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Thread: Using specials while casting.

  1. #1

    Using specials while casting.

    Should we be allowed to use weapon specials while casting?

  2. #2
    IMO, no.
    Casting takes consentration, and it does prevent the normal attack cycle even.
    Specials and offensive perks should, imo, fire on the attack cycle.
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  3. #3
    They already interfere with each other to some point.
    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

    MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  4. #4
    You're going to feel the wrath of 10,000 doctors if you take away using specials while casting.
    Last edited by Kazeran; Nov 19th, 2010 at 16:01:03.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeran View Post
    You're going to feel the wrath of 10,000 doctors if you take away using specials while casting, namely in recharge.
    This!
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  6. #6
    Casting isn't recharge

    They should not be allowed to stack if they're serious about moving the game away from Alpha Online to provide a better pvp experience for new players. But obviously FC don't have a problem with it (after all keybinding all specials together is now possible) so not going to happen
    bai2u!
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    Electronite: FFA also destroyed Clan hegemony when it comes to tower wars. Ironically the downfall was started by the most active pvpers. Another ironic thing is that the downfall happened due to pvm conflict. Silirrion: (We have pretty good anti-troll filters by now though) Means: Thong-wearing troxes will always be a part of this game and a point of AO pride. Keldros: Obviously reall trolls don't use conditioner Marlark: If this forum was Swedish in it's language .. id pawn you any day. 220 NT: tl7 is a joke most of the time. 90% of the people are double double dead. some are worth debuffing tho. Mastablasta: you guys are right and I'm wrong. Ebag: No. You alpha me'd due to the stat bug. More Ebag: I don't have any twinks currently, nor do I participate much in mass TL7 PvP (though I do go occasionally, usually just to watch). Questra: an MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  7. #7
    uhh.. docs sure would love not being able to shoot, use special or perks 75% of the time. Guess the cyberdeck would become more desirable under those circumstances.
    Deadly Whisper - RK1
    too many alts for to little space

  8. #8
    hey in some games, healers can't do ANY dd during a typical raid xD
    bai2u!
    -::l2pvp!1::-
    Electronite: FFA also destroyed Clan hegemony when it comes to tower wars. Ironically the downfall was started by the most active pvpers. Another ironic thing is that the downfall happened due to pvm conflict. Silirrion: (We have pretty good anti-troll filters by now though) Means: Thong-wearing troxes will always be a part of this game and a point of AO pride. Keldros: Obviously reall trolls don't use conditioner Marlark: If this forum was Swedish in it's language .. id pawn you any day. 220 NT: tl7 is a joke most of the time. 90% of the people are double double dead. some are worth debuffing tho. Mastablasta: you guys are right and I'm wrong. Ebag: No. You alpha me'd due to the stat bug. More Ebag: I don't have any twinks currently, nor do I participate much in mass TL7 PvP (though I do go occasionally, usually just to watch). Questra: an MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  9. #9
    You know.. I wasn't worried about raid dd.
    Deadly Whisper - RK1
    too many alts for to little space

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrys View Post
    Casting isn't recharge

    They should not be allowed to stack if they're serious about moving the game away from Alpha Online to provide a better pvp experience for new players. But obviously FC don't have a problem with it (after all keybinding all specials together is now possible) so not going to happen
    Yea sorry early in the morning, I was thinking casting while in recharge but that doesn't make sense either

  11. #11
    Definately not while you are in the recharge state, this is strictly for the cast time (think adventurers during Invocation of the Phoenix being able to alpha you while they cast).

  12. #12
    It's not something that bothers me. However, some of the profs out there have to constantly keep casting something to maintain their viability, crats, traders, docs come to mind.

    It's not something I would change at this point.

  13. #13
    It would also cause even more problems with init debuffs.
    Deadly Whisper - RK1
    too many alts for to little space

