Before you reply, see here: http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...=580133&page=5Originally Posted by Moonbolt
Made that post after the one in this thread. Think I've finally figured out what you're trying to say.
Before you reply, see here: http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...=580133&page=5
Made that post after the one in this thread. Think I've finally figured out what you're trying to say.
Atleast try to make it sound convincing, mate. It's still instant with a that 10 seoncd lockout, it's just not instant -and- spammable. You also failed analogy 101. Being kited is not the same as being rooted. Surely you've been around long enough by now to know there's quite a few things that are hard to do when running around, and even more being added, e.g. AS cast times.
You're just giving more food to the enforcers who actually don't know any better, and thus keeping teh drammaz alive. Well done, sire! Klod and Chrys salute you as well!
Oh please.
I realise we don't know eachother, but my main-playing class really has very little say in what I was trying to put out.
There's nothing wrong with expressing how you think some approach isn't the best, but come on, don't keep bolstering your arguments with "how it is now combined with how the documents say it's going to be".
Comparison just doesn't hold merit until you have a glance at the big picture. Who says you won't be killing a doc without a big alpha after they get their adjustement? Who says evades won't get a change to something that removes the "perk it or don't touch it" mechanic? It's still unknown at this point. It's an overhaul in progress. Big changes and whatnot.
Let them show all of their cards first, that's basicly all I wanted to say.
Last edited by Sethic; Aug 24th, 2010 at 20:38:34.
->Sethic 220/30!/70 - Equip - Tetnman - Proud President of TETN / Hunter of Gridmonkeys - Atlantean
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-> Some alts not worth mentioning
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Server first to say "GUUUHUHUHUHN" out loud.
the problem is that we know how enforcers work.
and with the changes enforcers are getting we know what wont work.
they cant nerf healing enough for it to work in the future.
they cant nerf evades enough for it to work in the future.
they wont change fundamental game mechanics for enforcers to work in the future if we do not get some other means of killing our opponents.
enforcers rely 100% on a hard, fast alpha with stuns to kill people.
that alpha is getting slowed down and decreased in dmg and more or less removal of all stuns since they basically gonna have same duration as the next attack perk incomming.
that will break enforcers as a pvp class.
people doesnt understand this cause they dont understand how enforcers work.
enforcers needs some other way of killing their opponents then being alpha reliable if those changes that been shown to us is goin to have a chance to work.
as an example a hard hitting wepon that does around 4 - 5k pvp dmg with regulars.
the problem then is that a wepon like that combined with the alpha we will retain is goin to be the exact same thing cause when we throw in those perks extra there its just goin to be another alpha kill.
i seriusly cant see how FC is goin to or should fix enforcers.
on 1 hand they can give us an hard hitting weopn that will hit hard enough to actually outdmg heals so that the target doesnt become fully healed between swings.
the problem with giving enfs such a hard hitting wepon tho is that in PvM enforcers would become a so much better dmg dealer, and its actually only a fix at the lvl range where that said wepon can be used.
they can add in longer stuns and more stuns so that enforcers chain stun or initdebuff our target enough so that they dont get off enough heals to outheal our dmg.
the problem with that tho is that noone likes to loose control of their character.
the third option is to increase enforcers survivability and abiity to keep the target in 1 place long enough that it actually lets the target run out of nano and then start wearing down on their HP.
the fourht option is to leave it as it has been posted in the balance documentation.
the problem then is that there will be no enforcers left in this game except for a few random sadomasochistic pvmers.
Moonbolt - 220/26/something. Trox Enf RK1 General of Hells Heroes.
Renswind - 220/21/67 solitus trader.
Moonkiss - 219/21/something opifex shade.
Mooncloud - 150/18/somethin solitus MA.
I think you should share with us your insight into every single change that is coming up with the balance patch. It's not fair that you can already conclude so decisively how Enforcers will perform in the future, while the rest of us are stuck waiting for something more than fixer/ma/enf/keeper nano changes.
u realy never have anything of substance to add to threads crattey.
the problem doesnt lie with other professions changes.
the problem in the future lies with how enfs works and it is related to how enforcers works atm.
if u cant see that its ur problem not mine.
i have explained over and over and over again what makes enforcers work in pvp and why they wont work in the future, and frankly im tired of ignorant fools that thinks they have such a good understanding of the game and the profession i have played as main for 7 years.
enforcers are competitive in pvp atm only cause we have aq strong alpha.
nerfing of that alpha will break enforcers since we have no way of wearing an enemy down over time with high sustained dmg.
if FC doesnt plan on giving enfs high sustained dmg like for instance agents, soldiers, MAs, shades etc in pvp the changes to the enforcer alpha will break the profession.
if u cant see that its ur own ignorance that is the fault.
