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Thread: ALL Melee Users Need To Catch Up To Their Target

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Ranged damage pale in comparison to melee damage. Let's just look at the comparison:

    Melee damage over 10 seconds > ranged damage over 10 seconds...obviously melee is better than ranged.

    Melee damage over 11 seconds < ranged damage over 11 seconds...wait, did someone's capping specials just refresh?

    Melee damage over 22 seconds <<<< ranged damage over 22 seconds...ok where are my perks? Did those ranged guys just refresh their capping specials again? That burst special is almost refreshed a 3rd time too!

    Melee damage over 33 seconds <<< ranged damage over 33 seconds...well at least my shades perks are up again, hopefully they land this time with my non-atrox shade.

    Melee damage over 44 seconds <<<<<<< ranged damage over 44 seconds...OH SNAP, sneak attack bish, but if I use it now I can't use it in my alpha Ok i'll save it for another 16 seconds and then I'm kicking your ass.

    Need I go on? Aimed shot, Full auto, Burst are greater than melee damage over time, and kiting only widens that gap.



    Sorry, you have to stop for a split second before taking 90% of a players health from 35m away
    This is the biggest QFT of the year. Gzz gatester, but, ranged profs need to wake the F*ck up and stop being such sissies. you've been OP'd to hell on available specials and not needing to hotswap to do damage to your opponents.

    Any ranged prof QQ'ing needs to roll a keeper/MA and try to fight for a year before saying they have an even remote understanding of the frustrations involved.

    Until then, NERF RANGED, BOOST MELEE. End of story, see you in BS.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester
    Biased stuff
    Sorry Gatester, it might have hold some water if you at least had had the intellectual honesty of mentioning ANTI CC TOOLS in the same way you mentioned CC tools.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noobas

    This is the biggest QFT of the year. Gzz gatester, but, ranged profs need to wake the F*ck up and stop being such sissies. you've been OP'd to hell on available specials and not needing to hotswap to do damage to your opponents.

    Any ranged prof QQ'ing needs to roll a keeper/MA and try to fight for a year before saying they have an even remote understanding of the frustrations involved.

    Until then, NERF RANGED, BOOST MELEE. End of story, see you in BS.
    Sissies...QQing... you sure you want to go that way? How long can it take to blietz search your thread production and select those actually sticking to your criteria of "Sissy QQing"?

    Also you should drop the "ranged don't know about melees", we all have 8 slots per account, the odds are high long time player actually do know about melees.
    Tribute to Aratink : Racatti and Artyomis will be pale shadows of you as long as they don't have the infamous Clanslator in their sig.
    Noim, Neutral TL7 NT
    Sethis, Neutral TL7 Keeper
    Anthraxal, Omni TL5 Enfotrox

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Shrubberyman View Post
    Sissies...QQing... you sure you want to go that way? How long can it take to blietz search your thread production and select those actually sticking to your criteria of "Sissy QQing"?

    Also you should drop the "ranged don't know about melees", we all have 8 slots per account, the odds are high long time player actually do know about melees.
    Until you play toon who gets WTFfacerolled on 9/10 encounters, then finally find an endgame keeper who can't kill you with MR, who whines that he was hoping he'd be able to kill you, you don't actually know how broken melee is.

    Until you play it, max it, get as good as you can be, and still get jammed by snares/roots/ kiting until you turn the game off in disgust, you DON'T know melee.

    Until you find me one even encounter where a ranged toon can't utilize game synch to kill ANY melee prof, you have no argument.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    Until you play toon who gets WTFfacerolled on 9/10 encounters, then finally find an endgame keeper who can't kill you with MR, who whines that he was hoping he'd be able to kill you, you don't actually know how broken melee is.
    That only tells us that kippurs are broken.
    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

    MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  5. #45
    hmm. well, the funny thing about keepers is that with TL7 towers, they are damn tough to kill, even impossible as MA without SA hotswap.

    I'm really hoping that MA's get some more tools to kill with. A weak AS and 17 second recharge while trying to maintain functionality with fists takes a ridiculous amount of patience to kill any toon with even remotely functional defences.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    Until you play toon who gets WTFfacerolled on 9/10 encounters,
    hmm

    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    hmm. well, the funny thing about keepers is that ... they are damn tough to kill, even impossible as MA without SA hotswap.
    i see.

