Quo vadis profession weapons?

[Kopecz]

stuff about pvm

I aggred something is badly wrong, but stop saying "Support Profs are OP" (well advs are)

Yes, if advys are so OP in pvm please tell me the last time an advy has been in the top dd of a raid. Haven't seen that in a while? Yet I've certainly seen crats and engis in top pvm dd. So who's more OP by your own logic?

[Josephina]

Agreed. But the reason they exist is what is wrong with the whole picture. And that is something the rebalancing needs to fix.

My thoughts as well. Unfortunately there is no easy fix. The stupid damage scaling after 1k AR would be the easiest problem to solve. And after that there are still many more issues with different skill levels and their effect on weapon damage.

[vios]

Yes, if advys are so OP in pvm please tell me the last time an advy has been in the top dd of a raid. Haven't seen that in a while? Yet I've certainly seen crats and engis in top pvm dd. So who's more OP by your own logic?

I wish my MP could be as gimped as your advy.

[Kopecz]

I wish my MP could be as gimped as your advy.

Not talking about MPs at all. They have their own set of problems and rightly need fixing. But complaining that Advys are OP in pvm when compared to engis or crats in terms of damage potential (since this is a thread about weapons) is silly.

[vios]

hehe, sorry them.

In my list anyway advy should not have as much damage output as engineers, sinces they are a more whole rounded profession. That doesn't mean they should be nerfed in damage, but engineers should be top DD in the list with soldiers (and some other clases), the difference comes from the difficulty of displaying the engineer toolset and the different damage sources both should have.

[Kopecz]

I agree that Engineers should be doing top tier dd. However, of the pistol using "damage" professions adventurers do have it rough in terms of damage output considering that they have no secondary forms of damage infliction.

In all honestly, the adventurer "support" toolset is not that powerful or relevant to today's game play. Of course that could be said of various other professions as well, which is why there's a rebalance act to begin with.

[Otinsainpas]

750 = AR_pet_profession = 0.75*AR_melee_profession = 3.5

what exactly does this mean?

[lainbr]

Not talking about MPs at all. They have their own set of problems and rightly need fixing. But complaining that Advys are OP in pvm when compared to engis or crats in terms of damage potential (since this is a thread about weapons) is silly.

I'm talking about Pet profs :P Kinda fun that u think Advs should do more damage than a pet prof mini army. Its the same to say: "I wanna OD 2/3 players", what soljas and shades already do.

[Gunfytr]

Yes, if advys are so OP in pvm please tell me the last time an advy has been in the top dd of a raid. Haven't seen that in a while? Yet I've certainly seen crats and engis in top pvm dd. So who's more OP by your own logic?

Mine is quite regularly.

/pro tip: Take the AS pistol off and put the JEPP back on.

[Kopecz]

Mine is quite regularly.

/pro tip: Take the AS pistol off and put the JEPP back on.

Thanks for that pro tip that I already apply. Curious though that other adventurers can't seem to.

[Pomidor]

I don't like weapon limits. If someone manages to get the skill he should be able to use it. The difference does not come with the weapon but with the weapon template.

While I agree with that to some point, there is part of me, connected to the game, that tells me its wrong - Way I fell it is about toolset as a majority of class power: limiting weapons to certain proffesion is boost its ability, while other must uses they toolset in other field (heals,roots, blinds, pets whatsover). Problem with this is, that player with poor gameing skills will have same weapon as (ie soldier, and will dead same dmg - that is ok to him, but good player, same proffesion, same weapon will get it work better, cause he will use his tollset, while soldier still has only his weapon.

As OP stated, there was reason some powerfull weapons were usable only by class meant to tank/deal damage, while others was forced to play their role, but now i see all about DMG (even small chats tells me something is wrong, where doc deals more dmg then soldier - but soldier cant heal).

Question made above is very important to me - I didnt realised how bad game went. Example? Building DD doc at lvl 126 and you can get close (cept FA) to total soldier dmg (I got both TL4 and 5), this makes easier to get DD team (where everyone deals DMG), but you wont be as much wanted as a doc who heals (fast kill - no threat, no death). As I stated ealier, I know how t play my proffesion (doc in this case), and its DD setuped, but as a support, I would like to see myself to be wanted due my heals. AO tends to get solo online - all expansions boosted DD to such exttent, that certain proffesions can solo pretty much everything.

[Kazeran]

Question made above is very important to me - I didnt realised how bad game went. Example? Building DD doc at lvl 126 and you can get close (cept FA) to total soldier dmg (I got both TL4 and 5), this makes easier to get DD team (where everyone deals DMG), but you wont be as much wanted as a doc who heals (fast kill - no threat, no death). As I stated ealier, I know how t play my proffesion (doc in this case), and its DD setuped, but as a support, I would like to see myself to be wanted due my heals. AO tends to get solo online - all expansions boosted DD to such exttent, that certain proffesions can solo pretty much everything.

You may see it in that extent but the problem could simply be that the sold is the one that needs improvement in that level range. Also doctors can attack multiple targets at once unlike a sold which can also change the DD rating by a large amount depending on the amount of extra mobs the doc has DoTed.

[erozc]

Mine is quite regularly.

/pro tip: Take the AS pistol off and put the JEPP back on.

Obligatory "lol, RK1" comment. Just because you can climb DD charts in raids, it's probably because other people are slacking. In modern raids (i.e. no zerg, so range doesn't help that much) there's no way you can hold your own to a decent shade/ma/crat/engie/soldier. And possibly a few others.

