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Thread: So really what is wrong with people

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Xenotric View Post
    As for not doing RP in certain zones... well that's ridiculous.
    Ugh... please try reading again. I've said pretty much the same thing 3 times now... I give up. If you think I want RPers to go and hide in certain zones or think I'm condoning harassment, fine.

    But... If you're actually interested. I don't think RP griefing is acceptable. But I understand that it happens.. I've spoken to griefers calmly and had fun with them afterwards. Griefing is a part of any aspect of the game and harassment in AO has its punishments. There should not be some special punishment for RP griefers... especially when, in so many cases, it can be avoided.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenotric View Post
    Not liking something does not give you a valid reason to then harass people participating in it... No other form of harassment is condoned so why should this be?
    The RP community is by far the best at harassing people. Why? Because they're constantly su****ious of people. We're all guilty of it, every one of us posting here. Someone does something unexpected and it's griefing and they're out to spoil our fun, so let's harass them until they leave... or better yet... why not devise special punishment for RP griefers that's different from the punishment for any other form of harassment? Because it's okay to insult the penis size of PvPers, but if an ARK RP character has an avatar stand on top of them... instaban cause they're obviously trying to harass a player character! Right?
    Last edited by Redesine; Aug 28th, 2010 at 15:08:40.
    Advisor of Lumen Orien

  2. #22
    The fact that you say griefing is avoidable still makes me think that you feel that the would be griefers should get the special treatment, for the most part griefing is NOT avoidable, those that like to grief will trackdown the events to do it.

    Im not talking about those that would like to join in but don't know how, but rather those that clearly have no intention of even attempting to join in, this is the humpers, the blockers and the harmful spammers (spamming blank lines etc) these people have no intentions of joining in and are just there to spoil the fun for everyone (not just the hardcore RPers but those other players that may not have done it before but wanted to join in properly)

    As for "special" treatment, I don't think anyone is asking for special treatment so much as the SAME treatment, I've seen griefers warped out of a single event upwards of 10 times and nothing done to them, which makes me think that there is no punishment for it like other harassment, if you had someone spam you with offensive tells and harass you 10 times any other way you'd find they'd be talked to and probably even temporary banned, events griefers get nothing but the satisfaction that their infantile disruptions are having the effect they want.

    Whats more this harassment is directly to the people that take care of all other harassment petitions, if you sent an ark a bunch of offensive tells you'd expect to get into trouble, so why not if your doing this form of harassment too?

  3. #23
    Hmm, perhaps I've come on too strong here.

    I'm really not saying that griefing is okay. I'm also not saying it shouldn't be punished. What I am saying is that if certain types of events happen in certain places, it's unavoidable. Creating harsher (and to be frank, elitist - by some suggestions) punishments is not going to stop it and in fact is more likely to alienate people.

    The solutions are already there. I have to ask: Why is it that some events attract griefers and others do not? The only answer I can see is that in the events with no griefers, there is some way for everyone to take part.

    I'm also saying that it is difficult to tell the difference between someone trying to join in and someone trying to spoil the fun or see what they can get away with - and so it's difficult to decide who deserves what kind of punishment. There were discussions recently in this board about how to piss of a PvPer by humping their character... so I hope you can see my point.

    RPers should not hide. But they should become more inviting, less su****ious and stop feeling like they're victimised more than any other kind of player. Griefing happens across the board in AO and some types are seen as more or less acceptable than others (Tower griefing / ganking / FFA raiding). It's just something you'll have to deal with now and then. And personally I've found that the best way is to talk to them and get them involved. If they're doing it to harass you... then yeah, petition and hopefully they'll be punished. But it's not always like that.

    The general thing I'm trying to say is:

    1) Don't overreact. You'll live longer, you'll have more fun, and you won't encourage more griefing.
    2) If you're doing an event in a crowded area, it had better be something that the crowd can easily get involved with, otherwise it will breed griefing, some of which will be harassment.
    Advisor of Lumen Orien

  4. #24
    The issue with that is its still essentially saying only certain events can be held in certain areas, which is wrong.

    The events should be free to be ran anywhere without having to worry about people harassing them, specially as its all in public area's where technically no one is doing anything interuptable (perhaps if they started having events mid battlestation or middle of sector 42 then I'd say yeah, probably aint a place you want to be doing them).

