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Thread: Nerf the NT strong roots

  1. #41
    I wonder if during all those years Kinkstaah has ever played a NT high level to realize how wrong he is in his analysis...

    Empowered Burden of Atlas has a so long cast time (full def at least it's 2 sec), that if you try to root an enforcer rushing at you, before you have time to land that root, you're already stunned and almost dead...
    Atlantean :
    Caller "Edmunster" Supreme 220/20 Soldier
    Fumble "Maddiganed" Countered 220/21 NT

    Testlive infos

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Shrubberyman View Post
    No, there’s not plenty of time to root between stuns and casting interruption in an enf alpha (for now). The Worst Case scenario as you call it is one of a grand total of two scenarii: either I have the headstart needed to CB and root, or he has.
    Also you will note I said “usually NBG” and “prolly …ticking” precisely because it’s the most likely occurrence. NS2/IU PvP Nts are the oddballs these days, except in duels, but duels aren’t the occurrence considered by FC to design their rebalancing.
    yepp NS2/IU NTs arent as common as using doubles in BS.
    NBG lets a good NT survive the alpha if timed right and lets the NT land 2x CB and a root tho and then run out of range..
    emergency kits, nanoregen perks etc lets the NT start fighting pretty damn fast again tho.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shrubberyman View Post
    Nope, it’s a lot longer than that.
    First because, if we imagine that particular situation, we are most likely at max range, which puts you out of perk range, and even by staying in the 25/30m limit, we need to keep our perks under strict control, cause they are as likely as any nuke to break the root. Not to mention being in range to perk you means a single moment of freedom for you prolly is a death omen for us.
    Secondly, we can only use CB and IU to damage you , as DoTs set you free and LE nukes recharge makes it a deadly blunder to use them.
    Thirdly because even without rrfe, 23% reflect from graft, bracer and bioshield combined with layers are a good source of damage mitigitation against an IU that is in no way a AS or a FA damagewise.
    Lastly, it takes us a lot to time to make sure you’re CBed, REed and rooted, so we don’t chain IU every 3s. That alone allow enforcers to use several cocoons and to heal a huge bunch of hp through mongo, HD, and bioshield’s heals.
    err not using ur perk actions or every DD tool on the enf is no excuse.
    the root has a 25% chance to break on every hit... it isnt cumulative so the roll will be rolled for every hit done on the enf meaning that it rolls 1-100 and breaks on rolls 1-25.
    statistically this breaks the root less then every 4th hit.
    also.. it doesnt take many seconds to SI then DM an enf and refresh root if it breaks.
    also if u were alphad by the enf while u had ur NBG up to drain as much of ur nano pool....
    THE ENF DOESNT HAVE ANYTHING TO HURT U WITH UP ANYLONGER.

    secondly what is the damn point of wasting our 5 min heals or our coon when we have no chance of breaking loose from the root.
    u would have to be a retard to waste ur BR HoT while rooted by a NT if MoR isnt up wich is on a 15 min cooldown for an enf.
    so no it doesnt take 2 mins to break down an enforcer as a NT... IF U KNOW WHAT UR DOIN.


    Quote Originally Posted by Shrubberyman View Post
    What I’m saying is that we have the upper hand in duels, given some circumstances. What I am also saying is that despite this specific root of us, in other occurences than duels, good enforcers are lethal when they have the headstart, and merely highly dangerous when we do.
    yes enforcers are lethal when we get the jump on NTs..
    NT are likewise lethal to the enf when they get the jump on the enf.
    if u call enforcers highly lethal to u when u get the jump on them u need to practise.
    if u land 1 CB on the enf while he isnt prepared he should be rooted long before he can reach u and get his alpha off.



    Quote Originally Posted by Shrubberyman View Post
    As far as I know, roots from fixers and crats have 7 to 10s duration for 10s cooldown. And the reason behind the change was the spammability of the nanos, and the fact you could eternally root some docs or sols, not the fact that roots managed to land and actually fulfill their purpose.

    yepp the crat root has 10 sec duration and 10 sec CD wich is utterly fail from FC side... roots should be 10 sec duration 1 min CD imo... like they are in most other MMORPGS.. a way to stop the profession to get breathing room.
    add the crat snare and AoE root to that and u still have an issue with perma dissabling a toon or rahter a toon that can never catch up.
    add also to that the changes in the curve of runspeed wich will make it take longer time to close the 40M gap between the players.
    Moonbolt - 220/26/something. Trox Enf RK1 General of Hells Heroes.
    Renswind - 220/21/67 solitus trader.
    Moonkiss - 219/21/something opifex shade.
    Mooncloud - 150/18/somethin solitus MA.

