More health for the Atrox, and more nano pool for the Nanomage

[eaze]

Geeez, even more nanopool I will hardly ever use, since nano rechargers only come up to ql125 unless you want to blitz for 50 and 50. Nice idea funcom, great breed advantage.

[______________Yazule]

Originally posted by Wambly
Funny that I have two Trox after me ...

I haven't made any comment, yea or nay, about the HP adjustment. Only thing I have said concerning Atrox is that the breeds live up to their description without any benifits.


As for your attempts at insulting me:

I said MENTALITY .. didn't say word about if you graduated or not. Learn to read.
I run into that mentality talking with children, professionals and folks who are retired .. some just never grow up.

It wasn't meant as a come back, just an observation.
It is the immature that are the first to jump to insults when frustrated .... and evidently the fact I have my own opinion frustrates Z560 to no end.

If I were out to insult, I'd be banned ....

1) you called me a breedist, i agree with funcom's changes and therefore by your first post I am a breedist by your train of thought.

In all actuality you are the one that is the "breedist" hence my first post, which riled you up good

2) I honestly think either a) you are a breedist or b) you honestly have not thought about the changes they are talking about or c) you have never played one of these dissadvantaged classes to any reasonable level or d) you have some kind of learning disability. I honestly cant think of another reason to have your point of view.

3) please explain to me how 200hp at level 200 is "living up to the description". That is 1 hp more per level than soli you silly boy. At high levels this does not even equate to 1 hit, heck mobs between level 1 and 2 hit for more than 1 hp difference for that matter.

4) I am more entertained by your posts than frustrated or angered. You helped fill a boring friday at work with entertainment. THANKS

I honestly dont hold a thing against you, I just have NO idea where you are coming from and you have yet to describe to me how any of my points are invalid. On the other hand I have shown how your points are invalid, hence the problem lol. Well this is me "got home from work" post, I am off for the weekend (dont deal with the game when I have ANYTHING better to do).

Kudo's

have a great weekend!

PS. I will never grow up, learn to deal with it

grow up = grow old

[Sallust]

Wambly is just one of those who hates game changes obviously. This change doesn't effect him one way or another, except he just might not be able to be a "Ubergank" over someone.

Sorry, I just don't have time to argue with someone who wants someone else nerfed because they might come close to being equal with them.

Anyways it's nice that Funcom is finally fulfilling it's promise after a year. I hope that you still recognize that something else is going to be needed to balance Nanomage. (Uber loot that 99% of us can never get doesn't qualify as balance)

[Zorlack]

Originally posted by Vydas
All my characters are solitus. It's true, they have no advantages. They have no disadvantages, either. That's why I made the choice I did.

That was my reasoning when I made my Solitus soldier.

I'm glad for all the Atrox soldiers this will benefit. Well, the Omni ones anyway.

- Z

[Brummenbauch]

Ok, I'll state this one more time ....

I have said nothing about the HP augmentation for the Atrox breed.
If you can't understand that, methinks there must be a reading disability involved...

The only thing you have said that I found slightly offensive is refering to me as the KKK. That comment was just in poor taste.

You have not shown that my points are invalid because you have not addressed them.

If you bothered to read my first post instead of comming up with some knee-jerk reaction you would see that I have a problem with the NM (specifically docs) getting more of an advantage than they already have.

Not only do NM docs get their breed benefits (which includes nano skills) along with special items available to all NM, but FC saw fit to add a NM doc only armor that also augments the nano pool.

So where does it end?
When is FC going to quit stealth-gimping the Solitus doc?

I too have had an enjoyable waste of time with this thread ...
It is a good way to pass the time waiting on something worthwhile to do.

[Letah]

Originally posted by Wambly
Not only do NM docs get their breed benefits (which includes nano skills) along with special items available to all NM, but FC saw fit to

roflol !

I can gurantuee you, not a single lvl 190+ nanomage doctor will be using armour that gives 1000 AC for the set cept 3 acs that give slightly more just to get 1100 more nanopoints.

lmao.

I'm sorry, you really do not seem to know the doctor profession or our items, skills and how we play, I suggest you roll a doctor to 150 or get yourself informed before trying to point fingers and shout unfair.

