New Enforcer Nano Changes

[fortorn]

Ok perhaps I do not then. I thought this was the place where we fight for change for US. Other profs fight for there toolset. Funcom gets to choose what is and isn't.

[Obtena]

OK then how about some dmg then that doesn't have a 1 minute recharge. We want balance ehe then why not balance damage across the board.

Don't hear a lot of people taking about that? Faster perk recharges OR an additional high dmg special.

What you mean like how challenger is on a lower cooldown and allows you to taunt while tanking in PVM? OK done.

[Obtena]

Ok perhaps I do not then. I thought this was the place where we fight for change for US. Other profs fight for there toolset. Funcom gets to choose what is and isn't.

So you want to fight for changes for enfos by comparing and asking for nerfs to other professions like soldiers? Um, OK, no. I'm not trying to be difficult but there is alot of inconsistencies with how people think things 'should' work. That's one of them.

[fortorn]

I want to fight for enfo toolset being best tank in raid situations. They GAVE better taunt and reflects to soldiers and took our some of our taunt and layer spamming away.

[Obtena]

I want to fight for enfo toolset being best tank in raid situations. They GAVE better taunt and reflects to soldiers and took our some of our taunt and layer spamming away.

Really? because the amount of layers you can get per second with the highest single layer actually increased IIRC, as well as the emergency team layers working in different lines for more additional layer strength. I don't think it's realistic to say they gave soldiers better reflects. They are just different now.

[Berinda]

Soldier reflects work markedly different now - we have slightly higher constant reflects in exchange for TMS/AMS getting a nerf. The change at the top levels is fair, the change at the lowest levels is helpful, and the change at TL4-TL6 needs to more work. That is neither here nor there for this discussion.

The reason many people think - I included - that soldiers will become the premier tanks in the rebalancing is that the old soldier taunts simply didn't work well, while the new ones are great. Coupled with that, we do massive amounts of damage, so it's worthwhile to have soldiers along regardless of who is tanking.

The problem is enforcers do not have a secondary role that has as much utility as solder damage. The answer isn't to take away a soldier's damage; the answer is to give enforcers a point other than standing around and being made of meat. Constant casting also doesn't fit their theme; it has nothing to do with nanocosts.

[Dragocze]

Reflects changes are nice, they finally fix stacking issue (aura - 28 vs buff - 29). Also no more spending into BM for Soldiers. You guys have done good job.

I feel about Enf changes like we are stuck in nowhere. There is good discussion about Enf role in team. But there are other things, like constant casting and spending into 5 nano skills, which aren't addressed.

With rebalance there is good opportunity to change things to better. I can't help myself, but I feel like, we are missing it.

Edit:
Why "Hellish Rage" (best one) cost 0 NCU and other nanos in the line cost up to 43 NCU (Infernal Rage)? It seems to be typo.

[Biancha]

I feel about Enf changes like we are stuck in nowhere.

I don't really follow the logic of many of the changes either, I'm trying to remain optimistic though.

[Kopecz]

I dont want to have to have comm relays, alb huds and caster gear on just to meet the bear minimum requirements on my nanos.

You actually need that stuff to cast nanos? Serious question here.

I want it to become a brute force on battlefield that relies heavily on perks and specials to effect its role, not nanos.

The profession you're looking for is Kippur

The reason many people think - I included - that soldiers will become the premier tanks in the rebalancing is that the old soldier taunts simply didn't work well, while the new ones are great. Coupled with that, we do massive amounts of damage, so it's worthwhile to have soldiers along regardless of who is tanking.

How about throwing Mongo a bone then? Change the aoe line similar to the Soldier taunt DoT. Just make Mongo taunt for the full value on a 2 second tick like the HoT. Reduces casting and nano usage and would give an essentially static amount of taunt for Enforcers to maintain while more actively controlling aggro with single taunts, perks and items.

[Berinda]

How about throwing Mongo a bone then? Change the aoe line similar to the Soldier taunt DoT. Just make Mongo taunt for the full value on a 2 second tick like the HoT. Reduces casting and nano usage and would give an essentially static amount of taunt for Enforcers to maintain while more actively controlling aggro with single taunts, perks and items.

That idea sounds okay to me, but I don't have a very firm knowledge of how to play an enforcer because I don't have one.

