So really what is wrong with people

[Xenotric]

The main issue I have with what your saying is that its not terribly different to saying do events elsewhere, the minute you limit the events in certain area's to ones that "the majority" will enjoy is the minute you remove the variation of events and make it so the more hardcore RP central ones have to be done in the middle of no where to avoid people.

The whole "I can't get involved so I shall grief" attitude is whats wrong, NOT the fact that not every event is easy to wander up to and be the main role.

Some events are from a long storyline that those that enjoy RP have spent time and energy to get involved with, having those things removed because some people couldn't get into it would be like removing skills and abilities because "other people don't have them", you have to live with the fact that sometimes you don't have things others have be it pvp equipment, class skills or an established role in a storyline, if because you don't have this you whine until its removed from everyone... well that's just being childish and will result in the game ending.

So no, don't change the events to pander to the would be griefers, punish them and let them know that that sort of behavior is NOT ok, because it isn't! If they honestly didn't mean to be griefing and just wanted to get involved after the first warning they'd stop, if they ignore it then their obviously just trying to harass and as such should get punished.

After a while everyone will key in and when an event they can't get involved happens they wont go grief they'll just ignore it and carry on with their game, just like any major harassment cases end and discourage further harassment.

As for the examples about bubba and kotts, I believe the difference is they'd probably stop if asked to (and if they didn't then yes, they deserve punishment same as any harasser.)

I'd also like to point out that as stated before, even in events open for everyone to easily and freely participate there is greifers, should these ones also not be punished? there no longer harassing just "3 people enjoying an event" but an entire zone trying to enjoy it, or should the events be watered down even more to allow their griefing to become participation at the expense of yet more depth and fun?

[Towerblock]

Oh punish me baby... XD hahah

[Tryqz]

Some events are from a long storyline that those that enjoy RP have spent time and energy to get involved with, having those things removed because some people couldn't get into it would be like removing skills and abilities because "other people don't have them", you have to live with the fact that sometimes you don't have things others have be it pvp equipment, class skills or an established role in a storyline, if because you don't have this you whine until its removed from everyone... well that's just being childish and will result in the game ending.

Everyone with combined armour and OFAB should have it removed, because I don't want to spend my time doing alien raids and BS to be able to get some of my own.

So no, don't change the events to pander to the would be griefers, punish them and let them know that that sort of behavior is NOT ok, because it isn't! If they honestly didn't mean to be griefing and just wanted to get involved after the first warning they'd stop, if they ignore it then their obviously just trying to harass and as such should get punished.

After a while everyone will key in and when an event they can't get involved happens they wont go grief they'll just ignore it and carry on with their game, just like any major harassment cases end and discourage further harassment.

This.
When it's not worth their time to grief events, most will just ignore them.

I'd also like to point out that as stated before, even in events open for everyone to easily and freely participate there is greifers, should these ones also not be punished? there no longer harassing just "3 people enjoying an event" but an entire zone trying to enjoy it, or should the events be watered down even more to allow their griefing to become participation at the expense of yet more depth and fun?

This has been a problem in the past, with large scale PvM events like alien city raids, where one person with a flag and some poorly placed AoEs could lead to massive city-wide gankfests once the contagious flags spread across the zone.

[FoosballX]

Again I think the point here is being missed by a lot of people. Or at least in what I'm saying.
I'm not talking about someone that walks by and makes a few snappy comments about RPers, or even someone there trying to get involved with the event and just doesn't know the "proper etiquette".
Yes griefing with happen, and no matter how many rules you put in place. Okay fine, but at some point in time a line needs to be drawn. A player keeps standing on top of the LTC and complaining about RP and RPers, he's teleported off and then comes back and does it again, and again, and again. He's clearly going out of his way to try and ruin the event just because he can. My point is someone, who is being talked too, warned, ect... at some point in time should be punished.
This isn't about catering to the "hard core" RP crowd. It's about dealing with someone who is being a jerk just because they can and there's no consequence if they are. And guess what bad behavior is more contagious then good behavior. but I know that's them having fun so we should just let them.

I mean I don't know, if there's an LTC doing some kind of speech or talking to people. You have 12 players standing around them. 3 are interacting following the "proper" way to RP, 4 are just saying random things here and there trying to get involved. 3 are standing there saying nothing at all really, and finally you have 2 that are clearing the chat screen, standing on/humping the LTC and bitching and complaining about RP and making fun of everyone there and nothing is done about it, who is really being catered too?

Oh but I know if someone gets in trouble for being a jerk, it's going to ruin it for anyone that wants to get involved later on. Which in my opinion is false. If anything I think if there was punishment for those that really go above and beyond "normal" griefing, those that go out of there way to really make fun of people and try to ruin the event. If those people were dealt with in a more serious way. You would see more people coming out to things cause they a) wouldn't have to worry about being ridiculed, b) Feeling like the event was a waste of time because of the jerks that ruined it.

but I know any kind of punishment will lead to someone making an off colored comment about RP at an event will cause them to be permabanned.