    What was your point again?
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuisinartBlade View Post
    to be fair, 2.8k ar is enough to perk anyone except fixers, mas, advs, shades, nt's that blinded you, shield mps, bow mps that landed dazzle, def docs, crats, or marinesold

    so all in all it's a fairly viable setup

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    Until you play toon who gets WTFfacerolled on 9/10 encounters, then finally find an endgame keeper who can't kill you with MR, who whines that he was hoping he'd be able to kill you, you don't actually know how broken melee is.

    Until you play it, max it, get as good as you can be, and still get jammed by snares/roots/ kiting until you turn the game off in disgust, you DON'T know melee.

    Until you find me one even encounter where a ranged toon can't utilize game synch to kill ANY melee prof, you have no argument.
    I knew I should have used auno link, capslock and maybe some big red arrows flashing with lights on my signature, it's a lot too discrete as it is...

    Snares and roots, for one thing are getting lolreworkednerfed while anti CC tools (that several profs, including keepers, do have if they deem it that crippling to be CCed) are still there in the balancing docs.

    Kiting and game synch are broken mechanics that have nothing to do with Ranged per se. beside new tools being added (several of which being added to keepers toolset btw), I don't have anything against changing other things to alleviate the burden of those broken mechanics though, like adding an execution time on specials.

    But it's high time everyone, you included, realize that at least 50% of the time ranged profs need to benefit from their range advantage, which also means melees should be in range of their ranged opponent 50% of the time. I think ranged are ready to accept such a time sharing, but to me it just seems like melees are whining for permarange.
    Tribute to Aratink : Racatti and Artyomis will be pale shadows of you as long as they don't have the infamous Clanslator in their sig.
    Noim, Neutral TL7 NT
    Sethis, Neutral TL7 Keeper
    Anthraxal, Omni TL5 Enfotrox

  8. #48
    If the reality for melee profs were as bad as it is portraid here, then there really wouldnt be any melee users at all. This is clearly not the case. I see melee professions killing ranged professions all the time. Despite the following claims:

    "melee can never catch up to ranged"
    "ranged always kites melee"
    "ranged use CC to keep melee perma rooted or snared"
    "ranged have superior weapon special compared to melee"
    etc, etc

    Which means that the exagerated complains from a few deluded individuals from the melee community are just so much wind.
    General of First Order

  9. #49
    ermmm Don... the fact is that.

    melee can catch up to ranged some times.
    Ranged always has the possibility to kite.. not everyone use it tho.
    some ranged for example NTs can atleast keep enfs perma rooted if they choose to.
    Ranged does have superior wepon specials to melee:
    AS vs SA
    FA vs Dimach
    Fling vs Fast attack
    Burst vs Brawl.

    with the exception of fast attack and fling all ranged specials are superior then melees.

    AS has higher crit mods and lower recharge cap then SA.
    Fling and Fast attack is about equal.
    Burst has faster recharge and higher dmg then brawl.
    Full auto has 11 sec recharge, Dimach has 30 min recharge tho Dimach always hits.
    Moonbolt - 220/26/something. Trox Enf RK1 General of Hells Heroes.
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    Mooncloud - 150/18/somethin solitus MA.

  10. #50
    rofl @ zazen as a tool for anything but melee vs melee duels and pvm soloing

  11. #51
    Yes, and dispite of this, melee profs still kill ranged profs. That must mean that all these things that ranged have over melee must balance out the things melee have over ranged. But these things like superior damage, health, healing, defense and CC immunities, are never brought up are they?
    General of First Order

  12. #52
    I think that people are trying to imply that they are quite fed up with the situation. Ranged advy can offer classic example of the situation.

    Why in the earth would ranged advy be a sitting duck for MA. They will run if you can alpha them past certain limit (even though you commonly wont even perk them). They have this "get out of jail" card, MA can never catch advy. Never, if they truly want so. Fixer can do the same of course.

    I have played MA for about 7 years so I can give quite good insight what it is like be in constant disadvantage in open pvp. Its almost funny to chase people around and fire AS every 11s, just imagine the damage difference that ranged professions are producing in open pvp.

    Anarchy Online should definetly offer melee professions a special ability with proper cooldown that would closen this gap instantly, momentarily, and give the melee profession a well deserved chance. Not everyone are playing enfos.
    /Jekonam | 220 ma
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    /Jekonuke | 150 nt

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Doniger View Post
    Yes, and dispite of this, melee profs still kill ranged profs. That must mean that all these things that ranged have over melee must balance out the things melee have over ranged. But these things like superior damage, health, healing, defense and CC immunities, are never brought up are they?
    Superior? ha, right.

    I wonder what does more damage than an NT perking, using IU and SI, or an NT that uses LE nukes on low HP targets?