    If the administrator of borealis wants to go and give a speech to borealis where else can she go?

    And making all events ran in such area's to allow anyone to participate... well that is not possible nor is it a solution, as soon as you make them so anyone can participate straight off without thinking you end up loosing any continuity in storylines and STILL GET GRIEFERS!

    I've seen alien raids and pure "beat up the big monster" events which should be fun and games for everyone get greifed, high levels killing off low level mobs preventing lower levels getting anything, people getting flags and spreading it to kill of people concentrating on the big mob, yet more humping....

    Its not so much about overreacting but more about people getting fed up of having their game time ruined by people who think its fun to annoy people for no reason, and asking for no more a solution to it then anyone would ask for people harassing in other elements but because its "RP" people seem to think its just people being bitchy or overreacting. But I bet if people started getting harassed at this maginitude in any other aspect of the game the forums would have pages of "OMG permabans please!"

    As soon as an appropriate punishment is set up, then the type of event wont matter, the easily involved ones will be involved, the more complex ones will be ran without interuptions, those that would usually have seen this as a point to go grief people for no other reason than "they couldn't get involved" or "its fun" won't because they know if they do they'll be punished for their harassing behaviour.

  5. #25
    In short:

    Reasonable reactions, and punishments for griefers be it pvp, pve, or rp.

    A dick is a dick, no matter what the excuse.
    Point Blank

  6. #26
    I think they're doing it because they think they can. I think what should be done to promote more RP is to make an UN-CLOSABLE popup window that stays up for 10 seconds unless you click "tell me more" or something for all new players. The problem with new players is that they ignore what little information is given to them on noob island 6 times out of 10, anyway. This popup window will explain what "OOC" in "Neu. Newbie OOC" means, what RP is, and how to get involved.

    That way, when griefers show up, it's not because they want to get involved but don't know how (and really, if you wanted to ask Obama or another important world figure a question in a press conference, would you storm the stage and start dragging your naughty bits all over his presidential legs?).

    It's because they don't understand our way of playing and they don't like that other people can have fun without them being able to assert superiority. They might outdamage us on a mob, or gank us in pvp, but they can't speak English or their own language without butchering it (because they're morons) and they can't actually be creative, with the notable exceptions of people like Scummtron and Bubbacrush, but then again, you don't see either of them disrupting events, either.
    A.W. Morgan, Esquire
    Rimor
    West Athens
    Apartment Complex 4/Door 4

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Kotts View Post
    In short:

    Reasonable reactions, and punishments for griefers be it pvp, pve, or rp.

    A dick is a dick, no matter what the excuse.
    Aye, the simplest explanation is often the most correct.

    But the truth of the matter is that this is still the internets. How many people sit behind a screen and know they can get away with pretty much anything they please within the given paradigm. Answer: All of us, even the RPr's. We just follow the unwritten ettiquette.
    Last edited by Bubbacrush; Aug 28th, 2010 at 21:49:54.
    Towerblock, 220/30/70 Engineer
    President of Steadfast

    And way too many alts...

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Xenotric View Post

    If the administrator of borealis wants to go and give a speech to borealis where else can she go?
    But, but, We're trying to play our GAME in this place, where you want to PLAY YOUR GAME!

    </sarcasm>
    Uni "Unixint80" Idoru, 206/13 Neutral NT Veteran of Shattered Dreams
    What I've Got My Perk Setup My Nuke Setup (All slightly outdated)

    FREE BOREALIS!!!

  9. #29
    Totally.

    I was trying to drive down a road today, and there were all these CARS everywhere getting in my way! Some of them were PARKED, at the SIDE OF THE ROAD! Just sitting there doing nothing where they didn't interfere with anything, except by BEING THERE, there presence just OFFENDING ME!

    The nerve of some people!
    Trixie "Tryqz" Rhaiyne, Newland Council Science Minister

  10. #30
    Exactly! I was in Camelot the other day, and this massive "Tarrasque" thing just turned up and KILLED ME, totally out of the blue! This sort of thing spoils the fun of the game, "I'm not having this" I thought.

    /petition
    Uni "Unixint80" Idoru, 206/13 Neutral NT Veteran of Shattered Dreams
    What I've Got My Perk Setup My Nuke Setup (All slightly outdated)

    FREE BOREALIS!!!

