Nerf the NT strong roots

[Darkirbiska1]

I'm not expecting perfect balance, but I'm expecting FC to put an end to the nemesis paper rock scissor concept and remove all combats, of which outcome, is simply a matter of 1 or 2 clicks. To me, that seems to be a very reasonable expectation.

Like AMS,FA?

[Ocene]

Like AMS,FA?

AMS, FA are a problem to you? Cause they are probably the easiest thing to counter for my several 220s in a place like BS.

And yes AMS will get a nerf so.. however we're hoping FA will get a boost.

[Obtena]

I'm not expecting perfect balance, but I'm expecting FC to put an end to the nemesis paper rock scissor concept and remove all combats, of which outcome, is simply a matter of 1 or 2 clicks. To me, that seems to be a very reasonable expectation.

Sure, but that has little to do with some professions intentionally lacking the tools to deal with other ones 1 vs. 1. I think that statement is a lot nonsensical because AO PVP already meets that expectation IMO. Regardless, you don't like rock scissors paper? OK, the alternative to that is teaming and using your team's abillities to boost the shortcomings of whatever profession you play, otherwise, you must recognize that your professions shortcomings are intended and that other professions have tools that take advantage of that. FC's approach to balance is not a 1 vs. 1 consideration, yet it's clear that people aren't at that level of understanding yet.

FC is simply not going to dumb down (and ruin) PVP so that every prof have every tool to survive every 1 vs. 1 encounter you can think of and likewise, for killing as well. Ironically, people call an infinite number of nerfs for profs that approach that kind of status. SO you don't want PVp that amounts to some i win buttons, but you likely don't want everyone running around with counters to all PVP situations. That's a contradiction and while you think it's 'reasonable', fundamentally, contradictions are not. I don't think with a profession system as complex as AO's, that you are going to reach some compromise between the two. There are always going to be professions at those extremes and of course, unreasonable people will call that 'un-balanced'. What you define as 'balance' may not necessarily have the same meaning that FC has for it.

[Marinegent]

Nerf both professions.

/thread

[Gatester]

/Thread

It's okay, mr. Moonbolt lost his creditability really loong ago with his weird, off topic posts with random scenarios , paper pvp and false numbers.

And by seeing him ingame, I just facepalm myself everytime I see him complaining here.

Cheers.

When many NT's can kill enforcers in duels, and one loses twice to Moonbolt, you wanna call that /Thread? Enforcers are not a profession full of tricks, learn the profession and you can beat the profession.

Nerf both professions.

/thread

What he said.

[Marinegent]

What he said.

But in all seriousness. NT's can absorb way too much in coming damage and bypass defense's doing way too much damage with one button like no other profession can.

And enforcers feel like they just have a "little" more than medium in all attributes.. they come off as the second in line to the totem pole of greatness we call advys..

But that's just my opinion i guess.

[Adva]

And enforcers feel like they just have a "little" more than medium in all attributes.. they come off as the second in line to the totem pole of greatness we call RANGED advys.

Fixed.

[Obtena]

^^ LAWL!! Right ... because melee advys are scrapping the bottom of the barrel? HA.

[Gunfytr]

^^ LAWL!! Right ... because melee advys are scrapping the bottom of the barrel? HA.

Everyone seems to have forgoten melee advys.

Its OK, when AS goes away, they will switch back like good lil FoTM players.

[Ocene]

Sure, but that has little to do with some professions intentionally lacking the tools to deal with other ones 1 vs. 1. I think that statement is a lot nonsensical because AO PVP already meets that expectation IMO. Regardless, you don't like rock scissors paper? OK, the alternative to that is teaming and using your team's abillities to boost the shortcomings of whatever profession you play, otherwise, you must recognize that your professions shortcomings are intended and that other professions have tools that take advantage of that. FC's approach to balance is not a 1 vs. 1 consideration, yet it's clear that people aren't at that level of understanding yet.

FC is simply not going to dumb down (and ruin) PVP so that every prof have every tool to survive every 1 vs. 1 encounter you can think of and likewise, for killing as well. Ironically, people call an infinite number of nerfs for profs that approach that kind of status. SO you don't want PVp that amounts to some i win buttons, but you likely don't want everyone running around with counters to all PVP situations. That's a contradiction and while you think it's 'reasonable', fundamentally, contradictions are not. I don't think with a profession system as complex as AO's, that you are going to reach some compromise between the two. There are always going to be professions at those extremes and of course, unreasonable people will call that 'un-balanced'. What you define as 'balance' may not necessarily have the same meaning that FC has for it.

BUT, PVP IS RUINED AS IT IS!

PVP is just frustration in this game, and at all levels, not just 1v1 PVP. Mass PVP was also screwed up with SB+OS. When every profession goes in to a place like BS and goes.. oh noes.. too many of such and such.. cya */afk out*, it's not good.

Actually, I'm hoping they do introduce new tools if needed. If the tools don't exist, then make them. Introduce new concepts.

