Want to fix tl7 pvp?

[agentwolve]

Pretty sure you there would have been alot of complaining if agents got a rifle with AS FA SA and dim on it, i also dont think that would be unreasonable because i dont see any rules stating otherwise.

[sultryvoltron]

I don't need to do better. I'm just asking you if you think it's reasonable. Obviously you avoided the question because you know it's the situation you want for everyone else, but wouldn't advocate to put yourself into. I don't see any rules saying FC can`t add AS to weapons, just because you are offended by it.

I'll take SA added to Angst then please. No rules against it right?

[-Klod-]

I'll take that triple AS on Tigress. Thanks.

[Obtena]

I'll take SA added to Angst then please. No rules against it right?

Sure, if you can get FC to do that then you could. Why don't you make a request for it if you think it's reasonable. Fact is that it's unlikely given that it's a ranged weapon, though there is an AS baseball bat if you want to give that a try (it might be social only) Unfortunately for you, FC DOES think that AS pistols are reasonable and likely, given that they exist.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I dunno where every1 gets this from, but i had to give up tons of def and nanoskills to make AS pistol do even reliable AS dmg, not that i play my crat alot or that hes even close to an endgame setup since xan released. With scope, full css, 300 AS imps and a 270 ish eoe and a few other nifty things It dont cap that often in the hands of a crat, but ofc we got pets, debuffs and high ar to cover up for AS, tbh i did fine without the pistol and prolly will do after its gone.

In the hands of an advy however, is a different discussion.

PS. Dont think a doc has ever capped or even done a decent AS to my shade or crat with AS pistol.

capping AS isn't the issue. A capping AS every hit would be just ridiculously OP'd, which I'm sure we can all agree on.

hitting a single multiplier crit AS every single time you press the button = reliable damage

hitting a single multiplier crit against low HP profs every single time you press the button which may or may not cap, but still do very very good damage on a % scale = OP'd.

Just because you're not hitting caps on enforcers or solds or docs, doesn't mean it's not reliable. AS Pistol isn't the weap of choice vs enforcers, and it was never meant to be. It's the disgusting amount of damage it can pum pout against evade profs like MA, shade, advy, Fixer, crat, NT and trader that makes it OP'd. It's also POSSIBLE to cap hits on high HP profs, because I've seen it. I've seen 10k+ hits on enforcers so, regardless of capping or not, thats a butt load of dmg.

[sultryvoltron]

FC DOES think that AS pistols are reasonable and likely, given that they exist.

BR and GTH existed in their old forms for quite a long time. AS used to be uncapped, one shotting people in PvP. There used to be QL 200 Ritual Krys Knives with no TL req. Caterwaul used to have no prof locks. MA crit buffs used to be castable on others. NTs used to be able to one shot people with NBS+Triple. 1hb, 1he, and particularly 2hb perks used to suck compared to 2he.

You're right though, if it exists, it's perfectly fine .

[Burgly]

capping AS isn't the issue. A capping AS every hit would be just ridiculously OP'd, which I'm sure we can all agree on.

hitting a single multiplier crit AS every single time you press the button = reliable damage

hitting a single multiplier crit against low HP profs every single time you press the button which may or may not cap, but still do very very good damage on a % scale = OP'd.

Just because you're not hitting caps on enforcers or solds or docs, doesn't mean it's not reliable. AS Pistol isn't the weap of choice vs enforcers, and it was never meant to be. It's the disgusting amount of damage it can pum pout against evade profs like MA, shade, advy, Fixer, crat, NT and trader that makes it OP'd. It's also POSSIBLE to cap hits on high HP profs, because I've seen it. I've seen 10k+ hits on enforcers so, regardless of capping or not, thats a butt load of dmg.

Most crats i meet in BS and on my crat regularly do 900-1,2k AS dmg with that pistol, docs do about the same, its not rly a big deal unless it caps on me imo.

Now advys on the other hand, caps more regularly.

Its just easier to notice when some1 does high AS dmg or a cap on u then when they do a low AS, therefor ppl are complaning, but i do agree i think those pistols should be removed. But i do not think they are any kind of overpowerd in the hands of crats or docs. just because the share amount of def/nanoskills you got to sacrifise for it.

[Weltall]

They not really overpowered in the hands of docs but for crats which can get 3.1k+ AR, pets, 80% check perks, nukes, quick recharge fear, init debuffs, the best cc, fears, I would say it is.

[Obtena]

You're right though, if it exists, it's perfectly fine .

I'm not debating that the AS pistol is 'perfectly fine'. In fact, I never said that. I'm just saying that removing it doesn't fix the 'problems' you keep repeating over and over again. Like I said ... reading comprehension problem?

[Burgly]

They not really overpowered in the hands of docs but for crats which can get 3.1k+ AR, pets, 80% check perks, nukes, quick recharge fear, init debuffs, the best cc, fears, I would say it is.

Then its the AS pistol thats the problem right? And removing that would solve everything when fighting a crat.

[sultryvoltron]

I'm not debating that the AS pistol is 'perfectly fine'. In fact, I never said that. I'm just saying that removing it doesn't fix the 'problems' you keep repeating over and over again. Like I said ... reading comprehension problem?

If you don't remove the crutch, you will limp on that leg forever.

Then its the AS pistol thats the problem right? And removing that would solve everything when fighting a crat.

