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Thread: Want to fix tl7 pvp?

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by SultryVoltron View Post
    Because Tiger wielding Crats and Docs were so much more potent than Pistol wielding ones...
    I don't see anyone saying that. It wasn't even implied in what I posted, though it does point to your reasoning behind it ... you think crats and docs are too strong with AS pistol? Debatable, but not really relevant. The pistol didn't turn them in to top tier PVP classes overnight, though you would think it from the level of sensationalism you are displaying here.

    I'm just taking the approach that the problem isn't an item, it's a game mechanic. Funny, because it appears that FC thinks along the similar lines, given their plan to change AS and fix pistol perks, which you guys seem to conveniently ignore. I recommend you check out some of the balance posts to familiarize yourself with whats going on around you. Personally, I think you have hidden motives, like you don't want AS nerfed for your profs that don't use pistols. I don't blame you. Every wants to see someone else nerfed before they are. It's easy to have your judgment clouded by what you legitimately think is THE solution. Unfortunately, your not being objective .. there is more than one way (more permanent and smart ways on top of it) to deal with all the issues you listed earlier and removing AS pistol simply doesn't address them.

    Honestly, if you really think that FC is just going to up and remove AS pistol and it's fixing something, the only thing I can say about that is WOW. I could expect that sort of ignorance from alot of new or jaded players that don't know or care about reality, but I'm assuming you have played long enough to know that's not likely to happen. In a sad way it's amusing to see the angry players calling for minimal, random nerfs that will fix the whole world and more. If that's your thinking, I can only say it's just not that simple or it would have already been done.
    Last edited by Obtena; Oct 20th, 2010 at 03:39:46.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    I don't see anyone saying that. It wasn't even implied in what I posted, though it does point to your reasoning behind it ... you think crats and docs are too strong with AS pistol? Debatable, but not really relevant. The pistol didn't turn them in to top tier PVP classes overnight, though you would think it from the level of sensationalism you are displaying here.

    I'm just taking the approach that the problem isn't an item, it's a game mechanic. Funny, because it appears that FC thinks along the similar lines, given their plan to change AS and fix pistol perks, which you guys seem to conveniently ignore. I recommend you check out some of the balance posts to familiarize yourself with whats going on around you. Personally, I think you have hidden motives, like you don't want AS nerfed for your profs that don't use pistols. I don't blame you. Every wants to see someone else nerfed before they are. It's easy to have your judgment clouded by what you legitimately think is THE solution. Unfortunately, your not being objective .. there is more than one way to deal with all the issues you listed earlier and removing AS pistol isn't it.

    Honestly, if you really think that FC is just going to up and remove AS pistol and it's fixing something, the only thing I can say about that is WOW. I could expect that sort of ignorance from alot of new or jaded players that don't know or care about reality, but I'm assuming you have played long enough to know that's not likely to happen.
    I know that you think you're the overlord of everything FC does, and you're almost as big a fanboy as Tech, but damn dude...

    AS pistol shotgunned profs way up above where they were. I don't think you actually PvP in this game, so you likely didn't know that.

    As to why remove the AS pistol? Because it trivializes an entire profession. Yes, the profession I PLAY. There's nothing unique about playing an Agent anymore. Nothing. That AS pistol freely hands out an 11s AS that hits extremely consistently to 4 more professions. It also dillutes the toolsets of professions that use that pistol. Why did Docs, Crats, and Engis use Tigers? Because an AS noobcannon was more useful to them than major parts of their toolset, including damage perks. The AS pistol gives them an AS noobcannon AND their full toolset. No choice. No downsides. A more reliable AS weapon.

    Now really, ask yourself this question. Is the problem AS? Or is the problem that AS is more valuable than entire toolsets, which the pistol removes the choice of using one or the other?

    The answer is obvious. And the solution is not in nerfing AS. If it was, rebalance would be damn simple.
    The Fine Arts:
    Mime | Surgery | Zen
    The Traitor


    Xirayne: I couldn't care less about who is clueless or what the exact definition "real" pvp is in ao, I want "fun" pvp!

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by SultryVoltron View Post
    I don't think you actually PvP in this game
    this^

    this is about pvpers who actually see what that as pistol has done, NOT the occassional pvmer who does BS once every 3 months and thinks nothing is wrong with it. (O*****)
    Last edited by Chewy1; Oct 20th, 2010 at 06:04:34.

  4. #84
    Geez, this is still going?
    Man I should start living on selling popcorn.
    Deadly Whisper - RK1
    too many alts for to little space

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by SultryVoltron View Post
    As to why remove the AS pistol? Because it trivializes an entire profession. Yes, the profession I PLAY. There's nothing unique about playing an Agent anymore. Nothing.
    Ah, finally the truth of it all. So it has nothing to do with AS pistols being OPed. It's just about how this weapon hurts your sensibilities as an agent. That's certainly no reason to remove it. Funny that the pistol bothers you, but all the other weapons with AS that these and most other professions have been using for years before AS pistol didn't.