As far as this is the internet defense. Sure this is just a game, but digital or flesh it's still a community in where there is a level of acceptable behavior to be tolerated. And usually if someone asks you to stop because you said something offensive you're suppose too. Granted sometimes finding the line on what's acceptable and what's not is hard. But in most cases, (and I mean most, please don't throw out exceptions to the rule garbage at me, cause there far and few between that's why they're called exceptions) it's easy to tell if the person is trying to be offensive or just being taken the wrong way.

But whatever, I know a few on here (not naming names) subscribe to the ideals of "it okay for people to do whatever, unless they piss me off then they're wrong".

[Wolfowitz]

To sum up what's been said, nobody is talking about not RPing in Borealis, and if someone was, they've already been dissuaded to death. Furthermore, punishment is necessary for RP griefers. I agree.

I also think that RP griefers are just a symptom of a bigger disease, one that we're not going to be able to solve just by talking about it on the forums, especially not in a corner of the forums that no one but us visits. But, just because I think it'd be an interesting turn for the discussion, and not just us complaining, I think the reason people disrupt these events is because of a decline in the appeal of literature. Good literature.

[Ms_Idoru]

I think we need more discipline in schools, personally.
Bring back caning!

[KittyMeow]

I don't usually chime in on the forums that often, but I think i would like to let my opinion be known about this situation.

As my tenure in roleplaying in Ao has been short up until now, I have notice alot of things lately that coincides with the situation mentioned.

LTC's and Blue Named Players ( event Arks) will pop up and the RP crowd starts there ingame engines and start RP'ing. Small crowd gathers around the Ark and acts as a beacon of light to all the other players in the playfield and 8 out of 10 times, chaos ensues.

Humpers, polymorph spamming, Enfos with a metric butt ton of +scale% hopping into a hydro vehicle on top of the Ark show in force and disrupts the flow of the event, even if it is a small one ( an example of this being a Shepard losing his small flock of baby brontos in OA).

Now over the years, many to be exact, i have played other media outlets of RP'ing from your classic PnP to LAN games to other MMO's. The thing is that unlike AO, these games were based off of the original PnP as for-mentioned and the player base in the MMO version is dead set for RP'ing, outnumbering the playerbase of non RP'ers two to one. This is because the game was built faithfully on that system from PnP. AO on the other hand as much promise of the original staff that launched it, failed to hold the dynamic storyline as promised, sans small spirts of this like the Omni "invasion" of Borealis and the re-arming of Tir Guards with Alien Technology ( playerbase had to be involved for that to happen)

In my opinion, since there isn't a governing system for RP'ing involved from the get go, there needs to be a way to service the RP community that not only does not disrupt the other players that play this game, be it paid and froob alike, as well as not ostracize the RP community for doing what they love to do with there time being paid and froob players.

The RP community has over the years not only developed ingame bots to help gather this community in real time ingame, but have been striving to get the word out as well. These bots run off of servers that some player in some shape or form has to pay for be it there personal rig and the electric bill being used, to renting space in a server farm. That shows dedication to the game that they already pay into.

So what i am guessing im trying to get at is that the Devs need to step up there game and cater to its player base in all forms. I think that a warning should be given, then if it continues, you should warp them into the water in Southern Foul Hill in the SW corner. Make them swim to shore and make there way back. IF they didnt learn the lesson or they though they were smart by using there RK beacon, do it again... They will get the picture quick.

[Elder]

Basically, my opinion's pretty much the same as Kitty.

However, I think the only way the situation will ever be easier to maintain is if there was a dedicated RPing server where part of the terms and conditions of using it go with what's been suggested here (RP griefing, OOC spamming etc).

[Metafizis]

..warp them into the water in Southern Foul Hill in the SW corner. Make them swim to shore and make there way back. IF they didnt learn the lesson or they though they were smart by using there RK beacon, do it again... They will get the picture quick.

Reading this thread I had the same idea, but had in mind the middle of Adonis.

[Leileena]

Reading this thread I had the same idea, but had in mind the middle of Adonis.

That would eventually make RP harassment a very interesting pastime for froobs though :P

[Boltgun]

That would eventually make RP harassment a very interesting pastime for froobs though :P

They would crash loop. You grief, have fun petitioning on an alt.

Imo that's just it, it always happened. If someone disrupt the play, one ark can stay behind in hidden mode to warp them out or directly kill them. After a few slaps it stop usually and it can be forgotten.

For player events, just remember, know your fellow players. If you make it in a crowded area, you need to plan backup solutions. And imo there is nothing wrong in doing stuff in a remote location, going as far as Meetmedere prevent any trouble.

[Leileena]

Froobs don't really crash in SL if they have the large client..


Okay, okay, I'll stop being off topic now.

[Keldros]

or player events, just remember, know your fellow players. If you make it in a crowded area, you need to plan backup solutions. And imo there is nothing wrong in doing stuff in a remote location, going as far as Meetmedere prevent any trouble.