I got between 6 and 7k nanopool, 700 more won't save my life since I wont run out of nano ever anyways, other then the rare duel occasion where im selfbuffed and fighting a doc (when does that happen, lol)

At lower levels the nano differnce is 3.5 nanopoints per level more then a solitus so a lvl 100 doc got 350 + the old 68 more nanopoints then a solitus doc of the same level. Trust me, even at lvl 100 418 nanopoints doesnt matter a whole lot.

Nanoskills? A lvl 167 nanomage is breedcapped, so at 167 and higher nano<>sol differ 512-480= 32 intelligence.

167-(32/3)= at level 158sh all the way *down* to level 1 nanomage and solitus differ *no* nanoskill amount other then the +3 more at lvl 1.

Lets put it all in a table if you're confused:
(using 14.5 values) ->

Level - Int difference    -    Nanoskill difference    -    Nanopoints difference
  1           3                          1                              -
 10           3                          1                              -
 50           3                          1                              -
 75           3                          1                              -
100           3                          1                              -
150           3                          1                              <50
157           3                          1                              -
158           5                          2                              -
159           8                          3                              -
160          11                          3                              -
161          14                          4                              -
162          17                          4                              -
163          20                          5                              -
164          23                          5                              -
165          26                          6                              -
166          29                          7                              -
167          32                          8                              -
170          32                          8                              <60
190          32                          9                              <70
200          32                          9                              <80

(using 14.6 values) ->

Level - Int difference    -    Nanoskill difference    -    Nanopoints difference
  1           3                          1                                3
 10           3                          1                               30
 50           3                          1                              150
 75           3                          1                              225
100           3                          1                              300
150           3                          1                              450
157           3                          1                              471
158           5                          2                              474
159           8                          3                              477
160          11                          3                              480
161          14                          4                              483
162          17                          4                              486
163          20                          5                              489
164          23                          5                              492
165          26                          6                              495
166          29                          7                              498
167          32                          8                              501
170          32                          8                              510
190          32                          9                              570
200          32                          9                              600

So in nanoskills a nanomage is better once he hit 158 compared to solitus. The nano also got 474 more nanopool, so instead of 4500 (s)he maybe has 5000. Did you know that's one 580-1100 heal for a doc? Did you also knew that at that level thats the same amount a solitus doc gets extra hp?

Now check the nanoskills. We get a stunning 9 more nanoskills when we're using nanos that ask 875 BM. Do you know what % extra 9 is at that high value? I can asure you its nothing to write home about.

To make it even more solitus-pro if you'd like; a casual non special-item lvl 200 nanomage doc has less hp and nano then a solitus with gailee hood and the same nanoskills.

Did you also know most people see 150+ as the high lvl game? Did you know before lvl 150 nanomages have 50 more nanopoints and a *lot* less hp and the *same* nanoskills as as solitus? You call that balance? You call a small raise in the nanopool unbalancing? Sorry but figures dont lie.


I wrote enough now, please study someones profession before you're just blindly dissing a fix.

[Sallust]

Thank you for the number crunching Letah. Anyone want to argue with the math?

Also I don't consider Shades or other Nano only "wheelchairs" to be any valid argument. What percentage of the player base is EVER able to lay there hands on any of these handicap aids?

But I'll wait for word from Cz or someone (and I dearly hope you reply to us) on whether or not this is supposed to be the final equalizer for Nanomage.

It's fine if they're doing this just to keep their year old promise to the player base, but hopefully they realize they need to go further than that for the sake of balance.

[Oljalyn]

I think it was about time atrox got more hp and nano more ehm.. nano.

However, why doesn't nanobreed cap intelligence at 544, like agility does for Opifex? Same with atrox, their stamina should cap at 544 IMO. That would further specialize the breeds and give them another small advantage. What do you guys think ? Too good to be true ?

[Bionitrous]

That last suggestion would help to differentiate the breeds a bit more. 544 might be a bit much. But, it would help seperate the end game a bit in terms of how hard each breed would have to work to equip themselves. As it stands now, unless they put some silly breed-x-only requirement on most gear, it's fully equippable by all breeds.

Perhaps the 200+ gear is a tad different. It would be nice however to have one breed able to wear qlvl220 and some other be limited to 210 solely base on their inherent strong or weak abilities.

[engelstein]

Originally posted by Sallust
Thank you for the number crunching Letah. Anyone want to argue with the math?

Well, no. It's math. I can argue with the conclusions, though.

