Who needs go up and who down survey ?

[Shrubberyman]

UP :
Keepers
MPs

Post 33

The fact that you want MPs to remain an loleasykill for your faceroll NT is alot more to blame.

I know, keeping track of the 3 posts in the conversation before this is tough.

Post 59.

Ownd.

My problem is with the fact that NTs get a ridiculous amount of NR. Alternatively, if the NR check on eNSD got lowered to make it so that it's reliably (read: even half the time, as opposed to 1/20 like it is now) landable on NTs, that would be acceptable for me. Although NTs still get too much NR, which is exactly what I said to begin with.
Site note: yes they are, but what exactly do I need to NSD enfs for? Their attacks are through weapons, not nanos like NTs. So of the profs NSD is actually useful against, NTs are the masters of NR, with docs a close 2nd.

I don't think 2,7k NR can be deemed a ridiculous amount of NR, in particular since NR doesn't work like other defences, and since as an MP you should be able to reach at least that amount of nanoskills. Less AS, more nanoskills, hmkay? Though I will make the guess NSD will most likely be easier to land but shorter and with cooldown after the rebalance.
And no, you began with mentioning 7k NR and then better evades than a lot of profs, both assertions being as I have already showed, ludicrous.
Side note : oh, so we are the masters-of-NR-among-the-professions-that-you-deem-useful-to-NSD. That's a lot different than master of NR, now, isn't it?

Non-endgame? How do you figure?

I'm a 220 in Combined Scouts and mostly alphas/betas with a few 250+ symbs mixed in

Figured. If I had your toon name, guess Auno would also yield a non LE 70, non AI30. THIS is an endgame PvP MP.

If we're just comparing PERFECT toons, then the rebalancing is a waste of time.

What are you suggesting, that balancing should be done with lvl 1s in mind?

And how do you figure a 219 NT is end-game?

Where did I say he was?

Since you're saying that NT's evade gear is basically on gear that everyone can grab, and I can perk these other people, so the only difference is...you guess it, NR! So where's your argument that NTs don't have too much NR? Cause it's either not there or very very very poor.

Ok, read slowly. Those perks are f*cked up because of the +AAD. Reread it again. By now you should be starting to realize this is the very reason why +AAD is getting rid of post balancing. Oh, and btw, short of a nerfing of HHAB, which will hopefully happen, FC plan for NTs seem to be more NR, at least that's what perk docs seem to imply.

How did you get 2/14 btw? When were we talking about people being able to perk NTs?

I mean this as in I can perk most other profs, but when it comes to an NT, my perks almost always miss. Be this because my perks are going against NR or the AAO debuff from blinds, I don't know. Naturally I'm not an AR oriented class (especially since MPs have the worst AR template ingame). However, soldiers/docs/agents/MPs/engis/traders...oh hey that's 6/14 profs! That's almost half!

You seriously need to organize better your brain farts.

I was talking about their evades, relative to the evades of other classes, which you still haven't refuted.

You have reading issues? It has already been proved that Agents can get around 3k, as can MPs without even using procs or SoZ, as for traders you should really get documented before making a fool of yourself, they have way higher evades than NTs. So that leaves us basically with (pay attention, magic trick incoming) :

which puts us in the second to last category of evaders, second only to Docs, Engis and sols.

I know, keeping track of the 3 posts in the conversation before this is tough.

Reownd.

Feel free to continue though, your bias is showing. Notice how almost everyone in this thread has said that MPs need buffing,

So rude of me to agree with that :/

while almost everyone has also said that NTs need to be nerfed.

Which we are in a way, LE nukes going away. But at least they had the prudence not to justify their statement with ridiculous claims.

I just gave reasons for the nerfing, as seen by an MP (you know, the master of shutting down nanoskills).

As far as I'm concerned, Traders fill that role a lot better than you guys.

[-Klod-]

NT's don't have much in the field of active evades. If you go that way, active evades I mean, then Keepers and MPs beat NTs hands down (procs, perk specials).