  14. #14
    With the tendency of relying more on local cooldown than casttime/recharge, I don't really see a problem in having casting block the use of specials. As said, it already blocks your normal attack cycle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrys View Post
    Casting isn't recharge
    They should not be allowed to stack if they're serious about moving the game away from Alpha Online to provide a better pvp experience for new players. But obviously FC don't have a problem with it (after all keybinding all specials together is now possible) so not going to happen
    Nice troll. You've been told over and over that insta-queueing of perks don't make them insta-execute. They're added to an execution queue, and are executed in order; With their atk delays.
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  15. #15
    No but all the rolls are performed at the same time, hence MR! > perkperkperkperkperk
    bai2u!
    -::l2pvp!1::-
    Electronite: FFA also destroyed Clan hegemony when it comes to tower wars. Ironically the downfall was started by the most active pvpers. Another ironic thing is that the downfall happened due to pvm conflict. Silirrion: (We have pretty good anti-troll filters by now though) Means: Thong-wearing troxes will always be a part of this game and a point of AO pride. Keldros: Obviously reall trolls don't use conditioner Marlark: If this forum was Swedish in it's language .. id pawn you any day. 220 NT: tl7 is a joke most of the time. 90% of the people are double double dead. some are worth debuffing tho. Mastablasta: you guys are right and I'm wrong. Ebag: No. You alpha me'd due to the stat bug. More Ebag: I don't have any twinks currently, nor do I participate much in mass TL7 PvP (though I do go occasionally, usually just to watch). Questra: an MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Demoder View Post
    With the tendency of relying more on local cooldown than casttime/recharge, I don't really see a problem in having casting block the use of specials. As said, it already blocks your normal attack cycle.
    If you believe they'll lower the cast times.. then what's even the point of blocking specials if everything is insta cast? Currently I can only think of 2 professions that would be affected by blocking specials and perks and that are docs and nts. Blocking perks would also nerf their defense mind you.
    Deadly Whisper - RK1
    too many alts for to little space

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by XenonDe View Post
    If you believe they'll lower the cast times.. then what's even the point of blocking specials if everything is insta cast? Currently I can only think of 2 professions that would be affected by blocking specials and perks and that are docs and nts. Blocking perks would also nerf their defense mind you.
    Very small and innacurate list for the current in game situation at least. Professions I know for a fact that you have excluded are adventurers, agents, and enforcers. All three of those professions rely much more heavily on alphaing with specials as well, which means this would be a direct nerf to those professions. Also, professions from lower levels where everything is not instacast would be an extensive list.

    In addition, it makes init debuffs far more effective towards reducing alpha potential by opponents. In the case of doctors, this makes a minor sacrifice toward their ability to use specials in pvp to avoiding significant damage from others in pvp. For crats, their init debuffs might be enough to reduce the likelihood of opponents being able to AS or SA them, thus increasing their survival further as well.

    My main reason for asking this question is because I have a feeling that FC will have to make this sort of nerf to prevent players from "queuing" AS in the future and then using FA while it is casting, but I could be wrong.

    Either way, if abilities such as init debuffs are nerfed, and for crats this has happened, then making those init debuffs more effective seems like a fair point for discussion. If you think this change would nerf your crats fling shot DPM, or doctors burst DPM post-balancing, I suggest you re-examine the effects this question proposes.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Very small and innacurate list for the current in game situation at least. Professions I know for a fact that you have excluded are adventurers, agents, and enforcers. All three of those professions rely much more heavily on alphaing with specials as well, which means this would be a direct nerf to those professions. Also, professions from lower levels where everything is not instacast would be an extensive list.
    I believed most nanos these professions use are instacast especially with the new changes in the nano documents that decreased cast times all around. Others didn't come to mind because they usually don't need to alpha/perk during cast tines.
    Very true point about lower levels though. Lack of nanoinit hurts.

    From a doc standpoint.. when they reduce the cast times of all stuff like they did in the other balance docs and everyone can instacast their stuff this won't have much effect. If they keep cast times on dots and judging by the perk changes doc will rely even more on dots you might ask why equip a weapon in the first place if neither regulars nor specials and perks can be used.

    I don't really see what this should accomplish besides preventing the channeling AS to be while casting. Why not state that intent outright instead of going a roundabout way. If channeling AS cannot use nanos and vice versa.
    Deadly Whisper - RK1
    too many alts for to little space

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrys View Post
    hey in some games, healers can't do ANY dd during a typical raid xD
    and that reflects to AO.. some docs doesnt do anything else than heal.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by XenonDe View Post
    I believed most nanos these professions use are instacast especially with the new changes in the nano documents that decreased cast times all around. Others didn't come to mind because they usually don't need to alpha/perk during cast tines.
    Very true point about lower levels though. Lack of nanoinit hurts.

    From a doc standpoint.. when they reduce the cast times of all stuff like they did in the other balance docs and everyone can instacast their stuff this won't have much effect. If they keep cast times on dots and judging by the perk changes doc will rely even more on dots you might ask why equip a weapon in the first place if neither regulars nor specials and perks can be used.

    I don't really see what this should accomplish besides preventing the channeling AS to be while casting. Why not state that intent outright instead of going a roundabout way. If channeling AS cannot use nanos and vice versa.
    It is better for a broad discussion when you do not influence others with your own reasoning for starting an opinion based thread. I did not want to lead anyone to anything but rather brought up the ideas on their own at the beginning of the thread.

    As for the future, lets just assume for now that not everyone will be insta-casting everything, at least not while init debuffed. It would be pointless as you said if everyone had no cast times to worry about.

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