Actually, I'm going to say yes to this, and here's why. Those other things are Crat specific parts of their toolset (other than pistol perks and AS). A crat is supposed to throw certain wrenches into your game. I tend to believe that toolsets should stand on their own, and the Crat toolset ALMOST does that. With a few minor tweaks from rebalance, the AS pistol will be completely un-needed, and the Crat toolset should be used in favor over it.

Before you say it Obtena, yes I know they have announced AS will be changing into an all but unusable monstrosity of a special. They honestly haven't thought that one through very well, and I expect that things will change before it hits live. You can be damn sure every Agent will be on test that week, and the usability of it (particularly in PvM and Duels) is a major concern of alot of ours.

[Obtena]

If you don't remove the crutch, you will limp on that leg forever.

Not if you fix that leg. You will discard that crutch naturally.

Before you say it Obtena, yes I know they have announced AS will be changing into an all but unusable monstrosity of a special. They honestly haven't thought that one through very well, and I expect that things will change before it hits live. You can be damn sure every Agent will be on test that week, and the usability of it (particularly in PvM and Duels) is a major concern of alot of ours.

Well, then that's just your opinion. Guess we have to wait and see to necro this thread if you are right. Until then, it's all just your conjecture. You really aren't getting FC's holistic approach to the rebalance and neither is anyone else in support of threads with these kind of suggestions. It's too bad because your simply not going to see how re-balance will work when it's over. They aren't nerfing stuff peicemeal. It's about that simple. How you can't see that, I don't understand.

[sultryvoltron]

Not if you fix that leg. You will discard that crutch naturally.

You are very optomistic if you think people will get rid of a consistent 11s AS weapon, along with major boosts to various areas of their toolsets.

Throughout the history of this game it has almost always been, what's the best AS weapon I can get onto this toon. For reference: see Caterwaul, Craphander, Ofab Silverback MK 6, Ofab Tiger MK 6, AS Pistol.

[Obtena]

I didn't say any change was going to getting rid of the weapon. I never had and if you are actually paying attention to what I'm saying, would realize I don't support it's removal. Am I dealing with schizophrenia here?

[Ocene]

You are very optomistic if you think people will get rid of a consistent 11s AS weapon, along with major boosts to various areas of their toolsets.

Throughout the history of this game it has almost always been, what's the best AS weapon I can get onto this toon. For reference: see Caterwaul, Craphander, Ofab Silverback MK 6, Ofab Tiger MK 6, AS Pistol.

Ofc, what was your other option? Full Auto?

[sultryvoltron]

I didn't say any change was going to getting rid of the weapon. I never had and if you are actually paying attention to what I'm saying, would realize I don't support it's removal. Am I dealing with schizophrenia here?

If FC actually rebalances this game to make competitive toolsets out of every profession, then an Aimed Shot pistol should be completely unnecessary. If the changes made do not force people to take the AS weapon off in favor of more synergetic choices, then rebalance has failed because people still favor a single special over a unique, working toolset.

Furthermore, ff an AS weapon on 10 out of 14 professions is still necessary, or even considered after rebalance, then rebalance has failed even more so.

[Obtena]

If FC actually rebalances this game to make competitive toolsets out of every profession, then an Aimed Shot pistol should be completely unnecessary.

Which means people will be naturally less inclined to use it without the need for FC to remove it from the game for those that still wish to have the option. Thanks. My point exactly. I think you will find that conceptually, people that don't have good AS support don't like using AS for PVP. They realize it's not supported for their professions. If re-balance gives them those tools, I'm sure they will rethink their choice to use AS without FC having to take it from them (FC would never do that anyways so...).

If re-balance doesn't work? Maybe, it won't. You still can't say removing AS pistol is going to be some magical fix if that happens. And the same is true for the other 4 magic fixes from the OP.

[MassDebater]

Ofc, what was your other option? Full Auto?

No unfortunately as I lack the massive AR and FA of soldiers, along with viable weapons with no prof locks.

[sultryvoltron]

Which means people will be naturally less inclined to use it without the need for FC to remove it from the game for those that still wish to have the option. Thanks. My point exactly. I think you will find that conceptually, people that don't have good AS support don't like using AS for PVP. They realize it's not supported for their professions. If re-balance gives them those tools, I'm sure they will rethink their choice to use AS without FC having to take it from them (FC would never do that anyways so...).

If re-balance doesn't work? Maybe, it won't. You still can't say removing AS pistol is going to be some magical fix if that happens. And the same is true for the other 4 magic fixes from the OP.

A simple hypothetical scenario will fit quite nicely. Actually, let's not even use a hypothetical. Let's take a look at the crat nano docs that we got. Crats are getting a significant increase to nano damage via perks. Crat nukes are getting significant boosts, to the point of actually being able to kill someone in PvP. Assuming item changes remove FM stims and make roots worthwhile for their short duration, Crats will have time to fire off a 3s AS in many cases.

Post-balance: Crats will indeed use their own new nuking toolset AND the AS pistol. It's nonsensical to do anything other than that, as there are no requirements on any of the nanos that would force the Crat to make a decision to keep the AS pistol or not. Also, there is literally no reason to remove it at all. It is a situation of having the cake, and eating it too.

Granted, you could simply nerf AS into oblivion, but that is a fairly unjustifiable nerf to actual AS users, not AS bandaid-fix PvPers.

[Ocene]

I was wondering if the Remod wouldn't be a better choice for nuking crats.