Balance direction

[Gridpain]

Is this an impression or is FC taking the direction of "less solo action" ?

Tha both on PvP and PvM activities, and more exactly for "non TL7" part.

For PvM, removing heal from Mongo and more generaly target level locking HOTs will make life of soloer under TL6 quite a pain... (remember, heal delta doesnt do much before TL5)

For PvP, everyone will be affected by the HOT nerf, and it's not necessarily a "bad thing"... but planning all the rebalance on "you ll have to be in a team for PvM or PvP" is a dangerous bet, in my opinion, considering the population size in AO...

[bitnykk]

i see where you go but i disagree for several reasons :

1/ FC is going for "more team action" NOT "less solo action". this might look rhetorical but there's is a considerable difference. plus, i don't see where you see less solo options ; you might talk of a little HP reduction for 220 enfos but considering they had a bunch of useless HP while lower level enfos are taking new HP back this an improvement !

2/ "removing heal from Mongo" ? where did you see that ? only the HP part of mongo has been removed. read the documentation accurately http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=562460

3/ lock of Hots isn't as drastical you might say : e.g. H&Q will be now adressed to level 127+, wich makes not difference for TL5. also lower PVP was too dependant of OSBs and going "who got biggest alpha/AR wins" with almost no tactical aspect left except luck on Hot tick to be CHed on time, leaving noobstick traders masters of all (and some rare enfo setup barely able to counter). so daring such a change is far from stupid from FC and might give, e.g., doc/adv twinks a new interest on tl1-4.

4/ about "solo PVMers" that's true some of these changes mainly made for PVP balance might interfere with their ways of playing. okay but lemme be straight : this is a <MMO>. You can't limitate the changes for the benefit of only 1 kind of gameplay, and i got the feeling they succeeded in making good changes with acceptable compromises so far (but let's wait to see adv & trad to be 100% sure ^^).

5/ if they were going more "solo way" i'd be worrying the game is already dead. but the way the game is now going, to me, is an optimistic one ! i'd rather see them go for "more team action" because that bring the horizon of startup revamp + a campaign to launch new engine & see new players enjoying teaming aspects.

[Lliers]

The way I see it, "balance" specifically refers to PvP and evening out (read: nerfing) those areas of each profession that all the other professions have been griping about, and while they're at it, trying to sneak in something into each profession that each profession has been begging for.

I think by definition, the result will make life of a solo PvMer a bit more difficult and we'll all learn to cope with it.

[Gridpain]

oh, I ve misread the 2/ thx for clearing it up...

about the rest, like I said, I m not against the nerfing of HOTs in PvP, as everyone will be affected by the same nerf... but in low level PvM, removing decent HOTs (and ticking every 20 sec) is a kick in the teeth. I fear that a lot of people will use pockets even more often...

I m not asking for "more" stuff to allow soloing... just not removing the soloability from lowbies at all.

[Hvyshadows]

I think it's really hard to say at this point what the effect of the re-balancing effort will be on PvP until everything is finalized and we see what the changes are to all professions. My hope in this area is that the end result will be to extend the time of a PvP encounter (not to the point of doc vs doc, or advy vs advy, of course). By that I mean, reduce the ability of one prof to "alpha" another in 3 seconds and move on. To me, that's more about "I win" buttons rather than skill. The longer the PvP encounter, the more skill and timing is required to win. I fought a 217 enfo with my 217 enfo one on one in BS last night. The fight went on for a while, and in the end it was one of the most satisfying one on one victories I have ever had, because it gave me a chance to utilize all my tools, and have a little bit of luck.

As for PvM, it really seems like the ultimate goal is to reduce the power of the players in general. At TL7, this is a good thing. Let's face it, end game encounters in this game have become waaaay too easy. When a team of 4 (or less) can successfully reach and kill The Beast, there's something not quite right. When a crat + Keeper can take on almost everything that the game has to offer, that's not quite right as well. I think the PvM side will become even more clear when we see what changes they make to the Crat nanos.

[Phargus]

Pocketing is a game mechanics issue, not a question of character pvm viability. Remember most of the content up to tl5+ is designed 5+ years ago when chars were much less powerful than today. Making chars somewhat closer to their originally intended strenght vs pvm content is a good thing in my book.

[Genie]

To be honest, I have always considdered PvM to be way to easy. Making PvM slightly more challenging is a good thing. I usually dont bother with PvM because it is so mind numbingly booring.

This might very well have the opposite effect, that people will appriciate PvM more. At present, you dont really feel much accomplishment for taking out a mob that everyone can solo.

[Autohead]

When a team of 4 (or less) can successfully reach and kill The Beast, there's something not quite right.

Actually, I think that's perfectly acceptable considering the age of the content. If the "power" of our characters didn't increase as time went on and new expansions came out, the game would have died long ago. Without progression, there really isn't much of a reason to keep playing (example being a few people I know that literally had "everything" and quit because there was nothing more to do).

[Gridpain]

Pocketing is a game mechanics issue, not a question of character pvm viability. Remember most of the content up to tl5+ is designed 5+ years ago when chars were much less powerful than today. Making chars somewhat closer to their originally intended strenght vs pvm content is a good thing in my book.

Yet a lot of people already find that low level pvm is too slow and use pocket / kiting.

Reducing the PvMability at low level wont help a lot in that aspect.

