Will FC change any pvp level ranges?

[Gridpain]

How about you cut the BS as well? You're telling me you can't figure out what levels avoid pocketed 170 twinks? If you can't, maybe I have assumed too much about your arithmetic abilities. Back to school with you.

Ok, so you choose to hide behind the "If you are too dumb to figure out yourself, I wont tell you" BS...

So ... explain to me ... take 10 players vs 10 players.

Side 1 takes 10 level 150
Side 2 takes 6 level 170, 2 doc 210, and 2 220

Who wins ?

Or do you realy mean that Side 1 should attack with a force of level 135 toons ? In that case, Side 2 can bring "lower than 170" toons and bring 205 docs as support instead.

As long as 201+ will be able to attack / heal TL5, this will be used.

[Obtena]

Or do you realy mean that Side 1 should attack with a force of level 135 toons ? In that case, Side 2 can bring "lower than 170" toons and bring 205 docs as support instead.

As long as 201+ will be able to attack / heal TL5, this will be used.

I'm not hiding behind anything because the answer is THERE. You're just being dense and appearing ignorant, thinking it will make your point to everyone. I like your imagination because there aren't 205 doctors supporting TL5 wars but that's not really the issue here and it avoids the question I put to you. What level twink avoids TL5 twinks pocketed by TL7, or even 200+ for that matter? You just don't want to answer it because it makes my point complete, as well as making you guys look as bad at NW as it appears from your QQing. Regardless, I'm right. Go roll some more twinks if you don't like your TL5 NW situation on your server.

[Gridpain]

I'm not hiding behind anything because the answer is THERE. You're just being dense, thinking it will make your point. I like your imagination because there aren't 205 doctors supporting TL5 wars but that's not really the issue here and it avoids the question I put to you. What level twink avoids TL5 twinks pocketed by TL7?

I give up, I m to dumb for you...

I m so dumb I dont even find solution on how to attack a QL 170 CT with twinks out of range of 170 twinks...

[Obtena]

So, what is the prevalence of 170 CT's at TL5 sites? You know that's about as probable as your pool of NW-specific 205 doctors ... next to nothing. The occurrence of a 205 doctor pocketing a 165 toon at a TL5 war or the existence of a 170 CT are so small, it doesn't justify even thinking about it changing anything.

AGAIN ... what level twink do you need to roll to avoid TL5's being pocketed by 200+ toons? It's not a hard question.

[Gridpain]

So, what is the prevalence of 170 CT's at TL5 sites? About the same as your pool of 205 doctors?

About the same as the existence of your arguements.

[Obtena]

Strike three ... The argument is simple so I will remind you. You can avoid TL5's pocketed by 200+ toons if you roll the right level so FC doesn't need to fix anything. You still can't tell me what that level is? That's fine, that's why you fail at NW. It's not the mechanics that don't work, it's the fact you don't know how they work.

[Gridpain]

Strike three ...

I m out.

I ve done my share of Troll-feeding this week.

[Armus]

How about you cut the BS as well? You're telling me you can't figure out what levels avoid pocketed 170 twinks? If you can't, maybe I have assumed too much about your arithmetic abilities. Back to school with you.

Yes we ARE too dumb to figure it out. So explain it to us. Or is it a sekrit?

[Scottik]

Well, yes it is related to NW strategy. Choosing the right levels for your NW twinks and using them in the right situations is a strategy and it's clear that far to many people are ignoring it. No, they don't scale properly. That's true. That's why you should avoid them by rolling proper level twinks.

What you are proposing is basically a hotfix. But this topic is about actual fixing of this issue which means adjusting game mechanichs and not just avoiding them.

[Armus]

Did you and others reroll 150 twinks to prove me wrong?

No we didn't because we don't care much about your opinions. History has shown that your way of reasoning leads to non existent NW. It doesn't matter if you think it's the fault of the community or not. The result is there, free for everyone without blindfolds to see.

Eq (my own org) does have a lil over 80 level 150 characters. About twice what your org does. We also have 18 126 twinks. About 3 times what you do. It's safe to say that we have all our bases covered, forgive the pun.

But all that is is USELESS because noone ever makes any serious attacks because noone enjoys tl5 NW as it is today. You surely can't deny that ppl don't. Because if you do you have some serious truth problems.


[QUOTE=Obtena;5952487]
Nope? OK, then you haven't proved anything except you want to rehash old nonsense. All this has been covered already so if you aren't bringing something new to the table, you don't really have a point.

If you aren't smart enough to deal with the strategy part of the NW, FC shouldn't be tasked to hardcode it in for you and you don't have grounds to QQ about it.

Ok let's say you control 13 fields and have controlled 10-15 for the last two years. You haven't really lost anything for any longer period of time during those years.

Does that mean that I fail. If so how am I failing?

Wouldn't it be logical to start looking for reasons why noone every tries anything over level 100 It is for me at least. But we all know the answer, don't we?
Yes you may think you have a solution but whatever it may be it's evidently not something that works for the vast majority of the community. Or we would see more action, wouldn't we?

So let's stop being egotistical and let's ask for something that will mean that tl5 NW gets high attendance again, shall we?

[Obtena]

What you are proposing is basically a hotfix. But this topic is about actual fixing of this issue which means adjusting game mechanichs and not just avoiding them.

I haven't proposed anything for a fix. Players just need to roll twinks so they can have different strategies when these issues arise.

[Obtena]

But all that is is USELESS because noone ever makes any serious attacks because noone enjoys tl5 NW as it is today. You surely can't deny that ppl don't. Because if you do you have some serious truth problems.