  11. #31
    A lot of other games have dedicated servers for RP where the gameplay is the same but much stricter rules get enforced to accommodate a friendly environment for roleplaying. For example, stricter name policy (has to fit into the game lore) for both players and guilds, very strict no-griefing rules (some people tolerate it more than others, but it really is fairly easy to get banned from the server) - on another MMO I play this means OOC players who want a more atmospheric, less LOL I PWNZ U kind of environment coexist with the RPers who in turn get to explore the storyline in peace and quiet without disruption. People still do game content, questing and raids but there's a very distinct kind of harmony going on and I love it.

    Thus, if AO's population skyrockets after engine launch, I strongly suggest dedicating one server for this kind of immersive play and focusing all LTC activity on that single server. This would give us a chance to group both RK1 and RK2 roleplayers in one, giving us much larger RPer populations, and it would save ARK resources as they would not need to run the same events on two (or more) separate servers. People who still want to just tackle game content OOCly would be at liberty to do so, assuming they do it with respect to the roleplaying population, and everyone would benefit from it.
    Allowing OOC players to the server would still keep raid and team content running - assuming the game manages to attract enough new players at engine launch. This server should, indeed, be created at the same time the engine goes live.

  12. #32
    That is a discriminatory policy that can't work too well, especially in a game like AO where the RP side of the story can have a large impact on the game world.

    For a start, a lot of AO high end content is geared towards fairly well twinked out characters.
    Many RPers would simply choose to play on a non-RP server to enjoy this content, as among RPers there will inevitably be less opportunities for such raiding, and so less enjoyment of the content people have paid for.

    Secondly, storylines and players' involvement in them can lead to NPCs, quests, and updates to zones in subsequent patches. Some small changes, like the Newland Militia changing their equipment, fine. Nobody notices. But larger stuff can impact the game for the non-RPers, and how many of them are going to complain about changes being enforced on their game world because of what happened on a completely different RP server they have no interest in ever playing on?


    Of course, this is a moot point until AO has the player numbers to go toe to toe with games like WoW.
    Which is not going to happen.

    It has a niche, a decent population to keep 2 servers going, but nowhere near a sizeable enough RPer population to maintain a dedicated RP server, and not even an influx of new players with the new engine is likely to add enough RP focused players to make it feasible. We're a minority in the playerbase.
    Uni "Unixint80" Idoru, 206/13 Neutral NT Veteran of Shattered Dreams
    What I've Got My Perk Setup My Nuke Setup (All slightly outdated)

    FREE BOREALIS!!!

  13. #33
    I recommend a concept similar to the D&D Planescape setting's "Mazing"

    A similar concept to my griefer punishment idea already works for BS, with deserter flags.

    Give Events ARKs a nano which uploads a mission "Hard Labour", with no expiry time on it, to their NCU, and warps the player into a generated mission instance. I recommend a Notum mine. Where they have to run from one end of the mine, mine some carbonrich rocks, and then run to the other end and deposit them in a cart.

    The mission requirement can have, say, 500 rocks mined. Once it is accomplished, the door to exit the mine will be unlocked.

    A nice in-character punishment system for people which will discourage griefing, just as deserter discourages BS abuse.
    Trixie "Tryqz" Rhaiyne, Newland Council Science Minister

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Tryqz View Post
    I recommend a concept similar to the D&D Planescape setting's "Mazing"

    A similar concept to my griefer punishment idea already works for BS, with deserter flags.

    Give Events ARKs a nano which uploads a mission "Hard Labour", with no expiry time on it, to their NCU, and warps the player into a generated mission instance. I recommend a Notum mine. Where they have to run from one end of the mine, mine some carbonrich rocks, and then run to the other end and deposit them in a cart.

    The mission requirement can have, say, 500 rocks mined. Once it is accomplished, the door to exit the mine will be unlocked.

    A nice in-character punishment system for people which will discourage griefing, just as deserter discourages BS abuse.
    lol, I like the idea really. Though poor person who, like me, only has 1 or 2 free inventory slots and has to transfer 500 rocks

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Miru View Post
    I strongly suggest dedicating one server for this kind of immersive play
    It's a nice idea... in theory. It'd be nice to merge the RP communities, attract fresh blood, attract (as you say) nice people who like the atmosphere. I get the feeling though that it just wouldn't work out that well.

