Will FC change any pvp level ranges?

[Ocene]

Wow, spelling nazi comes out and I'm the troll? Even for a troll, that's a bush league tactic. I guess nothing I said was wrong then if you are grasping at that straw. Is that a /win for me?

I'm not judging on your spelling. I just highlighted the fact that you admit being a troll...that knows arithmetic, but a troll nevertheless .

[Obtena]

I don't see how that's relevant to the discussion really. I made my points. You call me a troll because i defend them and you disagree with them. If that makes my posts trolling, that makes your's nonsense. I'm admitting I'm a troll? Sure, only if you are being nonsensical.

Here is another approach to the problem ... let's say FC commits to fixing this. How long are you going to wait for that fix? If it takes a year, are you still going to remove yourself from TL5 NW activity? Are you really looking out for the interests of the game or just your own? I see the people that truely enjoy NW taking the proper approach and dealing with it through the many ways there are available.

[agentwolve]

It sure sounds like it to me. We have TL5 tower battles. You make it sound like there are none on RK1.

thats funny i remember hearing about racsense destroying tl5 tower single handedly long ago.

[Obtena]

It's funny because it happened or ...?

I mean, people that debate if TL5 towers happen or not can just check that Towers attack database thing to check it. I don't have the link. Let's not play stupid word games ... they NEVER happen? Bull****. There was some on RK2 just last weekend on a N. America Saturday night if I remember properly. There was alot of people there attack and defense. There was even some 207 twinks there and no one EMOquit .. they just logged the right twinks and support.

Sorry, these 'never' happening TL5 battles aren't reasons to nerf laddering past TL5. You people just need to learn to deal with it.

[Ocene]

Here is another approach to the problem ... let's say FC commits to fixing this. How long are you going to wait for that fix? If it takes a year, are you still going to remove yourself from TL5 NW activity? Are you really looking out for the interests of the game or just your own? I see the people that truely enjoy NW taking the proper approach and dealing with it through the many ways there are available.

I'm always looking at the game changes in the interest of everyone.

You have people here from RK2 that say this is a problem, and you have people here from RK1 that say this is a problem. It's a nobrainer to me: there is a problem.

If FC doesn't want to modify the ranges and make them self-contained, then fine. I'll just wait for you guys to go to Tara, or make any attempt at TL7 NW, but I will be done with TL5 for sure.

[Obtena]

I don't believe you, simply because it's not everyone's interest to make this change. It's not in the interest of people that rool their twinks according to the current rules. They aren't the exceptions here, you are, even if the people with 165+ twinks are the majority or not. I really hope FC doesn't make concessions just because it's nice for the haters of the current system.

The point you miss is that it's NOT a problem if you simply bring the right level toons .... like every other level range. Just because some people insist that they should be immune to laddering for NW when using their BS TL5 twinks doesn't make it into a problem.

TBH, your threat is funny ... it sounds like you are already done with TL5 NW anyways. Are people with 165+ twinks so pivotal to that part of the gamethat FC should change it so you come back? I don't think so. TBH, I don't think FC cares if TL5 NW is not as popular as it was a few years ago. If you like it enough, you will respect the rules and turn this situation to your advantage instead of crying about it all the time.

[Ocene]

You see a threat?

It's only an opinion, not a threat. TL5 can continue with the current rules. I'm not interested, so I won't attend. How can that be a threat?

[Obtena]

So that's what it's come to ... you arguing about my use of words? That's fine, I will just point you back to my previous post what re-asserts why it would be rather unreasonable to make a change to the laddering system based on many of the arguments that have been re-hashed over and over.

Anyways, why you do care? You already quit TL5 NW remember? Funny you accuse me of not doing NW or even playing the game while having no clue who I am, the whole time you ADMIT you stopped doing TL5 NW a long time ago. You didn't care enough about TL5 NW to stick around with all the problems, why should anyone think you have a genuine interest in having a change made at TL5 NW because it's 'good for the game'? Personally, I think you are full of crap. Go back to TL5 BS with your 170 advy and collect your kills and VP. Leave NW to people that know how to do it.

[Ocene]

I stopped a long time ago? no.

I didn't quit. I'm waiting to see what FC will do about this, and decide to retire my twink gimps or not. I won't quit the game because they didn't change this part. I don't care. I prefer TL7 PVP anyway. Shame you guys never come. I bet you would if you could roll level 300s to come deal with our 220s, it's how you play, we all understood it. And you call that skill. Good for you.

I think FC will make this change, keeping it like it is now makes no sense.

