho, going undercover and pretending to be something we're not doesn't really make us share the intrest of a doctor so you have a point, but contentwise it's quite fun for players with the versalitilly and adapabillity.

So in short; Just add a damage-penalty to mimic doctor.

Hey constructive, creative and most of all NICE. <3