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Thread: New Engineer Nano Changes!

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Alceona View Post
    I'd love some changes: reflect, add dmg buffs, blockers, may be somthing else.

    But:
    1. reflect debuff as a pet proc is a a bad idia, becouse it makes our pets a prime target in any case. In mass pvp it makes soldier immortal, beouse it affects 1 target and only for pets. Since pets are usualy rooted or calmed in mass pvp engineer becomes blocker totem only in mass pvp.

    2. We will lose 726 offence from pet buffs. I hope new pet ar will be an adequate, becouse we will lose possibility to do any harm to evaders especially to bureaucrats and fixers.

    3. Trade skill for nano buffing is a stupid idia, becouse size of trade skills for this nanos much more than we need to have for top craft. My guide helps you to realise how much base skills we need for craft. I'm affraid we lose possibility to use any weapon with new Tskill requaerments, becouse IP cost of new setup will be higher. I would not like to comment what most of engineers will chose to be a crafter or to be a weaponer.

    4. Root/snare pet immun redused from 76% to 30%. It will be more easyer to root/snare our pets.

    5. Blockers. ATM it's possible to remove it by 3 specials: burst, fling, AS. So fixers, crats, engineers, docs, Envy soldiers, Advs have possability to remove it solo by right special combo. 5 special blockers are 100% removable by this professions for 12 seconds and 18 seconds we have no deffence. (i'm not mind if you are going allow people to use only 2 special such as fling ore burst + AS ore FA)
    Geee...

    Last edited by Alceona; Today at 21:22:03..

    Did you actually read what K just wrote in the post above yours?
    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

    MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  2. #82
    It will be no problem for a engineer to cast slayer at lvl 50

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Alceona View Post
    I'd love some changes: reflect, add dmg buffs, blockers, may be somthing else.

    But:
    1. reflect debuff as a pet proc is a a bad idia, becouse it makes our pets a prime target in any case. In mass pvp it makes soldier immortal, beouse it affects 1 target and only for pets. Since pets are usualy rooted or calmed in mass pvp engineer becomes blocker totem only in mass pvp.

    2. We will lose 726 offence from pet buffs. I hope new pet ar will be an adequate, becouse we will lose possibility to do any harm to evaders especially to bureaucrats and fixers.

    3. Trade skill for nano buffing is a stupid idia, becouse size of trade skills for this nanos much more than we need to have for top craft. My guide helps you to realise how much base skills we need for craft. I'm affraid we lose possibility to use any weapon with new Tskill requaerments, becouse IP cost of new setup will be higher. I would not like to comment what most of engineers will chose to be a crafter or to be a weaponer.

    4. Root/snare pet immun redused from 76% to 30%. It will be more easyer to root/snare our pets.

    5. Blockers. ATM it's possible to remove it by 3 specials: burst, fling, AS. So fixers, crats, engineers, docs, Envy soldiers, Advs have possability to remove it solo by right special combo. 5 special blockers are 100% removable by this professions for 12 seconds and 18 seconds we have no deffence. (i'm not mind if you are going allow people to use only 2 special such as fling ore burst + AS ore FA)
    1. cc in general is being nerfed pvp wise, so while your pets may get rooted/calmed it wont be as permenant.

    2. I doubt they would have removed it if they werent planning to add equal if not more to the base stats of the pets.

    3. I dont get this... your complaining because rather than having to raise both nanoskills and tradeskills to cast nanos and craft, you now just need to raise your tradeskills a bit further above what you need to do your crafting? How is that a higher ip cost? your basically getting refunded all your nanoskills IP (some of which are fairly expensive) to put into light cheap skills and then have a bit spare left over to deal with, not a great deal granted but potentially more.

    4. see 1, cc in general is being nerfed.

    5. I love how some of the largest ac buffs (they aren't completely worthless and they will hopefully be less worthless come rebalance) in the game, reflects basically on par with soldiers and some fairly decent defense perk such as coon completely disappears when blockers end...

    And farlath, I would point out pets do have a 100% taunt proc along with their reflect ripper aura at the moment, and hopefully trimmers will be better.

  4. #84
    I'm not a eng but... the tradeskilling nanoprogs are so awesome.

