ALL Melee Users Need To Catch Up To Their Target

[Kimarzt]

In the August 27th Friday with(out) Means, Kintaii mentioned that Enfrocers will be getting something new to help them catch up to their targets, similar to Keepers getting Clarion Call. While we haven't seen all the changes to the professions, I just wanted to point out that this is a problem for all melee users, and not just the professions who traditionally use melee.


Basically, catching up to people is not a profession specific problem. It's a weapon choice specific one that impacts all melee users.


I know that we don't know what else is coming, but I don't want to see less traditional setups fall to the wayside. I'm talking about doctors and engineers with martial arts, MP's with 1hb, etc. Even adventurers prefer pistols because of this. It would be a shame to have even more cookie-cutter setups because non-traditional melee can't get close enough to do anything.

So, please keep this in mind. I don't know how the new "buffs" like clarion call will be implemented, but something that does not check your profession, but instead checks the range of your equipped weapon would be fantastic. And to prevent hot-swap abuse by ranged users, have it also increase the un-equip time of your weapon to 60 seconds or something.

Thanks

[Taranide]

Then the power most melee users have must be toned down, so the ranged user doesn't go down with a splat.

[Kinkstaah]

Then the power most melee users have must be toned down, so the ranged user doesn't go down with a splat.

If a melee user is in melee range, a ranged users ONLY priority should be to get out of melee range ASAP, no exceptions (maybe soldier )

But in regards to docs with melee, in that case need to provide support for SMG enforcers to be able to land fullautos at capped recharge, on evaders.

..yeah.

[bitnykk]

i think melee perks ranges have been increased. but rest is just logical : most PVMers that can, go melee as the damage is often more reliable ; and most PVPers that can, go ranged as it's somehow more convenient for most professions.

beside, i've always wanted to see implemented a gradient for ranged weapons :
- duck : if you're close to target you do more damage then further
- dodge : if you're far from target you do more damage then closer
that might be increase/decrease the crit chances accordingly ? just suggesting.

[Weltall]

Not too sure about the reasoning for giving MAs zazen to counter kiting though. What, are we gonna use zazen and keep healing ourselves and not kill anything?

Against solds or something I guess that can be useful, but anything with debuffs are gonna royally screw you over since yeah you stay back and heal up but yet get an assload of debuffs thrown on you if you do stay back against things like agents/docs/crats/traders/NTs

wtb tractor beam instead :/

[ihaveshirts]

I know this has been in other games obviously, but what about like a charge or a leap type of skill specificly given to melee users and have the recharge on it like 5-10 secs more or less.

[Shrubberyman]

Well, you see, the trouble is that if as a melee user you could catch everything, PvP would only be some stupid close combat brawl with swords and guns, Ô the epic fun...

CC is getting nerfed to hell and back while anti CC tools are safe and cosy in their silk cocoon. Run speed is supposedly getting reworked into an indigest blend of "same speed, just not quite same".

I don't think melees need that much more lub in the ranged vs melee soft ball contest...

[Gatester]

I don't think melees need that much more lub in the ranged vs melee soft ball contest...

As someone with 100% ranged based pvpers, ranged just needs more nerfs to their distance advantage. 40 meter distance with 99% of the ranged toolset is not balanced.

[Shrubberyman]

0o

Now, to be 100% sure I would have to go through the all the perk docs, but iirc, the 40m ranged perks can be counted on the fingers of max three hands. 1 and a half would most likely be enough.

Edit : Damn you. Gotta check it out.

Edit 2 : checked it out. As I thought only some Agents and Sols specials hit the 40m range. Among group perks, infantry, power up and Starfall hit 35m. That's about it. Are they worth only 1%?

[Mekh]

Are they worth only 1%?

compared to 1-3 meters.... yup...

[Xtremtech]

checked it out. As I thought only some Agents and Sols specials hit the 40m range.

I think his point is that it's easy enough to get them up to (or near enough) the ranged cap of 40m with range inc.

X

[-Klod-]

I know this has been in other games obviously, but what about like a charge or a leap type of skill specificly given to melee users and have the recharge on it like 5-10 secs more or less.

You mean, like we have it in AoC today? Yeah, great way to kill a game.

[Shrubberyman]

compared to 1-3 meters.... yup...

Hmm? Gate was saying 99% of ranged profession toolset hit the 40m range. Perks being what they are, they represent a lot more than 1% of a profession toolset, don't you think? Also, melee perks are planned to reach 5-8m.

I think his point is that it's easy enough to get them up to (or near enough) the ranged cap of 40m with range inc.

I got that, and to avoid nitpicking, I also mentioned the perks with 35m range. Truth of the matter (and no, you ain't getting me to go through all perklines again at this hour to list them), 20-25m range perks are a lot more common.

So, all in all, more often than not, it's a gap of 12-20m that melees will have to bridge as far as perks are concerned.

[Animistic]

Bump for this.

Tried suggesting something related about tl5 where lack of runspeed makes this even more ridicilous issue for some profs, but as expected all i got was bunch of trolls in the thread.

[Kimarzt]

But in regards to docs with melee, in that case need to provide support for SMG enforcers to be able to land fullautos at capped recharge, on evaders.

This is a really unfair comparison. Doctors only have 2 light blue weapon skills, Pistol and Martial Arts. Martial arts have always been a viable weapon choice for doctors and the damage done by a melee doctor and a ranged doctor are very comparable. Maybe you like cookie cutter builds, but I don't.

[Moonbolt]

no it isnt since docs are supposed to do most fo their dmg thru nanos.

[Shrubberyman]

no it isnt since docs are supposed to do most fo their dmg thru nanos.

Docs are given a cyberdeck option to push their nano based dding. Which means they are also left with the option of not going with a cyberdeck and dd through weapons. So actually FC deems both ways to be right for a doctor.

[Gatester]

95% then

[Moonbolt]

Docs are given a cyberdeck option to push their nano based dding. Which means they are also left with the option of not going with a cyberdeck and dd through weapons. So actually FC deems both ways to be right for a doctor.

even if they go with a wepon option they will still be able to do dmg with nanos.
docs are not a wepon class, and specially nto a melee class.
same as engineers are a pet class with the choice of different wepons not a melee class.

[Shrubberyman]

Don't be silly, every prof, bar NTs since SL, have been so far weapon profs as well as nano profs and sometimes pet profs (look how one of the most proeminent melee professions has been so recently noisy about their nanos!!!). Now, are docs supposed or not to use Melee weapons is arguable indeed, but they are a weapon prof, even if a feeble one.

Even if I disagree with the surprising 2010 trend which consist for melee users to consider they should always be in range of their opponent no matter what, more viable setups is a lot better than more cookie cutters setups. What do you care if docs are given some support in the melee field, anyway.