There are tons of games out there, where, while none are perfectly balanced, the outcome of a 1v1 combat is not set in stone, like it can be in AO.

This is a Rebalancing effort, not an effort to improve all professions like LE did.

You guys have to understand that, this Enfo versus NT, is just not balanced. Like not balanced at all. And coming here asking to yet improve a very OP nano such as Rage, because there's 1 root it doesn't break, out of the gazillion out there, is ridiculous.
If an enfo spots a NT, and focuses on it, there's nothing the NT can do..it will just go splat, just like Traders will go splat, just like other professions will just go splat against it. It's not balanced.

Also..so if I understand you right.. we should all team up against enfos.. cause 1v1 most profs just go splat against it. So Enfos are perfectly balanced, it's up to us to find a team. Sorry no. That's not what I call balance. That's called mitigation.

And no Obtena, the lack of PVP tools of a prof against another are not intended, they were simply highlights of a failed design.

[Djiax]

The whole "pvp is balanced around team" is flawed in my opinion. You need to take out 1 vs 1 unbalance if you wanna focus on group balance. Small group balance is the next step after balancing 1 vs 1. Then when you go for large scale battle, numbers, morale, strategies, leadership etc comes into play a lot more and profession balance is diluted into some other problematics.

If you wanna be methodic you have to focus on 1 vs 1. Whenever 1 player of whatever prof = 1 player of any other prof, you can scale up and try to tone down the facts that prof Y + prof X = 3, while prof Y + prof Z = 2.5, and prof A + B = 4. If you didn t manage the 1 vs 1 unbalance you won't be able to identify the cause to a A + B = 4 unbalance, because it will be melted with the 1 vs 1 difference. The more people, the more combinaison possible ; the harder it is to "balance" it.

Proper "profession" balance have to be based on 1 vs 1, and scale up as much as they realistically can scale it up to a group. The more people into a fight, the more profession balance is irrelevant, imo. Seeing AO's lowish population the perfect group balancing should be set around 3 vs 3 to 4 vs 4, and extand decently to 6 vs 6 when possible, then give up past that.

[Adva]

^^ LAWL!! Right ... because melee advys are scrapping the bottom of the barrel? HA.

Because melée advies have an 11sec special, 80% checking perks, oh wait.. I forgot, enfos are teh nerfest right? LAWL

[erozc]

Everyone seems to have forgoten melee advys.

Its OK, when AS goes away, they will switch back like good lil FoTM players.

Some of us are actually born ranged, now subject to nerd rage due to new found power :x

Either way, apparently being top OP lovechild of the month, the professions I try to be most aware of in the surroundings are NTs and 1hb/1he trox enfos... So apparently they must be OP too if I have to spend extra effort into that?

[-Klod-]

Fixed.

Are you trying to say that melee advs suck? If so, not really. It's just that ranged ones are far superior to anything out there.

[Obtena]

Because melée advies have an 11sec special, 80% checking perks, oh wait.. I forgot, enfos are teh nerfest right? LAWL

Yes, oh woes me ... alms for the melee advy's.

[Obtena]

And no Obtena, the lack of PVP tools of a prof against another are not intended, they were simply highlights of a failed design.

Wow, that's dumb really because if it was not intended for profs to have holes to exploit in their defenses, no one would kill anyone.

OK well, you have your ideas, I can tell you that you will be very disappointed to find out that soldiers aren't getting 100% reflects, heals, NR and evades to cover all their gaps.

[Ocene]

Wow, that's dumb really because if it was not intended for profs to have holes to exploit in their defenses, no one would kill anyone.

OK well, you have your ideas, I can tell you that you will be very disappointed to find out that soldiers aren't getting 100% reflects, heals, NR and evades to cover all their gaps.

So you are saying, it's intended to have OP toolsets like the ones Enforcers have, and it's intended to be splatted for other profs..

In fact I missed the signs at noobie-island, as it's intended, they are probably there somewhere:

Gimps ->> This way
OP ->> This other way

GTFO.

[Obtena]

If you want to twist my words, sure, that's what I'm saying. But what you fail to recognize is that it can't be any other way, unless you just give everyone everything to make them OP too, making everyone invincible in the process. That's not much of a PVP game if you ask me. You're just angry because you know I'm right. I bet you have played other MMO's where certain builds and classes come out on top, yet you think AO is somehow different and that it can be fun engaging PVP with a carebear attitude where everyone runs around countering everything? GL with that.

[Ocene]

But what you fail to recognize is that it can't be any other way, unless you just give everyone everything to make them OP too, making everyone invincible in the process. That's not much of a PVP game if you ask me. You're just angry because you know I'm right.

You say "OP too", so you acknowledge Enforcers are OP.

Not only that, but it looks like it's your definition of "Balanced".

I don't think I need to prove my point any further.

[Adva]

Are you trying to say that melee advs suck? If so, not really. It's just that ranged ones are far superior to anything out there.

In no way am I saying they suck, but melée advies are totally different than the FOTM ranged advies, and a lot of people group them together when you really can't.