    P.s.: Did Kintaii said traders will get tradeskill in wrangles and drains, NR perk will have tradeskills debuffs and MP NSD will be completely reworked to stop tradeskill nanoprogs as well?
    Lainbr - 220/30/70 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - E / Spirals - 220/30/70 Enforcer Solitus - E / Kokusho - 201/22/55 Fixer Nanomage - Equip Soon ;o
    Traderbr - 180/0/0 Trader Nanomage - / Kaoru - 60/0/0 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - totw semitwink
    Proud veteran of Spartans

    To devs: You failed redesigning MPs as NTs with pets. I want my debuffer back.
    Dreamer: Basically - I wish THIS much effort was put in to ALL profs rebalance docs.

    Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with
    Anarrina: Trust me, I'm not that scary in real life.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    To everyone raising concerns about the blind nerf: As we've stated before (and, knowing how this goes, will have to state again), the changes we're making to the professions are with the totality of the rebalancing in mind - NOT while taking into consideration the current state of balance in the game. Things like the blind nerf are *not* going to be as bad as it appears when taken in the context of *where we're going*.

    Comparing anything in the balance documentation with the current state of the game is just going to give you guys a headache and isn't really worth it. Just try to remember that this is all part of a larger picture that we're headed towards, not anything to do with the current state of balance in the game. =)
    Might you shed some light on what global combat changes will be made to the game to make smaller debuffs more powerful - like say, the new proposed DVP?
    Towerblock, 220/30/70 Engineer
    President of Steadfast

    And way too many alts...

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Kari View Post
    Hm. Will wait to see what new utils/huds/other new ideas come along.

    *) Comp Master Tradeskills appears to have a 100 level lock, but needs spec 3. Are you telling me you can get spec 3 at 100 after the changes?

    *) Why, why WHY are pet animas down to two mins? SOTOS ok, was historically short, but it was an extra. Do you really hate us that much that you give us an extra chore? I mean I'm *really* going to enjoy swapping a couple of things round every couple of minutes to buff my pets, thanks for adding fun! I can't see any reason whatsoever for this change, other than OCD completeness.

    New dog from Scheol. OK you really do hate us :P
    Think of it as similar to the MP's Comp Infuse.

  7. #87
    Fun fact #XXVIII: Now, popping bots will be usually done in the org HQ, if you can't find a trader.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    Comparing anything in the balance documentation with the current state of the game is just going to give you guys a headache and isn't really worth it. Just try to remember that this is all part of a larger picture that we're headed towards, not anything to do with the current state of balance in the game. =)
    It's great to get these and all. But hindsight being 20/20 it does feel a little bit like being a blindfolded donkey that can smell a carrot hanging up there but also smell the fuel for the chainsaw that is about to start...
    Eroz, finally 220/26/70 Adventurer & proud General of Regulators on ex-RK2 (outdated) equip
    Rokroland, 170 Engineer No more crab for j00 Northern Front on ex-RK2
    Ranged roxxorz!
    Sig last updated properly when West Athens still had people sitting about the subway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Siahanor View Post
    Complaining about the realism of height changing mechanics in a game that has people who can channel their anger to make huge killer meatballs.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Dancingrage View Post
    Think of it as similar to the MP's Comp Infuse.
    CI needs 100 to cast; CmT needs 100 to cast also. CI needs spec 1, CmT needs spec 3. One would hope that it's merely a C&P typo.

    I really would like to know more about how the new blinds are going to be as effective as the old ones in PvE too, coz I'm not buying it at the moment. Plenty of the others know far more about PvP than I, so I'll leave the raging to them.

  9. #89
    Okay, I'm back. More awake and less cranky now. Looking over the docs in more detail now...

    Overall, I am very impressed by the depth of these changes, and the amount of thought that has obviously gone into them. That doesn't mean I agree with it all, but still quite impressive.

    I'm going to skip the big ones here (TSkill reqs, blockers, off. auras), since they're already getting enough attention in other posts.

    General comments first, then individual lines.

    • New Icons are awesome. Huge thumbs up there.

    • What is up with all the team-cast nanos? Two big annoyances here:
      (A) When someone just wants a quick buff, having to team them to do so can be a pretty big hassle at times.
      (B) When in a raid situation, NCU fills up pretty fast as it is. Having to deal with canceling irrelevent spammed team buffs (*cough* Iron Circle *cough*) to fit more useful ones is quite annoying.

    • The collapsing of multiple lines together, in particular the target and aoe buffs, is quite confusing. Please reconsider this approach. Perhaps by changing the current auras to a raid-wide cast instead of true AOE, but still keeping them seperate from longer-duration self/target/team buffs.

    • When will Does Nothing actually do something?

    • Reflect changes are nice. Buffing ourselves and pets in one swoop is a great touch. Glad to see the target versions are being kept up as well.