    Solds/Agents sure do craptastic damage to enfs amirite? indeed

    Fixers have really low evades/defense? ha

    Melees have much more healing than a doc? sure

    Soldiers have much more effective HP than an enf if they throw up AMS5

    Seems fixers don't have cc immunities now too... and seems fixers/crats/agents/NTs/traders lost their nano based cc removal tools too


  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Doniger View Post
    If the reality for melee profs were as bad as it is portraid here, then there really wouldnt be any melee users at all. This is clearly not the case. I see melee professions killing ranged professions all the time. Despite the following claims:

    "melee can never catch up to ranged"
    "ranged always kites melee"
    "ranged use CC to keep melee perma rooted or snared"
    "ranged have superior weapon special compared to melee"
    etc, etc

    Which means that the exagerated complains from a few deluded individuals from the melee community are just so much wind.
    good post. nice to see common sense isn't dead.
    --Clan "Howlin" Messiah



    Howlin banned indefinitely by Gorafk Reason: Clan "Howlin" Messiah

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Weltall View Post
    Superior? ha, right.
    Ok, you are slow, I know this, so you probably dont know why your post is full of crap. I'll use sarcasm and reverse it for you, so that maybe you'll have an epiphany.

    Quote Originally Posted by Weltall View Post
    I wonder what does more damage than an NT perking, using IU and SI, or an NT that uses LE nukes on low HP targets?
    I cant really comment on the stupidity of you thinking NTs not being able to use that on ranged profs, as well as being just as much a pain in the ass against EVERYONE. I can just as well use NTs as an example of why ranged sux then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Weltall View Post
    Solds/Agents sure do craptastic damage to enfs amirite? indeed
    Ma/Enfs sure do craptastic damage to crats? indeed

    Quote Originally Posted by Weltall View Post
    Fixers have really low evades/defense? ha
    MAs/Shades have really low evades/defenses? ha

    Quote Originally Posted by Weltall View Post
    Melees have much more healing than a doc? sure
    Again laughable since if the Doc goes MA, I can use the same argument against ranged. Ranged have much more healing than a MA doc? sure

    But Ill give another; Soldiers/Engies/Crats/Traders/Fixers have much more healing than a MA/Enf/Adv/Keeper? sure

    Quote Originally Posted by Weltall View Post
    Soldiers have much more effective HP than an enf if they throw up AMS5
    Enfs have much more effective HP than a engie period.

    Quote Originally Posted by Weltall View Post
    Seems fixers don't have cc immunities now too... and seems fixers/crats/agents/NTs/traders lost their nano based cc removal tools too
    Just as all melee seems to conveniently forget about their own CC immunities and cc removale tools.

    See how I conveniently used only the profs to state my point just like you did? How I just happened to not compare the professions that are exceptions? Funny how that works when you just choose to ignore it.
    Last edited by Doniger; Aug 30th, 2010 at 20:35:38.
    General of First Order

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonbolt View Post
    ermmm Don... the fact is that.

    AS has higher crit mods and lower recharge cap then SA.
    However, in some cases, SA can be combined with BS, so it's a sort of double AS at melee range (even tho BS can miss here and there)?

    Fling and Fast attack is about equal.
    Not really. You can't fling without stopping you char for a brief moment.

    Burst has faster recharge and higher dmg then brawl.
    However, burst doesn't have fairly high chance of stunning your target, even if you actually missed it.

    Full auto has 11 sec recharge, Dimach has 30 min recharge tho Dimach always hits.
    Not every ranged profession has access to reliable FA weapon.

    Seriously, it's silly to make this kind of comparison when each option has its ups and downs.
    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

    MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by -Klod- View Post
    However, in some cases, SA can be combined with BS, so it's a sort of double AS at melee range (even tho BS can miss here and there)?
    Only 2 profs can use it. Although I wouldn't expect someone who doesn't play the game to know that ^^
    Dagger 220/30/70 Shade // Attempted 219/24/?? Enforcer // Canidae 180/0/0 Adventurer // World 185/26/32 Meta-Physicist// Cramp 150/20/35 Engineer
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  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by notcrattey View Post
    Only 2 profs can use it.
    Your point being...?