    This is just an excuse and a poor one at that. AS does not make agents unique. It never has.
    Last edited by Obtena; Oct 20th, 2010 at 15:13:53.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    no reason to remove it.
    what ? making the majority of profs dependant on AS isnt a reason to remove it? they said it was a band aid so they should remove it when balancing is done.

    btw i can also quote selectively too.
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    considering how many ranged advies omni has, clan did quite a job.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ciex View Post
    Ive rolled NT and rarely make it longer than 3-4s vs fixers.
    Talking whats OP and whats not by people who have never really played so told OP profession is just lame.

  7. #87
    No, it isn't. Even FC doesn't seem to think so, at least for now. I don't see anything wrong with people using AS in PVP. If AS was reworked to make it harder to get high consistent damage from it, you would naturally see less people dependent on it. Guess what .. that's exactly what's happening. There simply isn't a reason to start axing items and weapons. The adjustments if effective, will work themselves out naturally.
    Last edited by Obtena; Oct 20th, 2010 at 20:50:24.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  8. #88
    From a shade viewpoint, AS pistol really didn't add much to the doctor offense.
    Dagger 220/30/70 Shade // Attempted 219/24/?? Enforcer // Canidae 180/0/0 Adventurer // World 185/26/32 Meta-Physicist// Cramp 150/20/35 Engineer
    Ya wanna fix something - give RK mobs better xp, make RK matter again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mamman View Post
    Give shades love or we will stop buffing people!!

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    No, it isn't. Even FC doesn't seem to think so, at least for now. I don't see anything wrong with people using AS in PVP. If AS was reworked to make it harder to get high consistent damage from it, you would naturally see less people dependent on it. Guess what .. that's exactly what's happening. There simply isn't a reason to start axing items and weapons. The adjustments if effective, will work themselves out naturally.
    It's not just AS and the Pistol. It's AS and the pistol and the friggin 80% perks that allow ranged advies and crats to enjoy the same level of offence while being completely defensively geared as hard working MA's who have to bust both nutz to make any kind of offensive threat, while completely gimping their static defences.

    It doesn't matter about AS. AS Isn't the problem, the problem is AS combined with Pistol perks, retardedly high effective AR, the obvious advantage of huge amounts of add dmg currently available in game with multi range fast firing weapons, fast recharging secondary specials, and being able to use 95-100% of the available toolset WHILE all the offensive benefits are all applicable.

    Compare this to Pre-AS pistol and 80% checks, and you've got a completely different situation: If a prof such as crat or doc or engi wanted to use AS effectively, they had to give up a substantial part of their toolset, or hard hitting normals and fast recharging secondary specials in exchange for consistent Fast AS's.

    Now, the balance is absurdly skewed in favor of any "support" prof able to equip the AS pistol and any other pistol sidearm. They've now got Huge perk damage, huge AR, huge normal damage, huge secondary specials and a WAY WAY WAY OP'd primary special with WAY too fast recharge. So, what?

    So what? Having your cake, eating it too, and having your neighbours wife serving it nude wasn't enough? you wanted it with lemonade in the shade and FC delivered. Well, Remove the damn pistol, put the perk checks back at 100% and stand around for 3 second casting your AS, and we'll see how all the noobathons of the month like being the bish serving lemonade to all the melee profs for a bit. Sure. I'll have a piece of cake too.

    Farm season is coming soon. tm?

  10. #90
    Again, removing As pistol doesn't fix that. Hell you even admit it in your first sentence. The problem isn't simply solved by removing AS pistols. Is there a reading comprehension problem here?
    Last edited by Obtena; Oct 21st, 2010 at 02:36:45.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  11. #91
    Remove the AS pistol, and then you won't have the Special that makes it the "easymode" setup.

    Lose the AS pistol, and you also lose:
    1. Easy mode AS
    2. 1/2 the hard hitting normals

    are you attempting to insult me?
    Last edited by McKnuckleSamwich; Oct 21st, 2010 at 02:49:52.

  12. #92
    Or you be smart and fix the real problems without denying professions PVP weapons that they have support for. The problem isn't the weapon.
    Last edited by Obtena; Oct 21st, 2010 at 03:14:20.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by agentwolve View Post
    what ? making the majority of profs dependant on AS isnt a reason to remove it? they said it was a band aid so they should remove it when balancing is done.

    btw i can also quote selectively too.
    Basically this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    Or you be smart and fix the real problems without denying professions PVP weapons that they have support for. The problem isn't the weapon.
    PvP weapons have to have AS? Since when?