    • The auto-detection for appropriate tradeskill buff for targets level is nice, I guess, but since we'll still have all the lower forms available anyway, kinda redundant. Am I also correct to assume similar changes will be made to trader's ts buff lines and MP Composites?

      Individual buffs losing the SL req is long overdue.

    • Personally, I would have liked to have see the MA buff separated from the slayer morph, but it's OK. That's mostly just my personal distaste for morphs talking.

    • The boost to EP is much appreciated. Other new wep buffs are nice, now we just need weapons from those lines worth using.

    • AC and Absorb boosts are nice and welcomed. As are the pet heals.

    • The new doggy and lowered req on the Annhilator are ofcourse a very welcome change.

    • Pet offensive buffs need longer duration. 2 minutes is way too short. Moving it back to 7ish would be ideal, but even somewhere around 4-5 mins would be improvement enough.



    And now I've been sitting here trying to write this post for 2 hours now. I'm sure I missed some stuff, but I need a break.
    Because Race Yalm

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    To everyone raising concerns about the blind nerf: As we've stated before (and, knowing how this goes, will have to state again), the changes we're making to the professions are with the totality of the rebalancing in mind - NOT while taking into consideration the current state of balance in the game. Things like the blind nerf are *not* going to be as bad as it appears when taken in the context of *where we're going*.

    Comparing anything in the balance documentation with the current state of the game is just going to give you guys a headache and isn't really worth it. Just try to remember that this is all part of a larger picture that we're headed towards, not anything to do with the current state of balance in the game. =)
    This *sort of* answers concerns about the fact that currently debuffing a player we're fighting by 350 AR wouldn't actually help us. If you want to placate us, you can tell us which professions will be dropped below the AR necessary to perk us in a reasonable PvP setup (and again if both toons are pushed to the limits) by the new DVP.

    It would be stupid of us to just assume that you guys will make that work for us. When it comes to questions of who will be perking whom, you have a track record of confusing randomness and insufficient communication (god help me I'm trying not to sound like one of those horrible MMO critics with a towering sense of entitlement, the "you guys owe me!" stance is not a flattering one, but I'm worried, and legitimately so). So: Who will be dropped below the AR needed to perk us when debuffed by 350 AR?





    This stuff about keeping "the totality of rebalancing" in mind... that doesn't seem relevant to the fact that DVP will stop being a useful crowd control tool for PvM. That's simply something very useful we're losing. If there's another way to look at it, let's hear it please.
    Last edited by -Stage-; Nov 13th, 2010 at 00:19:05.
    <Lazy> who knew ao f*rum denizens were such homophobes?

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    Dagenham Radioactive courier
    Fascinated Elderly nature enthusiast

  11. #91
    Wonderful changes, all-around it is everything I have wanted with the added bonus of tradeskill based casting.

    Also for the blind debuff QQ, shouldn't regular blockers stop...I dunno...mob hits? The blind won't break everyhit and you ignore an additional 2 hits that usually happen when your pets, who will be taunting more and recieving better healing, lose aggro.

    Seriously I do not think you guys think through anything, at all, just complain, all the time.

  12. #92
    Terrible, just terrible.

    Tradeskills for nanos? This alone makes the nano doc more significant than every other one posted so far. You are asking every single engy to reset nanoskills and max tradeskills and reequip all their symbs. Not just pistol engies, or SL engies, or pvp engies. Every one. You would have been better off to remove useless tradeskills altogether.

    2 minutes on pet damage buff? Do you read our wishlist and do the opposite?

    Shotgun buff? Cool, do we have access to silverback? Then who cares?

    RE buff? You are about 3 years late there guys.

    I see you left team reflect at 29 and single reflect at 30 just for the annoyance factor.

    Reflect debuff is a -35% pet proc with 3s duration. Has there ever been a worse idea on how to change this nano?

    ACs: don't care

    Damage shield: don't care

    I'm not really sure how the new blockers work (and it seems noone else is either). But any reduction is death, death! I do like that the normal attack blocker gives them purpose in pvm though.

    Good things:
    Pet debuff removal
    Now, one of the reasons we’ve spent the last month arguing about the debt ceiling is that half of the "teabag" Congress signed a vow to never raise taxes. Someone just handed them something and it wasn’t a gun, a crucifix or a fetus — so they signed it. Why? "Because we’re rugged individuals who love freedom. Now excuse us while we sign this document swearing to do as we’re told." --Bill Maher

  13. #93
    New changes looks rly nice Looking forward to it.