    The fact is, it's out there. Just like 11 sec FA, even though only ONE prof can use this one reliably enough to make it worth.
    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

    MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Shrubberyman View Post
    Sorry Gatester, it might have hold some water if you at least had had the intellectual honesty of mentioning ANTI CC TOOLS in the same way you mentioned CC tools.
    Quote Originally Posted by Insane666 View Post
    as long as we would tone down dmg on meele in general sure, becouse right now meeles have access to better dmg in order to compensate for the kite/synch issues in pvp

    just compare the min-max dmg on ranged vs meele weaps, compare the alphas aswell, meele's are in general more heavy hitters, theres a reason ranged ppl kite ( and why meeles can hit while running, aswell as why it was ranged profs that got cc in ao, ao devs just went a dif way then most other mmo's devs did - were meeles are in general faster then ranged )

    and not every ranged prof has CC, and not every ranged is soldier ( only1 to cap FA 11sec ), and etc
    besides we all know good enuff that in ao its more about alpha then dps ( wich is supposed to change, but since its a joint current/future situation discussion its a valid argument ) ,and only meele thats lacking somewhat in this departament would be keeper, and thats only vs high hp profs, but this is somewhat justified by their survivability
    Someone claimed melee professions do more damage than ranged professions, so much so that their alphas not only should be nerfed, but their regular damage as well. They also claimed not all ranged professions had CC tools, but the majority actually have them (Anti-CC was not brought into question, but I can make that list as well if needed).

    Now tell me soldiers, agents, ranged adventurers, engineers, and NTs do so little damage in pvp that melee professions should be nerfed to match their damage. Actually, if we were "nerfed" to match their damage, I would be upset at how OP melee would be against my ranged pvpers. That is actually the sort of nerfing I would like to see for 2hb enforcers with a complete removal of alpha damage.

    This does change at lower levels obviously. Regular hits count for something when they can cap on your health, and those lower melee weapons need a massive nerf to be fair. At the same time, agent and MP damage is near ridiculous and needs as much if not more nerfing to be balanced, so it is not limited to melee professions.

    It is a very complex situation and would take several pages to properly describe the pvp situations at all levels accurately, but claiming melee "regular" damage is superior to ranged profession damage and needs to be nerfed is the absolute dumbest thing anyone has said to date about melee professions.

    (PS, You should run your posts through Microsoft Word Insane)

    Quote Originally Posted by Doniger View Post
    If the reality for melee profs were as bad as it is portraid here, then there really wouldnt be any melee users at all. This is clearly not the case. I see melee professions killing ranged professions all the time. Despite the following claims:

    "melee can never catch up to ranged"
    "ranged always kites melee"
    "ranged use CC to keep melee perma rooted or snared"
    "ranged have superior weapon special compared to melee"
    etc, etc

    Which means that the exagerated complains from a few deluded individuals from the melee community are just so much wind.
    Players do stupid things, even me with my tl5 ranged advy. I could easily switch to melee and be pretty damn dangerous, but I am an idiot and decide to follow my choice through till the end. Then there are your claims of "exaggerated" claims. Unfortunately, you cannot support most of the complaints about professions like enforcers without supporting those arguments as well.

    "melee can never catch up to ranged"
    "No one can catch a raging enforcer"

    Somewhat exaggerated, but its definitely possible for this to happen. When people choose to run its hard to catch them. The difference for ranged is that they have or can attack you at those distances.

    "ranged always kites melee"
    "people are always kiting, especially against pets"

    If you can kite, and it's better to kite, you will. Again, ranged users maintain the ability to attack at a distance, melee does not. In order for melee to kite and attack, they have to be in your attack range, which ofc only works as a defense against pets. Pets need boosts against kiters, melee need less boosts against kiters.

    "ranged use CC to keep melee perma rooted or snared"
    "I cannot use my CC on melee profs and their CC immunities"

    At lower levels only the first is true, and I have said it a hundred times but my 30 agent kills 49 enforcers by chain spamming the NOOB ISLAND root on them. I even do this up until tl5 against several professions.

    When the second starts to become true we then hit the issue of a toolset that is designed to ignore other toolsets. This in my opinion is unbalanced. CC immunities and CC tools are both being justifiably nerfed.

    "ranged have superior weapon special compared to melee"
    "melee have superior alphas compared to ranged"
    "LE nukes are too powerful"
    etc

    Well, yes. All are true. They are tied together in an overpowering lock where one tool being stupidly strong makes another justified. When AS is nerfed, then the only balance is to nerf alphas alongside it. At this point, LE nukes have nothing of comparable strength and have to be removed.

    Right now you can say the enforcer 1he+1hb alpha is overpowered, and I will just say you have AS or AS+FA or LE nukes. It's like a spitting contest, no one really proves anything, we all just know it's wrong.

  20. #60
    I'll give you guys the quote for melee vs ranged.

    If ranged professions could not use their toolset from 10 meters or closer, then melee and ranged would be equal.

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