That's just your interpretation. If people don't enjoy NW, then they should roll the right level twinks if the laddering is what makes it unenjoyable for them. It's a simple solution.

[Armus]

AGAIN ... what level twink do you need to roll to avoid TL5's being pocketed by 200+ toons? It's not a hard question.

Realistically you need to be level 126 or so to avoid 207's pocketing 165's.

Funny thing is, what happened to tl5's here? You want to use mid level tl4's for tl5 wars. You've already conceeded that tl5 is impossible then. How nice of you to admit that to us all.

[Obtena]

126 is nice, 130 is better. And yes, that's called strategy and you can't ignore it ... it's at all TL's. TL5 isn't impossible either, it's just not appropriate for every case. Nothing happened to them. It's the same story as always. You have a library of twinks, you choose the ones you need based on each situation.

[Armus]

I haven't proposed anything for a fix. Players just need to roll twinks so they can have different strategies when these issues arise.

Okay. Again. My org has tons of twinks at every level imaginable and then some. We also have tons and tons of tower fields.

How exactly do I make omnis attack me? How do I get my action?

[Armus]

126 is nice, 130 is better. And yes, that's called strategy and you can't ignore it ... it's at all TL's. TL5 isn't impossible either, it's just not appropriate for every case.

Guess what. We (Equilibrium) took out plenty of tl5 fields just that way when omnis had tl5-tl7. It's doable, for us. But it's NOT a valid strategy for 98% of the server population. The zero action proves it.

Then again the whole idea of having to use tl4 toons to kill tl5 towers just because the level ranges are unbalanced is stupid. We shouldn't have to do that. And again, the community has spoken. And they don't give a rats ass about your 130's.

So we can either be mature and look into changing things so that ppl can enjoy tl5 nw, or we can blame them and make sure NW stays dead.

I know I prefer i to be alive.

[Obtena]

Okay. Again. My org has tons of twinks at every level imaginable and then some. We also have tons and tons of tower fields.

How exactly do I make omnis attack me? How do I get my action?

You can't, but that's not exclusively a problem with TL7 pockets. That's can also be a problem with omni apathy and history shows that even when Tl7 pockets didn't exist, apathy was a cause for lack of tower war activity. You have created a fallacy where you think Tl7 pockets is the only reason for no activity in TL5. That's not the only plausible reason there isn't any action happening at that level. You just fail to admit that.

How much or how little is that lack of action attributable to the TL7 pockets? Considering that there was as many and as long periods of inactivity BEFORE the PVP level rules were extended to 220, I would say it's not a significant factor. Even if it is, there is still nothing stopping people from making the right twinks to avoid the TL7 pocketing issue ... other than their own apathy (or apparently, the difficulty of arithmetic for many people). Will removing pocketing from TL5 wars remove the inacitivty? it depends how it's done, but I bet it's not likely, since there was inactivity before TL7 pocketing existed and since FC won't make an exception to TL5 for laddering immunity.

Anyways, look back in the thread. Whatever needs to be said has already been said. As I mentioned already, you haven't brought anything new here to expand this discussion further. Maybe the thread needs a lock.

[Obtena]

Then again the whole idea of having to use tl4 toons to kill tl5 towers just because the level ranges are unbalanced is stupid. We shouldn't have to do that. And again, the community has spoken. And they don't give a rats ass about your 130's.

Nothing stupid about it ... if you want to avoid TL7 pocketed twinks AND win NW. Considering it's a completely valid and intended strategy, I can't understand why it's 'stupid'. From where I sit, it's the MOST intelligent move to one-up these pocketed TL5 twinks.

In addition, you do not represent the voice of the community, nor does your rants. Nor is it even relevant if you did represent the majority of people that don't want this strategy to exist at TL5, so stop using that to increase the validity of your position.

[Armus]

Nothing stupid about it ... if you want to avoid TL7 pocketed twinks AND win NW. Considering it's a completely valid and intended strategy, I can't understand why it's 'stupid'

It's stupid because a whole range of toons is disabled by the power delta between tl5 and low tl7. You're not trying to claim that FC intended the same tl5 twinks that ppl enjoy in bs to be useless outside, are you?

unless you're trying to describe the people that don't want to make those level twinks.

Yes that's exactly the case. And that's what we've been saying from day one. The community has spoken. And the answer is loud an clear, it doesn't enjoy tl5 nw as it is today.

You do not represent the voice of the community, nor does your rants.

Oh dear. 3 years of zero NW and you still think you're right! That speaks for itself.

[Obtena]

It's stupid because a whole range of toons is disabled by the power delta between tl5 and low tl7. You're not trying to claim that FC intended the same tl5 twinks that ppl enjoy in bs to be useless outside, are you?

It's hard not to make that claim at all. In fact, I would like to be noted as one of the very few (or only person) to recognize that BS and NW twinks are completely different because of the laddering dynamic in NW. If I recall, FC implemented the extension of the TL5 range by applying the laddering rules from 200 up to 220 BEFORE BS existed. Even if it was after the fact, I wouldn't be all that shocked if the BS ranges were made without any consideration for NW ... in fact to me it's obvious. After a few iterations of changing BS level ranges now, they still don't correspond to any logical NW levels. They can't really ... because one is fixed levels, the other is dynamic, depending on who is participating. In fact, it would be foolhardy to claim FC are attempting to link NW and BS level ranges somehow because if that's the case, they are failing miserably.