PS. Concerning me not knowing you, that's not the problem. The problem is that nobody on RK2 knows you.

[Obtena]

Nobody knows me? Ah ok. More like this ... if I WANT you to know me, I will LET you know me. Sorry i'm not meeting your standards for being famous on RK2 but I can assure you that how well I'm known to you or anyone else has little to do with my in-game experiences. Glad to see you admit you actually don't care about this topic and prefer TL7 PVP anyways. I guess that makes it clear how highly regarded your opinion should be on this.

You didn't quit TL5 NW, but you are done with TL5 NW for sure? Let me know how that works.

[geturmoney]

back to topic guys!

we need a new pvp range. cant be true that lvl 220 which are 130 lvl higher can attack lvl 170 greys..

151-200 and 201-220 sounds good to me..

[Ocene]

cant be true that lvl 220 which are 130 lvl higher can attack lvl 170 greys..

qft

[Pomidor]

There is no problem and never was - its been made by players for their own moaning purposes.

If you dont want to be ganked by 207, at yours 170 toon which was made to gnak 150ish, roll 160 toon and u are safe, and still can compete with those 170 and slay those 150ish and below.

If your 150 S10/pvp wannabe char is gnaked by those 170ish S10 slayers, roll new char at lvl 130, and u still can compete (mostlikely with succes) vs 150ish. Its not probloem by Game side, but lack of skills and thinking at players side.

Lately I am more involved into Tl4 PVP, and things I see are trully simple - no skills=no kills. Lots of moaning too!

[Shrubberyman]

Excepted the "I can't see the problem so there is prolly no problem" lobby so far failed abysmally at justifying that twinks (in the sense of "stopped at the right level") have claimed ownership of NW at the detriment of leveling toons.

The fact some people with a 220 main and unlimited game time managed to accomodate themselves of the system over the years doesn't mean that a system where there is more "wrong" levels than "right" ones isn't a fundamentally flawed system.

Every time one of you guys mention "right" or "wrong" level toons, you implicitly acknowledge the system is exclusive instead of inclusive.

It's high time for NW to be reappropriated by the whole player base instead of the same handful of no-lifers. You would be surprised at how many people wouldn't object at being ownd by twinks in their level league instead of just having to stay away of NW because of toons 2 titles, 30+ levels and a few Shadowlevels higher.


PS : lol at "lack of skill"... uber skills to be able to ... not level...

[Ocene]

A 207 healed by a 220 while it's fighting a 170 is a problem.

It's not fair, it's cheating mechanics, and it's just DUMB.

[Pomidor]

Character involved in PVP should not be able to take actions/get actions from players outside targets PVP range - thats true and it mess things. But its the same, when lvl 100 doc comes over for lvl 75ish NW to CH them. What you will do? Bring lvl 126 to kill doc. To bad, there is no 300 chars, cause anyone would bring them to kill 300.

Anyways, this should be fixed to prevent Pocket healing.

Also, from what I have read here, what I have read in-game, and my personal searches/in-deept analyses, players want just be POWERFUL w/o much effort. This leads to topic like this.

When said player is lvl 170 and can gank inferior lvl 150, he is happy, but when it turns out he gots ganked by 207 (which was made for this only purpose!) its bad. Whining about this is seeing nothing else but ur pity situation of not accepting that game is about OTHER who want to be superior in some way. Saying this, I will add one thing: please note its common (since years of SL relase, thats important) that lvl 150+ is most uused in PVP (duels, gnakfests, city wars, nw), but its alos most timetakeing compareing to low/mid 30-100, and much more expansive, why is that so? Cause there is no skills involved (to most), just pressing buttons for PERKS, which makes everything for player - thats why I cans ee gimps and not skilled players whineing about soldeirs useing TMS, MAs useing Doc or Advies poping Coon - they dont have this buttons, nor skills, so they fail. Why I said this? Because those who think are good, sucks in major PVP, which is also choseing lvl to be, to gain an adventage - no metter what, they will whine about being ganked, and will be silent happy to be able to gank. You think I am wrong?

Take a look at BS PVP DUELS, where players pick others to PVP - mostlikely they chose inferior class or lvl, so they know they win and will deny duel of higher LVL player (excuses ect.) or better geared, or clas wise better vs himself. Thats why most 150 dont duel 170 (deny duels), or pick those belov 140 (in this example they widely chose to pvp my doc... and I accept those fights, if player is new to me). This example spreads all over PVP, which is also NW. So the borked mechanics, which most claims to be, aint borked at all - its mechanics which allows to chose, and ppl fail in chosing in it.