  3. #43
    So... What exactly is stopping enfs to use root grafts again?
    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

    MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Maddiganed View Post
    I wonder if during all those years Kinkstaah has ever played a NT high level to realize how wrong he is in his analysis...

    Empowered Burden of Atlas has a so long cast time (full def at least it's 2 sec), that if you try to root an enforcer rushing at you, before you have time to land that root, you're already stunned and almost dead...
    ermmm Gunnandahalf is Kinks RL brother.... im pretty sure kink knows how a NT works.
    Moonbolt - 220/26/something. Trox Enf RK1 General of Hells Heroes.
    Renswind - 220/21/67 solitus trader.
    Moonkiss - 219/21/something opifex shade.
    Mooncloud - 150/18/somethin solitus MA.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by -Klod- View Post
    So... What exactly is stopping enfs to use root grafts again?
    root grafts takes 1 FM stim to stim out of.
    SBoA takes 5 stims with my 275 stims.
    and what stops the NT fom root grafting the enf back?
    its the exact same thing as root grafting the NT.
    also 1 FM stim removes the stuns from enf.
    Moonbolt - 220/26/something. Trox Enf RK1 General of Hells Heroes.
    Renswind - 220/21/67 solitus trader.
    Moonkiss - 219/21/something opifex shade.
    Mooncloud - 150/18/somethin solitus MA.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonbolt View Post
    root grafts takes 1 FM stim to stim out of.
    SBoA takes 5 stims with my 275 stims.
    and what stops the NT fom root grafting the enf back?
    its the exact same thing as root grafting the NT.
    also 1 FM stim removes the stuns from enf.
    Hey welcome to our world!

  7. #47
    Wow, didn't we already ahve a thread on the whole NT vs. Enfo thing? People sure have poor memories.

    Anyways, this thread is just prof that people aren't opening their eyes to what's happening around them. See you after re-balance.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    Wow, didn't we already ahve a thread on the whole NT vs. Enfo thing? People sure have poor memories.

    Anyways, this thread is just prof that people aren't opening their eyes to what's happening around them. See you after re-balance.
    Who's fault is it if Enforcer took the lead in the "open whine threads" competition???

    PS : Moonbolt, you really need to l2p. No time right now for a proper answer. Will catch you later.
    Tribute to Aratink : Racatti and Artyomis will be pale shadows of you as long as they don't have the infamous Clanslator in their sig.
    Noim, Neutral TL7 NT
    Sethis, Neutral TL7 Keeper
    Anthraxal, Omni TL5 Enfotrox

  9. #49
    or u need to L2p...
    u can throw that comment around u as much as u want.
    Moonbolt - 220/26/something. Trox Enf RK1 General of Hells Heroes.
    Renswind - 220/21/67 solitus trader.
    Moonkiss - 219/21/something opifex shade.
    Mooncloud - 150/18/somethin solitus MA.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonbolt View Post
    root grafts takes 1 FM stim to stim out of.
    Hard to do it reliably on time, when you have something as fast as enf on your ass.

    SBoA takes 5 stims with my 275 stims.
    Use rods.

    and what stops the NT fom root grafting the enf back?
    And what stops enf to rage out of it?

    its the exact same thing as root grafting the NT.
    It's not.

    also 1 FM stim removes the stuns from enf.
    Honestly, stun runs out faster then it takes you to use FM, but enfs can chain-stun anyways, right?
    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

    MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonbolt View Post
    or u need to L2p...
    u can throw that comment around u as much as u want.
    For some weird reason, I feel like I make a better show of credibility.
    An enforcer ignoring the mechanics of his own Rage (who had to explain you the Combat nano NCU 99 thing already?) should really keep a lower profile.


    But no worries, I shall make a proper answer tomorrow, so that we can draw a prude curtain over that sad show.
    Tribute to Aratink : Racatti and Artyomis will be pale shadows of you as long as they don't have the infamous Clanslator in their sig.
    Noim, Neutral TL7 NT
    Sethis, Neutral TL7 Keeper
    Anthraxal, Omni TL5 Enfotrox

  12. #52
    How many NT's have killed you without the use of this root?

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Maddiganed View Post
    I wonder if during all those years Kinkstaah has ever played a NT high level to realize how wrong he is in his analysis...