Moonbolt - 220/26/something. Trox Enf RK1 General of Hells Heroes.
Renswind - 220/21/67 solitus trader.
Moonkiss - 219/21/something opifex shade.
Mooncloud - 150/18/somethin solitus MA.
Code:Moonbolt's Nerfbat. Its gifts come in excess, way beyond anyone ever could ever comprehend. (Especially for those who don't understand the enforcer profession). [NODROP][QL 300] Patch 18.4 Equip time 0.5s Attack time 1s Recharge time 1s Range 20 m Damage 8000-10000 (10000) - Baloney AC Attack rating cap 4000 Defense skills Evade close 50 % Attack skills 2h Blunt 100 % Requirements To Equip User 2h Blunt >= 2000 and User Sneak attack >= 1000 and User Fast attack >= 1000 and User Dimach >= 551 Effects On Equip User Modify Max health 1000 User Modify Offense modifier 100 User Modify Intelligence modifier -1000
Ancestors could hear what is happening now
They would turn in their graves
they would all be ashamed - that the land of the free
has been written in chains
And I know what I want - when the timing is right
then I'll take what is mine
I am the clansman
That would be becuase 90% of the threads in here are QQfests.
[QUOTE=Moonbolt;5846253]enforcers are competitive in pvp atm only cause we have aq strong alpha.
nerfing of that alpha will break enforcers since we have no way of wearing an enemy down over time with high sustained dmg./QUOTE]
Works fine on me, e.g. crats.
Enforcers aren't the only profession that won't be able to instagank people. Once AS is nerfed, some profession will hardly have anything resembling an alpha left.
And not every profession has advy/doc heals capable of outhealing a slower perk alpha. Stop pretending everyone can outheal it.
It's the old AO forum one-trick pony at it's best. Take your profession's weakest aspect and pair it off against another profession's most powerful aspect, then pretend that's how every engagement against every profession plays out.
The 'broken' aspect in today's PvP is the way how enforcers can run in, instasplat someone and run out unscathed. That's hopefully getting fixed. Problem solved. And the world is a better place.
Before you start trying to get Enforcers fixed in general based on some "7 years" of experience, why don't you atleast twink yours to it's maximum capacity? No offence, but you're not even anywhere near the top enfs on RK1 and therefore I think the only explanation for your crazy suggestions is based on your slanted perception of the profession.
i gotta say i'm having good time drinking fine french wine while reading this
ok im goin to try and make an example to clarify some stuff.
if an enforcer isnt able to alpha a doctor anylonger the fight could look something like this.
the enforcer say hes the same setup as i am atm.
first of all u have 40 refular swings for about 700-1k each in pvp
then u have brawl about 8 swings during a minute for an average of 700 in pvp.
and another 8 Fast attacks or so for another 700 - 1k
above that u have perks.
1hb perks are as following after changes.
quick bash - 1123 - 2363
crush bone - 2821 - 5937
bring the pain - 1315 -3641
devastating blow - 2288..- 4817
1he perks are
quick cut - 538 -2198
Flay - 1598 - 4166
flurry of cuts - 3111 - 6977
ribbon flesh - 3436 - 7580
and alium perk points are folowing.
body tackle - 2500 - 3000
and since we havnt gotten the new documents on the general AI perks yet ill use old values from CoNC and ColI
bore - 890 - 950 5 hits, 5s delay
crave - 2800 - 3840
Bot confinement -1900 - 2100
Nano Feast - 2900 - 3700
note that those values i posted on perks is before AC reduction, reflects and pvp modifier.
add to that 1 SA every 40 seconds for about 4 k on average in pvp.
im not gonna bother to write down every math step for the different perks when i account for the pvp reduction so u either gonna have to trust me on it or double check ityourself.
ive calced the middle value of the perk dmg and removed 200 dmg for ACs.
i got that to 41932 perk dmg.
devide that in 2 for pvp reduction and u get 20966 dmg.
add 40 swings for 850 each and u get 34000.
add brawl and fast attack for 800 x 8 each and u get 12800
add SA for 4000
combine it all and u get 71766 dmg during min.
add 10000 dmg to the formula since some of the perks are on a 50 sec recharge and u get 82k dmg during 1 minute.
for an enf to actually wear down a healing profession over time that healing professio needs to heal for less then 80k / min.
observe tho that this is when every perk lands and every regular hits and no reflects.
since we havnt seen the doctor nano changes yet ill just use BI as standard.