While I am not pushing for advys to be anywhere in the top 6 or so DD, it would be cool if there actually was support for the raids that is useful. A soldier brings so much more into the table in terms of damage mitigation and damage dealing. Engies are arguably more valuable in teams too than advies (reflect if you couldn't get a soldier, and yes the blind helps with adds, lots of DD), and crats are more useful than the previous two combined.

[Gunfytr]

Obligatory "lol, RK1" comment. Just because you can climb DD charts in raids, it's probably because other people are slacking. In modern raids (i.e. no zerg, so range doesn't help that much) there's no way you can hold your own to a decent shade/ma/crat/engie/soldier. And possibly a few others.

You dont know me, you've never teamed with me, and you've never raided with me. So you have no idea.

My point was that a well setup and played Ranged Advy CAN be quite good DD.

[erozc]

You dont know me, you've never teamed with me, and you've never raided with me. So you have no idea.

My point was that a well setup and played Ranged Advy CAN be quite good DD.

Yeah, true that I don't. Similarly, I could claim that top 5 and up in Zod raids used to be regular back in the zerg raids - when I went, I usually was. This was mostly due to not slacking, and using mini pit lizard instead of leet (hax! I guess Phatznet will ban me now). So your point does stand - a ranged advy can be "quite" good DD.

Still, I do have some idea of what is possible and what is not, self buffed or teamed. I have never owned a (e)RBP or ACDC, or actually used the suicide symb, but those can be approximated by stuff like DB/12m buffs. And I get a quite good idea of how far you can push it. So I stand by my previous argument that shade/eng/crat/ma/soldi are definitely going to OD you by a lot if they put similar effort into their setups, and button mashing.

But you can gladly prove me wrong. Show that setup where you have +900 more add damage than the usual ranged advies.

[Kopecz]

Max possible Advy dmg while running Machete Flurry no? Could have added Sinew, but I figured that was just too much of a sacrifice.

[erozc]

Max possible Advy dmg while running Machete Flurry no? Could have added Sinew, but I figured that was just too much of a sacrifice.

You also forgot this. You have Shadowstalker instead of lightstalker (auno issue, I guess), but you're also missing Ambidextrous 5. Wtf with the HHAB, if you go with the Berserker symb you're obviously not going to PvP. These with a quick look, there may be more.

Pro of non-poison damage setup is, you gain when teaming a soldier or fixer, since their dmg buffs don't stack with Poisonous Bite. Also, you can use Hasty Augmentation Cloud boosted-graft when solo.

[Hacre]

this is not about op or team buffs, this is about weapon damage.

i for one find it wrong that eg. agent run around with bows or shotguns for better damage but maybe that's just me.

ps. player of a profession ALWAYS feel like their profession needs more lub. that's not an argument, that's just proof of people's short sighted egocentric views.

You find it wrong that an Agent changes weapons to be good DD, but you're complaining that if Engineers go out of template and start using full auto, they get good DD? Your logic is lacking.

One of the great things about AO is that for the most part, any profession can be crowbarred into any weapon setup. How well it performs is another matter, but the point is, we can.

I agree that Engineers should be doing top tier dd. However, of the pistol using "damage" professions adventurers do have it rough in terms of damage output considering that they have no secondary forms of damage infliction.

In all honestly, the adventurer "support" toolset is not that powerful or relevant to today's game play. Of course that could be said of various other professions as well, which is why there's a rebalance act to begin with.

Adventurers also have tools to assist in the fact that their fights last longer. When a Crat is soloing, the Crat has absolutely zero damage mitigation, other than evades. At end game, mobs hit hard. More damage makes the fight shorter, a consequence that the Adventurer needs to deal with less.

You also forgot this. You have Shadowstalker instead of lightstalker (auno issue, I guess), but you're also missing Ambidextrous 5. Wtf with the HHAB, if you go with the Berserker symb you're obviously not going to PvP. These with a quick look, there may be more.

Pro of non-poison damage setup is, you gain when teaming a soldier or fixer, since their dmg buffs don't stack with Poisonous Bite. Also, you can use Hasty Augmentation Cloud boosted-graft when solo.

Possible that the HHAB was included since there was a lot of talk about DD at zods/beast.

Any profession can gear up for decent DD, or pro DD. The difference between the professions is how much needs to be sacrificed to get that DD performance.

A Soldier sacrifices much less to be decent DD than say, an Engineer, a Doc or a Crat. Sure a Crat can show up, rename pets and half arse it, but a PvP Soldier can pop off a 15k FA every 11s as well.

Too much is made of PvM DD. Who cares and why? What needs to be sorted out are the professions outside of the big four most desired. Soldier, Doc, Enf, Crat can take on any encounter in the game pretty much. Hell a Crat and a Doc can take all the Zods, TNH and Beast.

The others need to become more than just extra damage.

[Xootch]

You find it wrong that an Agent changes weapons to be good DD, but you're complaining that if Engineers go out of template and start using full auto, they get good DD? Your logic is lacking.

One of the great things about AO is that for the most part, any profession can be crowbarred into any weapon setup. How well it performs is another matter, but the point is, we can.

I never said that. I find it wrong that certain profession got weapons made especially for them with increased base damage to make up for their weaker template and skill. I'm all for open weapons for everyone. If you can't get the skill to equip a hexous ql 300 you just have to use a ql250 one or whatever. but you will have your pets or nukes or whatever to make up for that. what i find wrong is that eg. since mps can't get 2201 bow as easy they get a xan weapon with lower requirements - but increased damage. and many of the weapons following that logic are even profession locked, so other professions can't even abuse them - like agents do with xan bows and shotguns.