    In my experience in AO, the people who RP most often are people who don't count themselves in the RP community, don't call themselves RPers and sometimes don't even realise that they're RPing.

    A while ago, for example, I was really active in the TL2 Battlestation, where (believe it or not) RPing was rife. We all messed around in-charater while waiting for it to start, and occasionally even fought in-character. And we had a lot of fun. These are the exact same people I saw at a talky-event saying "laaawl, lame RPers" and borderline griefing. Yeah I was a bit annoyed, but hey.

    You'd never, never persuade these kinds of people to join an RP server and I imagine most RPers wouldn't want them.

    The thing is, on the other side of the coin, the RP community seem to be the least active RPers. Recently I've been trying to announce when there's RP or we're doing an event in AARP or RPchat. Maybe I'm just unpopular, maybe they're busy but it's very rare that any of the established RP crowd come and join in. Random people in Newland respond much better.

    In short, I think that if you got us all together in one place, we'd much rather talk about RP than RP.

    Also, I bet PvP wouldn't be allowed.
    Advisor of Lumen Orien

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Redesine View Post
    The thing is, on the other side of the coin, the RP community seem to be the least active RPers. Recently I've been trying to announce when there's RP or we're doing an event in AARP or RPchat. Maybe I'm just unpopular, maybe they're busy but it's very rare that any of the established RP crowd come and join in. Random people in Newland respond much better.

    In short, I think that if you got us all together in one place, we'd much rather talk about RP than RP.
    I think the biggest reason for this is that the average 'hardcore' roleplayer (myself included) will look at an even announcement and go through something resembling the following thought pattern:
    Would my character be in the area for a good reason?
    Would s/he react to this event in a way that might benefit the event or my character?
    Is it related to my character's interests?
    Would a character-appropriate reaction result in positive or negative events unfolding?
    Do I know the person organising this event? (This matters more than we'd really like to admit, newer RPers are more open-minded on average)
    Do I want to deal with potential powerplayers or metagamers I might get involved with?

    Random people that turn up usually also lack the 'burden' of properly established character history and behavior patterns that would for example inhibit them from frequenting a given area IC. As for organised get-togethers, they tend to lack a proper motivator for interaction if they're peaceful in nature. Personally I've found that conflict feeds RP better than anything else and unifies characters that are on the same side, all the while increasing interaction between groups. This is also why I've come to prefer playing an antagonist type in any given situation, or at the very least morally grey area.

  17. #37
    Look this is not a question of passerbys saying something stupid. And why it's even being talking about other then to "doomsay" is beyond me.
    What I was talking about, and the topic of discussion should be. Punishment for those that are clearly going out of there way to be jerks and harass people.
    And usually this kind of behavior is noticed after something is said to them, but they still continue on their path.

    Personally Red yeah I am offended by your comment about random grieferes, or just being upset cause someone isn't rping the way I want them too. To even insinuate I don't know the difference is offensive. I'm not new to this game.

    But lets go on some past examples.
    Once at a party a guy kept hugging on Tinkerbots. She ask him IC to stop a few times, he was told by players to stop both IC and OOC but wouldn't stop. And he was also making fun of RPers. Now granted I petitioned him and he was dealt with I believe, but really should people just allowed that to happen, as it's a part of the game?
    How about the time when a guy started to be sexually obscene at the table with a number of people, and asked to stop a few times and just wouldn't. Now was he just being his character so should have people dealt with it?

    Ya know I give up I know the retort is going to be some foolish comment about things going to far and people being punished for everything think; however, there are rules in game about behavior and they haven't gone too far yet.

    Whatever, the point was missed and taking to foolish extremes. What's being missed is in life their are consequences for actions. If you walk up to the giant pretending to be a human in the corner of the pup and throw a drink in his face, don't be shocked if you get hit.
    In the end you have people going out of there way to be jerks, people are asking them nicely to stop and they don't, and in the end nothing happens. That's what I'm talking about.

    And Tryqz you should be ashamed cause bar none that was the worst analogy ever. So let me ask? If a car was illegally parked should it be fined or towed? Hmmm
    I don't PvP becasue my rlpeen is big enough so I don't need to make up for it with my epeen.