[Shrubberyman]

That's an interesting (and prolly scary) essay on "PvPers'" and/or twinkers' psychology, but it doesn't in any way or form, tackle or even justify an exclusive system being left untouched.

[Obtena]

cant be true that lvl 220 which are 130 lvl higher can attack lvl 170 greys..

Problem solved ... 220's can't attack 170's.

[Obtena]

The fact some people with a 220 main and unlimited game time managed to accomodate themselves of the system over the years doesn't mean that a system where there is more "wrong" levels than "right" ones isn't a fundamentally flawed system.

Every time one of you guys mention "right" or "wrong" level toons, you implicitly acknowledge the system is exclusive instead of inclusive.

I'm not sure what you exactly mean by exclusive system. If you are referring to the fact that you need to know something about level ranges to 'play' NW properly, I can acknowledge that yes, for a new person breaking into it, it's something that there is no upfront information for ... you only learn the 25% rule word of mouth from people that know themselves. That's a failing of how AO runs in general for almost everything. It's certainly not a reason to change that rule in itself. The fix there is tutorials, not a change to laddering.

Unfortunately for 99% of the cryers here, they aren't new so they have no reason to use exclusivity as an reason to get the laddering changed so their TL5 BS twinks have the run of the field in NW.

The nature of NW itself is 'exclusive' from the POV that there are tiers of performance that you have to achieve to learn to play it. The lowest level is knowing how it works and what it is, the next is knowing how to PVP on your character, next up is twinking and finally, the tactical and strategic level stuff that allows you to lead, pick targets and organize attacks. If there wasn't this exclusivity of NW and teirs of performance, there wouldn't be any competition and achievement. It's not unlike sports.

Is that good for the game? I dunno, but seeing as NW battles do run and work, It works for enough people to the point where it exists. NW has been dumbed down in a sense with mechs and turrets, making it less exclusive but I really doubt that at any point, FC is going to make changes to it so a med suit gimp can stand toe to toe against uber twinks.

[Shrubberyman]

I'm not sure what you exactly mean by exclusive system. If you are referring to the fact that you need to know something about level ranges to 'play' NW properly, I can acknowledge that yes, for a new person breaking into it, it's something that there is no upfront information for ... you only learn the 25% rule word of mouth from people that know themselves. That's a failing of how AO runs in general for almost everything. It's certainly not a reason to change that rule in itself. The fix there is tutorials, not a change to laddering.

From my pov, what you describe is indeed part of the problem, but as I am pretty certain that we both have have a good upview of the situation, we will have to agree we disagree on whether or not the very system itself is well-though to start with.
I consider as exclusive a system where you can't join PvP occurences with the certitude you are gonna fight toons of your league. The corollary is I consider as exclusive a system which brands as "no go" more than half the levels of a Title.

The nature of NW itself is 'exclusive' from the POV that there are tiers of performance that you have to achieve to learn to play it. The lowest level is knowing how it works and what it is, the next is knowing how to PVP on your character, next up is twinking and finally, the tactical and strategic level stuff that allows you to lead, pick targets and organize attacks. If there wasn't this exclusivity of NW and teirs of performance, there wouldn't be any competition and achievement. It's not unlike sports.

Reworking laddering wouldn't affect the tiers you're mentioning. And the comparison to sports is interesting. Leagues, categories, rankings, weights, all are systems specifically made to pit teams/sportsmen of comparable level and/or performance against each other, for fair game. Muhammad Ali did not boxed a extra-light opponent. A Mini Austin doesn't suit a F1 Grand Prix. Federer doesn't attend Santiago's west district tennis tournament.

Is that good for the game? I dunno, but seeing as NW battles do run and work, It works for enough people to the point where it exists. NW has been dumbed down in a sense with mechs and turrets, making it less exclusive but I really doubt that at any point, FC is going to make changes to it so a med suit gimp can stand toe to toe against uber twinks.

I would hardly say they "run and work". The amount of activity is purely based on the obsessive nature of a few dedicated bored ones. New blood is rare, at best. And that's just considering what I can witness on RK2, seems like RK1 is quieter. Just because something still gives some sign of lives doesn't mean it's in good shape...
However, I don't think either that FC will make it so that a med suit gimp can stand toe to toe against uber twinks. But what they probably will do (if they do anything, granted) is just tighten the ranges.
To me, only two systems deserve to be defended : one without ranges and just a bloody and brutal battle for domination, or one where pvp ranges actually do what they intend to do, which is propose everyone with a challenge in their reach.