Plenty of places have buildings you can enter...mostly more remote places, but there are plenty of doors in Tir, or WA, or Wine...and a couple in Borealis.

Also, some of the bigger cities (Trade and Athen) have buildings that are basically static dungeons populated by level 5 mobs...there's also a cave near Rhino Cockpit like this.

[Ikarus]

A lot of other games have dedicated servers for RP where the gameplay is the same but much stricter rules get enforced to accommodate a friendly environment for roleplaying.

Well... in theory. I think it depends on the game. Whether they want to build officially on role-playing or whether they just take what they can get, regarding player base.
I spend quite some time in Lotro, which has really a beautiful world and much of 'fluff' in it. Starting with some basic housing, many social armor pieces and non-combat festivities and a hobby.
Together with a similar great writing staff they have created a world with ample possibilities for roleplaying.
Turbine, however, doesn't support it. They have no role-playing servers. The european publisher (Codemasters) did. They set up a RP-server each for german, french and english customers. They even have a more rigid naming policy and some rules that say "Everything outside the OOC and team/organisation channel has to be IC".
They do, however, only enforce the first one and of course take care the more serious offenders, similar to those humpers. I think this is something FC really needs to do, too. If they get punished for willingy disrupting events they won't proceed to do it, simple as that.

As dedicated role-playing servers go: No, they don't help to form a "better role-playing enviroment" for rpers. There are many shades of rp-involvement, from more hardcore players who tend to be 100% IC to those who like to do some light rp. And then there are those who like a server with "a nicer tone between players", which will sooner or later form the silent majority on those RP-servers. They don't really disturb, as they won't spam, hump or do anything offensive. But they aren't there, they won't engage in RP.

As a game, AO offers really more stuff for RP than any "big" MMO out there, together with old SWG. Tons of social armor, many different social hang-outs&clubs and in general a game play that feels much more like a solid RPG. It is, basically, one of the last men standing in the order of MMORPGs. And that is without a dedicated role-playing server.
Tons of stuff to use in RP, live events, and a developing story line are actually the things I love about this game. And I know: The story line isn't rushing along. But compared to other games? Oh yea. Even a glacier looks fast to them.
Besides, check the database. Every second item will have a description with some hints and more details than any game I know. You know, "This is a pretty golden ear-ring" with uber stats. But in AO, you'll read this on a crap item I just randomly selected after searching for 'gun'.
As a note to any FC official who reads this: Proceed to do this.


edit: Hm.. got a little OT I guess. Well, that happens when I get carried away.

[MassDebater]

hypothetical here: say the majority wanted to disrupt your event and rp as homoerotic bikini wearing males. would you accept it?

[Bubbacrush]

Hypothetical here: Say my friends and I wanted to burst into your office at work IRL wearing Village People outfits and dragged you off for a night of Homoerotic bikini time, would you accept it?

[FoosballX]

I have to say after reading some of the comments. I really have to say I'm sorry I started this thread.

[MassDebater]

Hypothetical here: Say my friends and I wanted to burst into your office at work IRL wearing Village People outfits and dragged you off for a night of Homoerotic bikini time, would you accept it?

That is not comparable. Because you have no right to be in my office.

People DO have the right to RP as anything in bor.

So as I asked, IF the majority of people wanted to RP as a bikini wearing homoerotic males, would you accept it?

[Bubbacrush]

That is not comparable. Because you have no right to be in my office.

People DO have the right to RP as anything in bor.

So as I asked, IF the majority of people wanted to RP as a bikini wearing homoerotic males, would you accept it?

Incorrect. It is precisely the same thing. You invade someone else's space and purposely make them feel uncomfortable. Flower it up with all the right you think they should have on the internet, but its still a dick move. And of course, pissing people off this way should yield a disciplinary response... much like it does IRL. Just because you think its okay, doesn't mean that your presence does not impress upon those around you. In fact, its pretty lame to suggest that the reason RP griefers do this sort of thing is because you have the right to be a jerk, for any reason.. simply because there is no rule that says you cannot. I'll even go further to suggest that in the event people do that, it is precisely for that reason.

[MassDebater]

Incorrect. It is precisely the same thing. You invade someone else's space and purposely make them feel uncomfortable. Flower it up with all the right you think they should have on the internet, but its still a dick move. And of course, pissing people off this way should yield a disciplinary response... much like it does IRL. Just because you think its okay, doesn't mean that your presence does not impress upon those around you. In fact, its pretty lame to suggest that the reason RP griefers do this sort of thing is because you have the right to be a jerk, for any reason.. simply because there is no rule that says you cannot. I'll even go further to suggest that in the event people do that, it is precisely for that reason.

So basically, you dont like people in bikinis, so its griefing? Bor isnt YOUR space either.

Well then, I dont like people pretending to be omni trans employees with an endless backstory about how they hate their life. So they are greifing.