    These professions have proper AS support? Oh wait.. then don't.

    Oh that's right, they only have one stupid pistol that gives them AS. And that's "support"?


    Come on, both you and I know that our current developers are more creative than slapping AS on every profession. It's a disgusting dillution to this game.
    The Fine Arts:
    Mime | Surgery | Zen
    The Traitor


    Xirayne: I couldn't care less about who is clueless or what the exact definition "real" pvp is in ao, I want "fun" pvp!

  14. #94
    lol @ this thread

    The AS pistol was a bandaid to address other issues in the game. It has improved PVP as a whole especially for the classes that use the pistol (this is a good thing).

    You do realise you can't remove the AS pistol until the issues it was brought in to bandaid for are removed, yes? You know, the ones that are still around?

    And 1hb/1he enfs are lol. The good ones will be good no matter what you do, the vast hordes of FOTM 1hb/1he enforcers are absolute push overs, who would lucky to get more than 3-4 kills a game, and die twice as much.

    As for agents.. best AS in game, instant heal (especially for others), ubt, snare perks, there's a lot of unique to be had there. They are still excellent, excellent, team players when they have someone tanky covering for them. I'd say they're still pretty balanced.
    Don't be lonely anymore.

    Look at your post, now back at mine. Now back to your post, now back at mine. Sadly, yours isn't mine, but if you stopped trolling and started posting legitimate comments it could look like mine. Look down, back up, where are you? You're scrolling through posts, reading the posts your posts could look like. Back at mine, it's a reply saying something you want to hear. Look again, my reply is now diamonds. Anything is possible when you think before you post.

  15. #95
    I think you all should go melee. Being ranged should be unique to soldiers.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by SultryVoltron View Post
    The AS pistol gives them an AS noobcannon AND their full toolset. No choice. No downsides. A more reliable AS weapon.
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    It's not just AS and the Pistol. It's AS and the pistol and the friggin 80% perks that allow ranged advies and crats to enjoy the same level of offence while being completely defensively geared
    I dunno where every1 gets this from, but i had to give up tons of def and nanoskills to make AS pistol do even reliable AS dmg, not that i play my crat alot or that hes even close to an endgame setup since xan released. With scope, full css, 300 AS imps and a 270 ish eoe and a few other nifty things It dont cap that often in the hands of a crat, but ofc we got pets, debuffs and high ar to cover up for AS, tbh i did fine without the pistol and prolly will do after its gone.

    In the hands of an advy however, is a different discussion.

    PS. Dont think a doc has ever capped or even done a decent AS to my shade or crat with AS pistol.
    RK
    Roxburry 220/30/70 Cratz0r
    Roxbury 220/25/70 Shadez0r
    Bolrn 220/27/70 Mpz0r
    Arrow83 220/27/70 Solz0r

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by SultryVoltron View Post
    PvP weapons have to have AS? Since when?
    They don't, but since there aren't any other reliable PVP pistols to use, it's the pistol they have to rely on. Their situation is so bad that they used weapons that weren't supported by their profs, but had AS. That's not a sign that things are good. They don't use AS pistol because it's OPed, it's because AS is a ridiculous special. What's wrong with AS is still wrong. Removing AS pistol doesn't fix that. FC wouldn't have introduced AS pistol if they fixed what was wrong with AS instead. At least we have balance inc. to deal with that. It should naturally determine what profs need AS in PVP.

    Funny that you question if PVP weapons need AS, but I can bet my life that your agent is using an AS rifle in PVP. I would love to see your agent have to rely on a some unsupported weapons in PVP because FC removed AS from your rifle. Man would that be a volcano of QQ on the forums. That wouldn't be OK would it? So why is it OK to not have an AS pistol? Because it makes you feel like your profession is minimalized? That's such crap.
    Last edited by Obtena; Oct 21st, 2010 at 14:13:47.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  18. #98
    Who said AS is agent specific? Sniper's Friend, Scopes, etc are not profession locked.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    Funny that you question if PVP weapons need AS, but I can bet my life that your agent is using an AS rifle in PVP.
    That's because Agents use rifles, which have had AS since day one. Pistols have not.

    Come on... you can do better than that.
    The Fine Arts:
    Mime | Surgery | Zen
    The Traitor


    Xirayne: I couldn't care less about who is clueless or what the exact definition "real" pvp is in ao, I want "fun" pvp!

  20. #100
    I don't need to do better. I'm just asking you if you think it's reasonable. Obviously you avoided the question because you know it's the situation you want for everyone else, but wouldn't advocate to put yourself into. I don't see any rules saying FC can`t add AS to weapons, just because you are offended by it.
    Last edited by Obtena; Oct 21st, 2010 at 19:38:04.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

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