It's much easier to land blinds for you guys (plus DWL), even with all the blind resistance thingies that are in game right now (which only 10% of PvP population use), then it is for MPs to fire off evade procs.

So actually, NT's evades are in the same league than agents', which puts us in the second to last category of evaders, second only to Docs, Engis and sols. Did I mention dark blue evade skills btw?

Dark blue skills affect only IP usage, not maximum possible amount of evades.

[Shrubberyman]

It's much easier to land blinds for you guys (plus DWL), even with all the blind resistance thingies that are in game right now (which only 10% of PvP population use), then it is for MPs to fire off evade procs.

Lal, always loved that joke about the rarity of antiblind huds! ^^ DWL is a common tool of MPs and NTs, though obviously NTs can land it a lot more often than MPs, thx to CB.

Dark blue skills affect only IP usage, not maximum possible amount of evades.

Guess I should have been clearer indeed. NT's cap on evade skills are lower than all profs but docs and engis.

[-LL-]

I don't think 2,7k NR can be deemed a ridiculous amount of NR, in particular since NR doesn't work like other defences, and since as an MP you should be able to reach at least that amount of nanoskills. Less AS, more nanoskills, hmkay? Though I will make the guess NSD will most likely be easier to land but shorter and with cooldown after the rebalance.
And no, you began with mentioning 7k NR and then better evades than a lot of profs, both assertions being as I have already showed, ludicrous.
Side note : oh, so we are the masters-of-NR-among-the-professions-that-you-deem-useful-to-NSD. That's a lot different than master of NR, now, isn't it?

lol. Yes you can reach that amount of nanoskills. Is it viable to reach it in pvp? Only if you are a SoZ user and in duel VS high NR profs. Open pvp? No, you'll have 2500sh. BS? Same thing. If you want to land NeNSD reliably you need to sacrifice everything in the equipment that gives evades (except for armor, which CS is good for both)

[-Klod-]

NT's cap on evade skills are lower than all profs but docs and engis.

Irrelevant, since you compensate it with evade buff alone.

[sultryvoltron]

Here's two things I've heard lately too: I stopped playing my (ranged) advy because it's not challenging. Ditto for the 1hb/1he enfo.

If people stop playing their toon because it's not even fun anymore, when rarely can you find a challenge, thats when you know:

Sht's BROKE

Probably your best post to date, imo.

[-Klod-]

THIS is an endgame PvP MP.

Sorry, but this so called END GAME PvP MP has ridiculously low nano skills.

[Perskules]

Sorry, but this so called END GAME PvP MP has ridiculously low nano skills.

thats my normal bs setup. can swap lots more nanoskills if needed. nanocont 75, alb thing 50 and 25, chest 35.
on bs dont have much time spam ensd becasuse need keep SS all time running to stay few secs alive.
swaping lots items for duels evade stuff, dodge, hp, nr

[-Klod-]

thats my normal bs setup. can swap lots more nanoskills if needed. nanocont 75, alb thing 50 and 25, chest 35.
on bs dont have much time spam ensd becasuse need keep SS all time running to stay few secs alive.
swaping lots items for duels evade stuff, dodge, hp, nr

...which is sad.

[Gatester]

Three is not enough:

Up
1. Mps
2. Shades
3. Keepers
4. Crats
5. Agents
6. Enfs
7. MA
8. Soldier
9. NTs
10. Doctors
11. Engineers
12. Advy
13. Trader
14. Fixers

Down
1. Enfs
2. NTs
3. Engineers
4. Doctors
5. Advy
6. Trader
7. Agent
8. MA
9. Soldier
10. Fixer

Just because a profession needs a nerf in one area does not mean they do not need help in others. If the point of this thread is to determine who needs to be a better pvper and who needs to be a weaker pvper, then it is pointless. Post-balancing can make a weaker setup now an effective one in the future, and vice-versa. Honestly, I do not even see the point of this thread lol.

[Shrubberyman]

Irrelevant, since you compensate it with evade buff alone.