Originally posted by Letah
So in nanoskills a nanomage is better once he hit 158 compared to solitus. The nano also got 474 more nanopool, so instead of 4500 (s)he maybe has 5000. Did you know that's one 580-1100 heal for a doc? Did you also knew that at that level thats the same amount a solitus doc gets extra hp?

That's odd, cause at my level 474 nanopool is good to cast GBoH 2.66 times(15% recompiler, -4% Albrecht). That's at least 2.4k in average healing. You might wanna recheck your calculations, because if docs had to pay 474 nano for a 580-1100 heal I think there'd be a lot of *****ing real quick.

Originally posted by Letah
Now check the nanoskills. We get a stunning 9 more nanoskills when we're using nanos that ask 875 BM. Do you know what % extra 9 is at that high value? I can asure you its nothing to write home about.

To make it even more solitus-pro if you'd like; a casual non special-item lvl 200 nanomage doc has less hp and nano then a solitus with gailee hood and the same nanoskills.

Did you also know most people see 150+ as the high lvl game? Did you know before lvl 150 nanomages have 50 more nanopoints and a *lot* less hp and the *same* nanoskills as as solitus? You call that balance? You call a small raise in the nanopool unbalancing? Sorry but figures dont lie.

I wrote enough now, please study someones profession before you're just blindly dissing a fix.

Discussing the % difference 9 points in nanoskills brings is misleading. What matters is the skill caps and what tradeoffs you have to make to cast nanos. And nanomages don't have to make any tradeoffs, really. You need a vest, but any discussion of high-level Doc playing has to include the vest, just like PvP discussion always assumes the doc has Jobe, PNH, and a GPH.

And what's the deal with comparing a nanomage w/out GPH to a solitus with one? You're saying, "this guy with an uber item is better than this guy without an uber item," and trying to pass it off as an argument, rather than the truism it is.

An easier argument: no one's running out of nanopool anyway, so who gives a (oh no, what can I say without seeming to be circumventing the swear filter?) chicken? Maybe NTs.

P.S. If you really don't want those 9 nanoskills, I'll take them. I'm sure I can put them to use someplace.

[Mercatura]

-Nobody is getting nerfed

-Many chars are getting a boost

-The boost may not be "super useful" for you but it can't hurt

Thats almost a new thing for FC. They must've sacrificed 30 goats to pull that off.

Now, if you want an option to change breeds or something, start asking for that. I'd agree since the descriptions are crap and flat out BS in some cases. As it is, even after this theres 0 reasons to be a nanomage mp even if you have a +20 vest and shades.

BTW, I bet a fully decked out nano enf will beat a fully decked out atrox enf more often than not with these changes. (fully decked out means I get to hand pick the gear) Not that 1v1 pvp was ever supposed to determine game mechanics contrary to many whines.

[Kanatach]

A good change. Yay! I like my xtra hp! :P

[_______Shadowstalker]

Originally posted by Cz
Nanomage will get 1 more point in max nano pool per rank in the Nano Pool skill.
[/B]

My 150+ nanomage mp has no problems with the size of his nano pool. Problem is that he spends nano way faster than he can replace it. :/

How about an innate nano-cost reduction for the nanomage breed instead?

/Puus

[AkodoReign]

Originally posted by Vickie "Puus" Joor


My 150+ nanomage mp has no problems with the size of his nano pool. Problem is that he spends nano way faster than he can replace it. :/

How about an innate nano-cost reduction for the nanomage breed instead?

/Puus

prolly cause Code is set up like this

Atrox varable 1,2 = Hp 3, Np 2
Nanomage varable 1,2 = Hp2, Np 3

so you change 2 numbers and whallla quick fix

Oh and im aggreeing with you on What should be done to nanomage aka. reduced cost.., but they want this out by the end of the month so don't expect it to happen

[_____________Rebbeca]

Originally posted by Oljalyn
I think it was about time atrox got more hp and nano more ehm.. nano.

However, why doesn't nanobreed cap intelligence at 544, like agility does for Opifex? Same with atrox, their stamina should cap at 544 IMO. That would further specialize the breeds and give them another small advantage. What do you guys think ? Too good to be true ?

The better question is that why does atrox str/stam/agi have the same values as a nanomage int/sen/psy yet atrox have 400 int/psy/sen and the nanomage have 464 str/464 agi/448 stam.

If anything its time to balance the atrox attributes to bring them up to the level of the other breeds.

[Dauhuai]

I guess I don't see what the problem is. This seems like a good and logical change. If the breeds need further adjusting then that will be shown quickly but it does not affect the value of this change.