Bodily Invigoration heals for 8017 .. 9317 dmg on a 4 second recharge.
thats 8667 on average.
they will make 15 heals during 1 minute wich adds up to 130005 dmg healed every minute.
that is w/o healdelta, HoTs, ICH, Healing efficiency etc.
there is no way FC can halv the healing from docs w/o destroying the class in PvP and destroying PvM completly of AO so thats a no go.
the other way is to outlast the doctor in form waiting out his nano pool to go poof.
same thing goes there.
theres no way FC can nerf the nano cost of docs heals so much that the nanopool will go poof while an enf is beating on him.
conclusion there is no way an enf is goin to be able to kill a doc after balance.
the same basically goes for advs, agents, MAs, MPs or any other class that can heal for that matter.
that is how i have figured out that nerfing enforcers alpha is goin to destroy the class if we dont get any other way of killing our opponents.
Moonbolt - 220/26/something. Trox Enf RK1 General of Hells Heroes.
Renswind - 220/21/67 solitus trader.
Moonkiss - 219/21/something opifex shade.
Mooncloud - 150/18/somethin solitus MA.
lol and who the hell are u?
Moonbolt - 220/26/something. Trox Enf RK1 General of Hells Heroes.
Renswind - 220/21/67 solitus trader.
Moonkiss - 219/21/something opifex shade.
Mooncloud - 150/18/somethin solitus MA.
Amen.
Do you ever bother reading replies to questions you ask?
yes i do... i was typing all that up while u were posting that reply so i had already written most of it when u posted and didnt see ur post untill after i was done with my post.
ive already said at several locations on those forums that crats are the only profession able to get brought down by regulars so dont worry i know that crats are vulnerable to regulars.
but u still dont get my point that its a hughe ****ing nerf to the enforcer profession that has relied on its strong alpha to be competitive in pvp at all.
that was just one way enfs are gettign nerfed atm i made an example of anyhow.
there is nothing in this rebalance to justify those heavy nerfs to enfs.
Moonbolt - 220/26/something. Trox Enf RK1 General of Hells Heroes.
Renswind - 220/21/67 solitus trader.
Moonkiss - 219/21/something opifex shade.
Mooncloud - 150/18/somethin solitus MA.
I'm expecting some changes in weaponry for my profession. I would also expect similar changes for Enforcers.
I can do everything on any toon while running. 0 damage is 0 damage. Being rooted as melee is the same as being kited - You can do nothing to your opponent.
Thats the thing. Vs an equally equipped character enforcers cannot instasplat someone. Infact I'd wager they can't instasplat anyone. And if forced to stay in combat, after they fail to instasplat someone, they have no other damage, no other way to win, nothing that the enforcer can do
The whole Enf toolset is one big insta-splat button, which wont work on good players of equal gear and skill level.
I'm all for reworking the class, but thats what has to happen. People also should expect enforcers to be viable against MORE opponents than they currently are, if they turn into huge mega regular hitting behemoths this has to be effective vs a higher percentage of GOOD players than the current run and gank setup, which is terribly ineffective vs an equal player as is.
Don't be lonely anymore.
Look at your post, now back at mine. Now back to your post, now back at mine. Sadly, yours isn't mine, but if you stopped trolling and started posting legitimate comments it could look like mine. Look down, back up, where are you? You're scrolling through posts, reading the posts your posts could look like. Back at mine, it's a reply saying something you want to hear. Look again, my reply is now diamonds. Anything is possible when you think before you post.
I should have clarified. I'm talking about the Enforcer profession in the game Anarchy Online. Pretty sure you're not.
No offence man, just having a bit of fun quoting you from another post...
I would also suggest you to chill for now since, technically, presenting and implementing all nano/perk/proc/other changes won't happen until late March next year.
Last edited by mocs; Aug 25th, 2010 at 11:39:08.
Not quite as simple, fixers also relied on NR checking perks using AAD (which every fixer has loads of) to protect themselves from offensive perks from MPs and NTs. This won't be the case after the rebalancing, so they'll be more vulnerable to perking from professions that use perk attacks that check NR instead of straight evades.
I don't find advies to be all godlike, I've already chewed on a few even before rebalancing and their lack of NR+AAD means they're pretty much Starfall bait, between that and Beneficial Scourge adventurers are going to have a pretty tough time against me.
As for me vs enforcers: There are enforcers who can kill me, and there are enforcers who can't, and on the whole it's about a 50-50 shot depending on their setup/skill against my setup/skill, though almost every single fight is a long, drawn out grind fest because I'm a pretty specifically set up shield MP. Good enforcers can work within the parameters of a long drawn out fight like going up against me, not so good ones have the unfortunate luck of slowly and inexorably losing the fight unless they run.
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