Ah now, our evade buff is better than agents' or MP', but it doesn't change our evade league, nor our place in this league, as we start from lower standards. Only "evade" skill we really shine in is NR, simple as maths.

[sultryvoltron]

Up
12. Advy

I hate you... lol.

[Darkirbiska1]

Up
12. Advy

I hate you... lol.

They need improved kote for more xp%.

[Ocene]

Well, this thread rocks tbh.. unfortunately too many people didn't dare joining cause QQing is politically incorrect......well **** the politically incorrect and jump into to the Sauna.

Lots of perceptions and good ideas here.

[Esssch]

I don't think 2,7k NR can be deemed a ridiculous amount of NR, in particular since NR doesn't work like other defences, and since as an MP you should be able to reach at least that amount of nanoskills. Less AS, more nanoskills, hmkay? Though I will make the guess NSD will most likely be easier to land but shorter and with cooldown after the rebalance.
And no, you began with mentioning 7k NR and then better evades than a lot of profs, both assertions being as I have already showed, ludicrous.
Side note : oh, so we are the masters-of-NR-among-the-professions-that-you-deem-useful-to-NSD. That's a lot different than master of NR, now, isn't it?

I'm not Tigress. Tigress is a ****ty setup for pvp, you'll die in about 3 seconds. So I have to get 2.7k skill in 3 different nanoskills, while you just have to get it in 1 skill and that will make us equal? How exactly is that fair? 2.7K is a lot of NR. Tell me which nanos take 2.7k skill to cast? Oh right, there aren't any LOL.

And I'm sorry you're not intelligent enough to recognize an obvious exaggeration. Seriously, you keep bringing up the 7k number when I've already said it was an exaggeration. Let me reiterate: I KNOW THEY DON'T GET 7K. Got it? Good.

Again, I said you were right about the NR master thing. Soo...stop being a tard and learn to read, kthx. You guys still have a lot of NR compared to most profs.

Figured. If I had your toon name, guess Auno would also yield a non LE 70, non AI30. THIS is an endgame PvP MP.

Auno doesn't show LE levels. lol /owned. FYI, I'm LE68/AI28. The last 2 LE levels are +25 int and NSD proc.

That endgame MP that chooses 64 evades over 50AAD, 4% resistance to stuns, 1500ACs, 240hp, and more nanoskill trickle from psychic? Oh, and he went Tigress. Oooh, he's going to be able to AS once for about 20% of the person's HP before he goes splat! Congrats!

What are you suggesting, that balancing should be done with lvl 1s in mind?

I'm suggesting that balancing should be done with everyone in mind, or it's doomed from the get-go. OH LOL THAT'S SOMETHING FC AGREES ON.

Where did I say he was?

Here:

A non-endgame, not AR orientated prof in Scout not perking an endgame non-evade oriented prof in evade gear doesn't shock me for some reason.

Ok, read slowly. Those perks are f*cked up because of the +AAD. Reread it again. By now you should be starting to realize this is the very reason why +AAD is getting rid of post balancing. Oh, and btw, short of a nerfing of HHAB, which will hopefully happen, FC plan for NTs seem to be more NR, at least that's what perk docs seem to imply.

Ok read very slowly: Those perks may be ****ed up because of the AAD, but I can land them on people who have AAD without the NR, whereas I can't land them on NTs. The only difference there is the NR that NTs get (speaking of which, who else gets more NR than an NT? Enforcers with rage, we've got that, but who else?). So they'll be fixed in 20 years when the rebalancing is done, but I'm talking about now.

Which we are in a way, LE nukes going away. But at least they had the prudence not to justify their statement with ridiculous claims. As far as I'm concerned, Traders fill that role a lot better than you guys.

I know LE nukes are going away. This thread is about current up/down opinions, not 20 years from now, hence why I mentioned LE nukes that do 60% of a person's HP, through reflects.

Traders do fill that role, but that's not how it's supposed to be, so what's your point there? Or are you just pulling stuff out of your ass now?