The only ones I see really worried about this are those who are looking to be "Uber" and are therefore concerned that anyone else gets any new advantage that may affect their status.

Personally I play to have fun. If I didn't I would not have chosen an Atrox Doctor as my main or an Atrox MA as my primary alt. I think, however, that it would do us some good if we could step back from our characters and try to view the changes as it affects gameplay overall. In that respect this change just makes sense.

I believe there will still be some balancing issues to work out. I honestly believe that both Atrox and Nano's are nerfed compared to the other breeds. However I have never been refused a spot on a team because I was an Atrox Doc. My Doc has sacrificed some secondary skills to try to be effective and I work to play a conscientious and effective healer and team player. Most teams would prefer that over some Uber doc who is obnoxious or conservative of nano.

It has been my experience that people who accept a bit of nerfing for the sake of Role Playing seem to be better team mates. Those who are always power leveling and only want to stick with Uber teams, never seem to help others out, and are braggarts tend to be less enjoyable. Please understand that you can be Uber and fun or nerfed and obnoxious as well. I am just stating what has been my experience. Just like I must admit that I have only run into a couple of bad doctors in all my time on Rubi-Ka. Those who play a doctor are normally eager to be supporters and helpers and this has been my experience whether they are Uber or not.

My conclusion: Good patch FC. Logical and easy. Not the end but that is why there are patches so we can take steps to correct problems and improve the game. Then we, the community, can start discussing what other changes may be useful.

[__________THEDEACON!]

Yikes.
I guess it makes a bit of sense that nanomages get more np and atroxes get more hp, but something should have been done to shorten the gap slightly between nanos and solitus. HP is the most important thing in this game, bar none. It's what keeps us alive.

More nanopool just isn't too useful for me for a couple of reasons. I can't recharge my nano during a fight for one and unless I get lucky and happen to come across some uber rechargers, im stuck with ql125 recharges. So when you factor in a fast moving team, I have nano equivalent to a single ql125 recharger. That isn't too good.

Nanobreeds should have bonuses in the form of skill increases to all nanoskills, perhaps the ability to raise nanoskills an extra point for every level. While nothing compares to having more hp, it would be a powerful enough bonus to make the breed worth playing. Increased nano delta would be nice too, except to make it worthwhile, the increase would have to be big enough to compare with say, a really good humidity extractor, and that would make NTs class defining nano almost worthless.

More nanopool just doesn't seem useful to me unfortunately. I'll be the first to admit that picking nanomage for my mp was a dumb choice. I should have researched it a bit more, but that was nearly a year ago and I went by the advice given to us by funcom and the official strategy guide.

Nanomage is still a good breed for doctors I think, but not much else. NTs have no way of healing themselves, so they need the extra hp, a nanomage MP is redundant, as with odin's and mochams, even an atrox could cast everything in the game before lvl 130, nanomage MAs are interesting as they are able to cast ffok and uvc before anyone else, but make inferior tanks due to less hp.

If tradeskills were a viable alternative to fighting, then nanomages would truly come into their own. Nobody can get higher nano prog skill than a nanomage MP. Since pvp is now out of the question for my MP, I'd love to see a big boost for tradeskill xp. But I don't think this will happen.

The only solution is to suck it up, roll an alt or leave. I rolled an opifex MA recently and have him at 139. While I'd love to finish off the MP's development, I just don't see that being worthwhile if pvp is my ultimate goal.

But if the crit scope nerf goes through as planned, I'm not sure how good he's going to be either. Yikes, I'm not being given too many options here.

[Routeen]

This is an exceptionally clumsy fix. Health and pool are simply not the same thing (except perhaps for docs). It is the most obvious, but it is very unbalancing.

Also, for a lot of things, Atrox have gone from the bottom to the top, since that is a huge gain in health.

Couple this with the intention to put in giant skill buffs in Shadowlands, and lvl reqs, and atroxes dominate, since the low int cap is minimized entirely.

What a poor move!

[__________AsclepIIus]

Can i call you 'saint' Cz?

[__________AsclepIIus]

Atrox should be a tank. NO Evades, ALOT more HP not some few per lv. Now I LOVE this idea its the best one since.... Ive started. Its always nice to have a few more HP but how about ALOT more HP and half the evades. Then theyre the real tanks. You dont see any Tanks in RL dodging bullets do ya?