    Except duration of pet buffs...its bad as it is now and the reason why many ppl quit engis ( swaping stuff every few min to recast buffs is fun killer ) so i rly hope that will change in some way so we can all enjoy it :P

    But rly nice job FC, i feel ima enjoy this game once again after long long time

    Cheers
    Xarr 220/30/70 Atrox Keeper
    Xarrdas 220/30/70 Solitus Engineer
    Wrathwithin 220/26/70 Atrox Agent
    Drimarcus 220/22/60 Opifex Shade
    Mycurse 214/18/42 Solitus Soldier
    Backend 150/20/40 Opifex MA
    Leethium 200/20/60 Opifex Bureaucrat

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Xenotric View Post
    5. I love how some of the largest ac buffs (they aren't completely worthless and they will hopefully be less worthless come rebalance) in the game, reflects basically on par with soldiers and some fairly decent defense perk such as coon completely disappears when blockers end...
    AC's mean practically nothing in pvp (at least at tl7), soldiers have significantly higher self reflects (not even counting AMS), and coon pretty much does disappear when blockers end...

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Technogen View Post
    Yes/no the blocker caster has a 40s lockout, but the blockers refresh every 30s
    ........... I think, I"m not sure all the sudden this document is kinda confusing.
    [Losthopebot] Lordstage: I asked Kintaii about blockers on IRC, and said he has no idea and told me to PM Genele
    [Losthopebot] Ministorage: so you can has explain blockers ella?
    [Losthopebot] Losthopebot: [Safety Not Guaranteed] Stabbingella: you'd have more success with asking tech...
    [Losthopebot] Ministorage: he said he didnt know!
    [Losthopebot] Losthopebot: [Safety Not Guaranteed] Stabbingella: and you expect me to know?
    So no one, including our professionals and Kintaii, can explain exactly how blockers are supposed to work in the future. More info pl0x
    Now, one of the reasons we’ve spent the last month arguing about the debt ceiling is that half of the "teabag" Congress signed a vow to never raise taxes. Someone just handed them something and it wasn’t a gun, a crucifix or a fetus — so they signed it. Why? "Because we’re rugged individuals who love freedom. Now excuse us while we sign this document swearing to do as we’re told." --Bill Maher

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by quieter456 View Post
    So no one, including our professionals and Kintaii, can explain exactly how blockers are supposed to work in the future. More info pl0x
    That's A+ communication thar!
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    I think you're wrong. I think AO is the most balanced MOBA out there.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by quieter456 View Post
    So no one, including our professionals and Kintaii, can explain exactly how blockers are supposed to work in the future. More info pl0x
    From what I understand from the document.

    You can cast blockers every 2 mins. Insta-cast pretty much.
    Casting blockers at 215+ means:

    1. a team aura with 6 special blockers and 6 normal attack blockers.
    2. a pet aura providing 6 special and 6 normal attack blockers too.

    Blockers refresh every 30 secs? *Edit* don't think so. I think they last 30 secs.. and that's it, from what I read.
    Last edited by Ocene; Nov 13th, 2010 at 03:06:25.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Ocene View Post
    Blockers refresh every 30 secs? *Edit* don't think so. I think they last 30 secs.. and that's it, from what I read.
    Single ones refreshs, Team ones dont.
    Lainbr - 220/30/70 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - E / Spirals - 220/30/70 Enforcer Solitus - E / Kokusho - 201/22/55 Fixer Nanomage - Equip Soon ;o
    Traderbr - 180/0/0 Trader Nanomage - / Kaoru - 60/0/0 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - totw semitwink
    Proud veteran of Spartans

    To devs: You failed redesigning MPs as NTs with pets. I want my debuffer back.
    Dreamer: Basically - I wish THIS much effort was put in to ALL profs rebalance docs.

    Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with
    Anarrina: Trust me, I'm not that scary in real life.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    To everyone raising concerns about the blind nerf: As we've stated before (and, knowing how this goes, will have to state again), the changes we're making to the professions are with the totality of the rebalancing in mind - NOT while taking into consideration the current state of balance in the game. Things like the blind nerf are *not* going to be as bad as it appears when taken in the context of *where we're going*.

    Comparing anything in the balance documentation with the current state of the game is just going to give you guys a headache and isn't really worth it. Just try to remember that this is all part of a larger picture that we're headed towards, not anything to do with the current state of balance in the game. =)
    So I take it that NPCs (mobs) will be rebalanced as well?

  20. #100
    Ah yes I was reading the team ones.

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