    Empowered Burden of Atlas has a so long cast time (full def at least it's 2 sec), that if you try to root an enforcer rushing at you, before you have time to land that root, you're already stunned and almost dead...
    Attack time: 1.39s (capped at 1s)

    According to my calculations you have -122 nano init


  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Shrubberyman View Post
    For some weird reason, I feel like I make a better show of credibility.
    An enforcer ignoring the mechanics of his own Rage (who had to explain you the Combat nano NCU 99 thing already?) should really keep a lower profile.


    But no worries, I shall make a proper answer tomorrow, so that we can draw a prude curtain over that sad show.
    errrr...
    lol?
    Moonbolt - 220/26/something. Trox Enf RK1 General of Hells Heroes.
    Renswind - 220/21/67 solitus trader.
    Moonkiss - 219/21/something opifex shade.
    Mooncloud - 150/18/somethin solitus MA.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonbolt View Post
    yepp NS2/IU NTs arent as common as using doubles in BS.
    NBG lets a good NT survive the alpha if timed right and lets the NT land 2x CB and a root tho and then run out of range..
    emergency kits, nanoregen perks etc lets the NT start fighting pretty damn fast again tho.

    ...

    err not using ur perk actions or every DD tool on the enf is no excuse.
    the root has a 25% chance to break on every hit... it isnt cumulative so the roll will be rolled for every hit done on the enf meaning that it rolls 1-100 and breaks on rolls 1-25.
    statistically this breaks the root less then every 4th hit.


    also.. it doesnt take many seconds to SI then DM an enf and refresh root if it breaks.
    also if u were alphad by the enf while u had ur NBG up to drain as much of ur nano pool....
    THE ENF DOESNT HAVE ANYTHING TO HURT U WITH UP ANYLONGER.

    secondly what is the damn point of wasting our 5 min heals or our coon when we have no chance of breaking loose from the root.
    u would have to be a retard to waste ur BR HoT while rooted by a NT if MoR isnt up wich is on a 15 min cooldown for an enf.
    So, read above: No point in the enf using his full tool set when there's no chance of breaking loose... And NTs have no excuse to not use their full tool set since it won't really break the enf free. Silly.

    Then, your maths are bad too. You can't say that some event which has a chance of happening will happen statistically at some point like that. Try this:

    After 4 hits on the enfo, there is a over 78% chance the enf is not rooted anymore. This includes the possibility that the root broke on the first, second, or third hit as well.

    By the way, if the NT is out of nano, enfo regulars will be quite lethal on the NT too.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Klod- View Post
    So... What exactly is stopping enfs to use root grafts again?
    Because they r CHALLANGAR and then you can't use nano-y thingies.
    Eroz, finally 220/26/70 Adventurer & proud General of Regulators on ex-RK2 (outdated) equip
    Rokroland, 170 Engineer No more crab for j00 Northern Front on ex-RK2
    Ranged roxxorz!
    Sig last updated properly when West Athens still had people sitting about the subway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Siahanor View Post
    Complaining about the realism of height changing mechanics in a game that has people who can channel their anger to make huge killer meatballs.

  16. #56
    Enforcers cannot use MOTR, the endurance booster locks the same skill and is needed in random encounters. For duels...idk, I can say I have MOTR to avoid your roots, but I have also seen NT's wait until NBS is up and drop the enforcer.

    To be very honest though, I wouldn't use 1he/1hb for duels but 2he for the shere fact that you can AS hotswap and use a 40m range melee weapon that can hit while you kite, which means the roots are only a major issue for particular setups (ie gank setups).

    I also believe NT's need that unbreakable root for when the enforcer gets the jump on the NT. Post-balancing may be different, but an NT cannot get away from an enforcer using any other means once he is actually in range.



    As far as I know though, an NT losing a duel vs an enforcer is entirely dependant on the NT not making mistakes, or am I incorrect?
    Last edited by Gatester; Sep 20th, 2010 at 23:55:16.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    As far as I know though, an NT losing a duel vs an enforcer is entirely dependant on the NT not making mistakes, or am I incorrect?
    As usual you are
    --Clan "Howlin" Messiah



    Howlin banned indefinitely by Gorafk Reason: Clan "Howlin" Messiah

  18. #58
    That unbreakable root can be free movemented away.

    It's really just free kills on noobs or people who don't notice it.
    Brofist 220/30/70 Engineer
    Techbro 220/30/70 Nano-Technician

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by howlin2009 View Post
    As usual you are
    Then what would cause a profession that has total control over an opponent to lose to that opponent if it was not a mistake in their control? Feel free to correct my assumption.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Ocene View Post
    Either your enfo is a complete gimp, or you like to purposely lie. Saying Enfos are only good at NR and suck at everything else shows how much you know about enfos or how much you want us to know.