[bitnykk]

making PvM slightly more challenging is a good thing

yap and the two main ways in that are reduce tank HPs and normalize crat init debuffs (as Hvy said upper in post). i hope they will balance this well without nerfing crats that already lost stuns few times ago. i think making bosses more nanoresistant while increasing *a little* the NR check on malaise/depression might do the trick without nerfing PVP crats too bad.

Reducing the PvMability at low level wont help a lot in that aspect

i'm not always searching for hot/rs to go subway/totw nor nascence/ely. also a lot of people do medsuit PL until 160 so they care much having big hot or not.
but it's true for some it's gonna be more challenging -or "little harder to play" if you want mean it. i'm not sure it's gonna affect noobies as they prolly ignore all of OSBs until a certain experience of the game.
as said, we need to wait the implementation to check these changes and their effects on PVP/PVM.

[Hvyshadows]

Actually, I think that's perfectly acceptable considering the age of the content. If the "power" of our characters didn't increase as time went on and new expansions came out, the game would have died long ago. Without progression, there really isn't much of a reason to keep playing (example being a few people I know that literally had "everything" and quit because there was nothing more to do).

That's definitely true. The problem is, either the game mechanics or the imagination of the developers do not allow for instances that are truly challenging at the end game level. The answer is usually to give the boss a boatload of HP in the hopes that it can survive long enough to let whatever other tricks they can come up with a chance to actually challenge the players. The Collector is a perfect example of this. There's actually a lot of really cool things in this instance, knock back, healing towers, buffing mobs/debuffing mobs, etc. But it can still be done with a 4 man team, even with The Collector's ridiculous HD. Vortexx and Mitaar are easily done by a two man team. 12 Man can be done with 4 (probably less).

While progression is a necssary part of the game, and the longer it's around, the more powerful the end game toons should become, if toons become so powerful that they can no longer design content that is truly challenging, then something needs to be nerfed.

[Loucretia]

I dont think FC's specific intention is to discourage solo action per se in terms of PvM. That would be a very foolish road to go down unless they were able to guarantee a very large influx of players.

However, a side effect of the balancing they are doing may well be to make solo PvM a little harder. I am talking strictly about Low level PvM here, sub 200.

It is not an approach I am particularly pleased about, as I believe PvP is still very much a minority activity regardless of the impression forums might tend to give. As such, I think it is wrong to impact PvM in any negative fashion purely for the benefit of PvP.

As for this being an MMO, lets remember it currently has quite a low population compared to others. Teaming is still by far the fastest way to progress in AO, IF there are any teams, but soloing is often the only option.

I made a new alt a little while ago. Its now about 110, and so far has been in a single team.... of 2. Yesterday when i was online there was 1 toon on lft in range and that was level 88. The chances for some teaming will improve with levels, but below this level there are very few opportunities and mostly soloing is the only way much of the time.

A lot of people talk about "PvM being too easy". At lower levels this is nonsense, as there are always plenty of things willing and able to kick your @ss. At end levels, for most people there are still things that are hard to do, as long as you dont take a zerg with you, but of course things get easier over time as toons get stronger.

In Most MMOs expansions provide the next level of challenge. That seems unlikely in AO at any point in the next 2 years, if ever.
However, in the absence of an expansion, merely nerfing everyone is a REALLY bad idea. You dont spend years on toons to suddenly have them made worse overnight - and consoling people with the idea that they now have more of a challenge wont wash with many. It will probably be the last communication you have with them as the door closes behind them.

Overall, I am not convinced this rebalancing is a great idea, it is certainly quite a big risk. In particular, it appears to be a massive effort for a minority interest, and when completed may well end up pleasing a few and upsetting the many.

This is not intended as a criticism of the Developers, as I think the current ones are the best we have had, I am just not sure that this is a wise exercise.

[drops]

In Most MMOs expansions provide the next level of challenge. That seems unlikely in AO at any point in the next 2 years, if ever.
However, in the absence of an expansion, merely nerfing everyone is a REALLY bad idea. You dont spend years on toons to suddenly have them made worse overnight - and consoling people with the idea that they now have more of a challenge wont wash with many. It will probably be the last communication you have with them as the door closes behind them.

Overall, I am not convinced this rebalancing is a great idea, it is certainly quite a big risk. In particular, it appears to be a massive effort for a minority interest, and when completed may well end up pleasing a few and upsetting the many.

This.

[Autohead]

This.

This x2.

[Ceenah2]

4 hours of DrHnQ. Yay I dont need a doc kiting borg @ lvl 127 anymore :> Me welcome this, going to lvl up fixer

[crude4gone]

Changing "good solo skills" to go from being about getting as much NCU as you can, to cram in as many OSBs as you can, to actually learn to survive on your own sounds like a good way to make the general playerbase better players.

And so what if you cant have HnQ. Just means that instead of only attacking those dark red mobs, you may have to go after some nearer your own level.

And yes, I know this could mean it will take longer to get to 220. So what? I still claim the point of the game is to play it, not to "beat" it.

[Moonbolt]

Well i guess there is 2 different reasons to lvl toons.

1. To play them all the way to endgame, in wich case this is a good change that will actually help players team more and learn to play their characters better.

2. To lvl a toon for a special purpose, like for example making a S10 twink or a PvP twink at a certain lvl.

In the second case when im lvln i usually just try to get it to the desired lvl as fast as possible to get it ready for twinking.
In the first case i play the toon cause i enjoy playing the toon / doin stuff with it and then i think those changes are good instead of go afk for 3 hours at ely hecklers or just having a soldier/fixer run after me with HnQ and Gazump.