Ah now, our evade buff is better than agents' or MP', but it doesn't change our evade league, nor our place in this league, as we start from lower standards. Only "evade" skill we really shine in is NR, simple as maths.

Well let's see...MPs also get dark blue evades and our evade buff gives +60, while an NT's gives +160, so....yes?

[Weltall]

Yes, yes, MPs are gimp and need love this is already known, stop getting so worked up :P

[Shrubberyman]

I'm not Tigress. Tigress is a ****ty setup for pvp, you'll die in about 3 seconds. So I have to get 2.7k skill in 3 different nanoskills, while you just have to get it in 1 skill and that will make us equal? How exactly is that fair? 2.7K is a lot of NR. Tell me which nanos take 2.7k skill to cast? Oh right, there aren't any LOL.

Gonna repeat it , just in hope it sinks in : your problem is not with NR, it is with parts of your toolset. If split AR is that much of a pain, that's where you should start to suggest stuff, not start raging about some supposed overpoweredness of NTs NR. PS : what weapon requires 3k skill to equip? But still peps keep IPing the skill to the max, right?

And I'm sorry you're not intelligent enough to recognize an obvious exaggeration. Seriously, you keep bringing up the 7k number when I've already said it was an exaggeration. Let me reiterate: I KNOW THEY DON'T GET 7K. Got it? Good.

I got it honey, first time, but what you seem to forget is the rest of your delusions about NTs were just as ridiculous.

Auno doesn't show LE levels. lol /owned. FYI, I'm LE68/AI28. The last 2 LE levels are +25 int and NSD proc.

That endgame MP that chooses 64 evades over 50AAD, 4% resistance to stuns, 1500ACs, 240hp, and more nanoskill trickle from psychic? Oh, and he went Tigress. Oooh, he's going to be able to AS once for about 20% of the person's HP before he goes splat! Congrats!

Ah, well, if you ain't ready to go for the best alternative, don't cry that your not killing stuff.

I'm suggesting that balancing should be done with everyone in mind, or it's doomed from the get-go. OH LOL THAT'S SOMETHING FC AGREES ON.

Lol, yes, it will be done with everyone in mind at equal level of advancement, gear, etc. SO basically, taking "perfect" toons from every prof is most prolly gonna be the deciding factor. Balance the high end of the spectrum, then go downward.

Ok read very slowly: Those perks may be ****ed up because of the AAD, but I can land them on people who have AAD without the NR, whereas I can't land them on NTs. The only difference there is the NR that NTs get

The likely story, what's next, Snowhite?

So they'll be fixed in 20 years when the rebalancing is done, but I'm talking about now.

Ah, so basically, you're howling at the moon. Good.

I know LE nukes are going away. This thread is about current up/down opinions, not 20 years from now, hence why I mentioned LE nukes that do 60% of a person's HP, through reflects.

Fascinating news *yawn* your insight really fits the balance discussion forum...

Traders do fill that role, but that's not how it's supposed to be, so what's your point there? Or are you just pulling stuff out of your ass now?

I'm not the one pulling epic titles out of my money maker, like "masters of NR" or "masters of shutting down nanoskills". Was just pointing out traders do that job faster and better than MPs atm.

Well let's see...MPs also get dark blue evades and our evade buff gives +60, while an NT's gives +160, so....yes?

Ok, you really need to get back to basics. MP's caps aren't like NTs'. NT's starts with an evade cap 160 points lower than MP's in evade cl. NT has a better evade buff. Real PvP MPs (no pun intended) have higher evade+AAD. We might have called it a draw if MPs did not also have SoZ and procs. MPs are higher on the evade scale.

[-Klod-]

MPs are higher on the evade scale.

True.

If they swap to level 3 research thingie or go with SoZ.

[Shrubberyman]

No, MPs are higher on the evade scale in "optimum" PvP setup. If they were going defencive and decided to gimp AS and swap to def hud 3, they would be a even higher.

[Esssch]

Ok, you can have the last word. Enjoy your FOTM class.