    Either way it's ridiculous, enfos need a big fat nerf now, this 1h edge/1h blunt situation has gone a bit too far.
    I said enforcers are good at a lot of things, but spectacular at none. I said good players can negate an enf, from essentially every class will not die to a NON MR Enforcer alpha.

    This is true. If it isnt true to you, then I'm sorry, but you're doing it wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedWatr View Post
    killing an enf with an NT is a practice in perfection. there really isn't any room for the smallest mistake. and even 1 more enemy add to that mix and you're in trouble. in fact a few of my fights with certain enfs have lasted long enough for them to use motr twice lol. i guess it's all about how hard you're willing to fight to stay alive
    Exactly. There's no room for mistakes. There shouldn't be. Someone else showing up should definitely sway the outcome. This is the same for ANY encounter between ANY other two professions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Weltall View Post
    If you're stupid enough to stick around and not use los while a NT NS2's I'm afraid you deserve whatever the NT does to you.
    I agree. Personally, I'm not. I GTFO out of LOS asap. But sometimes it's not possible. Sometimes NT's are actually smart and use the situation to their advantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mountaingoat View Post
    Kink stop being ridiculous. The roots have a 1/4 chance of breaking each time the NT hits you. The NT has to use IU and pause after every nuke to make sure it didn't break. Versus 35k hp+10k coon+enf absorb+castable absorbs+mongo+bior+HD, it takes several high risk minutes to kill an enforcer. You have a 20% root/snare resist hud. If the NT used NBG to get you CB'd and rooted (ie a one on one) while in offensive mode, and then bounces even 1 root of that hud item, the NT gets insta'd. Same with MoTR. Then there are things like FMs (275's remove it in 3), rods, and Spirit Purges (complete root removal every 30s).
    Rods, Spirit Purges = Paper PVP.
    Not applicable. May as well argue by saying "The NT can just use NBS!" which would be in the same league of stupid.

    I only ever ague about the best of the best. Yeah, I've killed a LOT of bad NT's. I reckon I'm still on pretty good odds vs the best NT's out there. I don't think the best NT's out there unfortunately really do play to their maximum and play to win, 100% of the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shrubberyman View Post
    No, there’s not plenty of time to root between stuns and casting interruption in an enf alpha (for now). The Worst Case scenario as you call it is one of a grand total of two scenarii: either I have the headstart needed to CB and root, or he has.
    Why are you casting while the enforcer is on you? This is a critical flaw. Why isnt your root spam casted from 40m away? Why arent you running in the opposite direction while it recharges? If the enforcer is standing next to you to begin with, you have already failed.

    Get GSF, run in opposite direction, use CB, land root while running away from the enf. Don't get into rootgraft range. Don't get into the fear range. Doable, and expected from a proper player.

    Lastly, it takes us a lot to time to make sure you’re CBed, REed and rooted, so we don’t chain IU every 3s. That alone allow enforcers to use several cocoons and to heal a huge bunch of hp through mongo, HD, and bioshield’s heals.
    One CB. One SL root. Kiting properly, this is going to work a majority of the time. Not every time. It shouldnt be every time.

    What I’m saying is that we have the upper hand in duels, given some circumstances. What I am also saying is that despite this specific root of us, in other occurences than duels, good enforcers are lethal when they have the headstart, and merely highly dangerous when we do.
    Exactly. An Enforcer having a headstart is either an unlucky NT, or a bad one. The same applies to Agents. Agents can REALLY ruin enforcers day (trust me, I am one, both of them). Just play to what they're good at, instead of trying to tank enforcers like a moron. (referring to agents here)

    As far as I know, roots from fixers and crats have 7 to 10s duration for 10s cooldown. And the reason behind the change was the spammability of the nanos, and the fact you could eternally root some docs or sols, not the fact that roots managed to land and actually fulfill their purpose.
    Or eternally root classes like, say, Enforcers. They should work. They should be escape nanos like intended, or used situationally. I have nothing against roots, or stuns, or what have you. They just shouldn't work 100% of the time, for 100% of a fight, giving 100% chance to win.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Klod- View Post
    Hard to do it reliably on time, when you have something as fast as enf on your ass.
    Get better. It also should be 'hard' to do.

    Honestly, stun runs out faster then it takes you to use FM, but enfs can chain-stun anyways, right?
    No, and no, actually.
    Last edited by Kinkstaah; Sep 21st, 2010 at 05:19:17.
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