I think it's a good idea to have multiple professions equally effective at tanking. What I don't think is a good idea is make it so the only thing a prof can do is tank, eliminating the need for it if its not tanking, and it seems to be the road enforcers are going down.

[Gatester]

We need nanos that make us unique tanks, not just AOE taunt that makes us a choice for zerg raids and nothing else. We should have unique abilities against single targets over long periods of time just like any tank and it should be those reasons that help us get chosen for teams.

We should have nanos that are sensible for an enforcer who is not in a team or raid. Why is our main source of healing attached to an AOE taunt? Why are the nanocosts so high that a non-endgame enforcer is penalized because of what an entirely raid devoted endgame tank can do? An enforcer who is alone and is leveling will not be in a position to cast their vital absorbs and mongo more than a few times.

We should make body dev, max health, reflects, evades, crit decrease, AC's, strength, stamina, weaponskills, and heal delta an enforcer's most important skills. No new or leveling enforcer should fail because he rolled an atrox and maxed out skills that made sense before maxing out the skill set used by support professions. Twinking other aspects should make an enforcer better without being a manditory part of performance in any and all situations.

We should have damage mitigation tools that actually work. Enforcers take more damage than any profession except doctors against mobs they cannot init debuff. This is a clear sign of our dependance of other professions to keep us alive, but also the weakness of a tanking profession's damage mitigation. Large amounts of health look impressive, even if we are taking a 19000 max health hit to our total max health, but in a sensible game it only makes us dependant on heals that can cover that extensive amount. Tanks either evade damage, physically mitigate it, or have high levels of regeneration to outheal it and enforcers fail compared to any other viable tank. The only thing that makes enforcers a good choice now is that we are the only profession with enough health to properly utilize a doctors Improved Complete healing, and if that goes then what is the purpose of having a tank that is harder to heal than any alternative?

We need weapons that hit hard and we should be hitting as hard as everyone else. I could care less if I can mongo in your raid, that is no reason for my damage being terrible. Especially when I am traveling alone and with no one else, how does my ability to kill things at a reasonable pace effect anyone else? If all FC can offer us is a couple hundred points of damage add on our nanos then they need to look at the numbers again, because we are a few thousand points of damage add behind matching the damage of profs like soldiers or keepers in standard gear alone.

We need to be able to hold aggro against anyone. Losing aggro should be because an enforcer was careless or not utilizing his toolset, not because he simply lacks the means to hold damage anymore. Enforcers are already having difficulty holding aggro from DD professions who rely on tanks to keep us alive. I ended up tanking at beast on my shade several times, dieing several times, because my tank could not keep aggro off me. Perhaps if he was a perfect tank he wouldn't have been running out of nano or had all taunting perks and taunting tools in game just to barely keep me from stealing aggro, but unfortunately he was a standard tank which I think is more appropriate to balance a game around.

We need to be able to constantly move without stopping to cast every few seconds. We are a melee infantry profession who is forced to cast nanos to survive. It is already terrible enough that FC does not want us faster than our opponents but will likely give us a 2 minute lock-out situational tool to have 10 seconds of melee contact with an opponent and call it our ranged solution. Forcing us to stop and cast while others are intent on kiting us is not fair and it is not balanced.



These are some of the things that would make the enforcer profession, if anything, at least make sense to me. Enforcer is not the only profession I play, and in fact I play it less than anything in my signature as well as several alts that I have yet to add, so when I ask for these things it is not a player looking to boost "his" profession to be OP but to put it at a level I and hopefully others would actually enjoy. The current documentation released by FC reflects NOTHING that makes sense to me as an enforcer but I see plenty of things greedy and whiny players who care nothing about the profession would beg for to make enforcers an even weaker threat to them.

If FC has a plan for enforcers then none of us see anything but make us unattractive and undesireable as a profession. The only thing we really want is for someone to let us know what the good things in our future are and no one is telling us anything but "this is how you will be nerfed, get ready to IP Nano Pool." Why is it so hard to find out what will happen to my enforcer when I seem to have a general idea of how every other profession is going to be changed?


The short version: If you want us to chill out then give us some damned good news. How much of a beating do you think people will take before they get tired of the wait-and-see approach especially when the only things you give us make even less sense after you nerf us?

[lainbr]

I feel about Enf changes like we are stuck in nowhere. There is good discussion about Enf role in team. But there are other things, like constant casting and spending into 5 nano skills, which aren't addressed.