    "Ahhhhh that was a good dinner. Now it's time to hit the playground and watch the little girls."

  18. #38
    There are unwritten but existent rules about proper conduct in any given RP situation. It's the one thing that keeps things flowing more or less smoothly when more people get involved and they are entirely possible to figure out just by following an RP exchange from afar. It's all about mutual respect and a want for everyone to have a good time, and if someone's out-of-line behavior disrupts that, they should not be having fun at the cost of everyone else.

    You argue that people harrassing others under the guise of IC action is as acceptable as RP that follows proper conduct and gives others room to react.. I call bull***t on that, honestly. Every RPer with any slightest bit of experience can distinguish between acceptable 'disruptive' IC roleplay (it exists, it really does) and flat-out harrassment with a clear OOC motivation to grief, and the scenarios you described definitely fall into the latter.
    Basically without exception, if there's need for others to send you OOC tells to stop doing something IC, you've already crossed the line by far. RPers are usually tolerant and respectful enough folk not to lash out OOCly without a VERY good reason.

    What you suggest may be perfectly run-of-the-mill IC behavior is most definitely harrassment and not RP with proper conduct, sorry. It's a very clear distinction.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by FoosballX View Post
    And Tryqz you should be ashamed cause bar none that was the worst analogy ever. So let me ask? If a car was illegally parked should it be fined or towed? Hmmm
    Well, my point was that ARK are being just as inconsiderate and thoughtless holding events in public places as the city council were when they decided to install PARKING METERS AND BAYS at the side of that road. Some of us don't want to drive past that sort of thing! You should have to park your car at home and walk into the city!


    It's just a stupid argument that RP shouldn't be held where players are - it's a service for everyone, and as such if you don't feel like using it, then ignore it. If you don't want to park in a particular parking space you don't get a brick and smash the windows of the car that *IS* parked there, do you?
    Trixie "Tryqz" Rhaiyne, Newland Council Science Minister

  20. #40
    Ugh. I'm not sure why I'm posting again. I've no idea why I'm being constantly misunderstood here.

    I am NOT saying that harassment is acceptable in ANY form. In fact, as someone who has been harassed in AO MORE through RP than in any other form of gameplay, I'm as strong an advocate as anyone you're likely to meet for the "harassment IC is still harassment" way of thinking.

    I am NOT saying that RPers should only do events in out-of-the-way places for fear of griefers. In fact I'm saying quite the opposite. RPers and ARK events should get out and involve as many people as they can imo.

    Here's the two things that I am saying:

    First:

    If griefing is the rule rather than the excepetion. This is likely because there is an issue with the event, not necessarily the people. I'm sure the majority of people actually would enjoy and participate better in a different style of event.

    So there is a choice here: Either harsher punishments can be devised so that the three people who were enjoying this event can enjoy it in peace and however many tens of people can be punished. OR (if you think that way sounds a little inefficient and catering to a minority) you can tailor events to the audience so that the majority of people enjoy it and griefing becomes the exception rather than the rule.

    Second:

    Yes, you can expect to get hit in a pub... you can expect Obama's secuirty if you drag your naughty bits over him... apart from the fact that it doesn't quite apply in the same way....

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbacrush View Post
    But the truth of the matter is that this is still the internets.
    This is not real life, this is a game on the internet. For a lot of people a lot of normal people with nothing wrong with them, normal real-life ettiquette goes out of the window. Do I think that's a good thing? Not at all (If you need any convincing of that, let's just say that I'm English), but it does happen. Not only that, but it happens EVERYWHERE.

    So when I say that it's difficult to tell the difference, you shouldn't be offended, Foos, because I'm saying that I don't see the difference.

    Me, I, personally don't see the difference between this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kotts View Post
    I've discovered if you are playing a male avatar, strip down completely naked to the skivies, and run up to them blowing kisses, nuzzling, hugging, and kneeling so your face is in their crotch. It gets them to leave very quickly, and is honestly pretty damn funny.
    , this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbacrush View Post
    Try this one on for size: Get a wolf form, and then stand behind someone you dont like, and hit X continuously. It looks like your doggie humping them. That makes PVP'rs REALLY mad.
    and what you described.

    If you think Kotts and Bubba should be punished for this is up to you.
    Advisor of Lumen Orien

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