This and the massive improvement on NCU is the true problems in current docs, not the damn NaCost or the 1.6k MM requirement in some nanos. I'm pretty sure I'll get this "massive" ammount of Nanoskill w/o CoNC and atm with a 212 gimp I never run out of nano.

Are you all blind to dont see the 150ish NCU on Challenger?

[fortorn]

Soldier reflects work markedly different now - we have slightly higher constant reflects in exchange for TMS/AMS getting a nerf. The change at the top levels is fair, the change at the lowest levels is helpful, and the change at TL4-TL6 needs to more work. That is neither here nor there for this discussion.

The reason many people think - I included - that soldiers will become the premier tanks in the rebalancing is that the old soldier taunts simply didn't work well, while the new ones are great. Coupled with that, we do massive amounts of damage, so it's worthwhile to have soldiers along regardless of who is tanking.

The problem is enforcers do not have a secondary role that has as much utility as solder damage. The answer isn't to take away a soldier's damage; the answer is to give enforcers a point other than standing around and being made of meat. Constant casting also doesn't fit their theme; it has nothing to do with nanocosts.

Why is the soldier professional making and supporting valid points for the enforcers?

I don't disagree with any point made here. Why are the concepts stated above so hard ot understand.

Edit: I am glad a professional gets it. And I didn't mean to sound like other professionals shouldn't chime in. I'm glad for the input.

[fortorn]

You actually need that stuff to cast nanos? Serious question here.


The profession you're looking for is Kippur



How about throwing Mongo a bone then? Change the aoe line similar to the Soldier taunt DoT. Just make Mongo taunt for the full value on a 2 second tick like the HoT. Reduces casting and nano usage and would give an essentially static amount of taunt for Enforcers to maintain while more actively controlling aggro with single taunts, perks and items.

As per your question... not always. However as a trox enforcer until you reach full endgame symbs and equipment you really do need to specialize in nanoskills to cast top end game nanos.

The difference is this. You cannot hold agg on beast with mongo crush or malice. You need imalice and imongo otherwise improved shade soldier and crat toolsets will steal your agg.

[fortorn]

The short version: If you want us to chill out then give us some damned good news. How much of a beating do you think people will take before they get tired of the wait-and-see approach especially when the only things you give us make even less sense after you nerf us?

Well here is a fair and balanced solution. Boycott.

If soldiers, shades and keepers want to be better tanks then they better start now. They already nose in on every other raid why not these. Truly test your metal.

Enough is enough. We have enforcers here that welcome these changes saying they are not that bad, but are in fact good, WHICH ARE BOLD-FACED LIES and they have to know it (how could they not).

Why? Because they acquiesce defeat and pray it won't get worse.

[Berinda]

Why is the soldier professional making and supporting valid points for the enforcers?

We're in the middle of making the game balanced. That doesn't mean I'm out to overpower my profession - the point of balance is to make the game fair for everyone.

Plus, as someone with a 220 doctor, I back up enforcers a lot so I have as good an understanding of them as I can get without actually playing one.

[Otinsainpas]

The difference is this. You cannot hold agg on beast with mongo crush or malice. You need imalice and imongo otherwise improved shade soldier and crat toolsets will steal your agg.

this is BS. org-enfo tanked everything perfectly without imalice while shade being.. well.. Me.

you scrub-enfos should learn how to tank properly

[Larafina]

sure you can do nothing else then spaming low taunts and perk taunt sh... and stuff your ncu with tauntprocs and do less dam have less nr and use taunt procs, dont use layers ... just to realize that a soli could doing dam and having a easier time tanking, surviving and taunting.

[Gatester]

this is BS. org-enfo tanked everything perfectly without imalice while shade being.. well.. Me.

you scrub-enfos should learn how to tank properly

He said we can't hold aggro with the 10k taunts, which is true. Enforcers cannot keep agg away from my shade unless they are spamming their improved taunts, which means without infiinite nano they lose agg as well.

[Obtena]

I'm not sure I believe that if you are running your taunt proc, etc... Anyways, any shade that just keeps piling on the damage while holding aggro they can't handle is rather stupid to begin with. Deserves to die. No one can ignore the limitations of other professions they team with, whether it's healing capacity, aggro holding or damage dealing.