New Enforcer Nano Changes

[Moonbolt]

ermm huminus u do realise we have taunting tools, taunting perks, and dmg aswell right?
enforcer will be holding agro on their attacked target.. this will force nubs to assist wich is good cause it always pisses me off majourly when people arnt assisting and breaking calms etc cause they wanna polish the DD epeen with turtlewax to make it realy nice and shiny.
as long as people are assisting the enforcer there will be no agro flickers.
only thing i can see being a problem with this tho is heal agro in big groups of mobs but i hope that FC is reducing agro from heals apropriate to the taunting on mongo.

Nanopool is goin to be a compeltly different story for a trox enf tho.
wich is goin to completly suck.

[Skyelord]

Of course we have a lot of taunt tools Moonbolt. Most of them are useless or unnecessary right now. And I really like the idear of working for aggro. But I see the problem that one mistake will be a dead raid member. No life line (or only one every 7min in the end game range).

If the Enfo has to tank every mop first for a couple of seconds and every body has to assist, than perhaps it would be better to use a soldier or shade as tank? At least they have the benefit of doing real damage next to taunt.
The enfo could only controll the small adds until the real warriors have time to get rid of them.

Simply don´t like the idear of being outclassed as tank by some other proffesion.

[Manicmouse]

Many profs already tank single targets better than or at least equal to enfs. Enfs pulling incoming adds away from squishy support profs will still be their most important role imo.

Doesn't seem like much will change apart from people needing to pay more attention with assisting.

[capncaveman]

I don´t like the reduced taunt on mongo. Mongo is what an enfo makes an enfo.

One Aimed shot gone wrong, one full auto gone wrong, one perk gone wrong, one area nuke gone wrong, one whatever gone wrong, and the enfo has basicly no chance to get aggro back.
Not every enfo is end-equiped and not every damage dealer a 100% professional. Mistakes happen. And enfos are a life line to compensate for this mistakes.

seriously agg tools should be increased, not decreased.

how many times have You done.... oooh lets say beast. and as the enf is running up to beast(-1500 rs since rage wont have rs anymore and this will be worse walking through pande on a raid because thats as fast as the enf can go,.. SWEET!!), everyone in the raid alphas it before the tank is half way to the mob and not in mongo range yet.
and lets say the nt rocks it for 100+k pvm damage b4 the tank even starts to mongo.

bad idea, make the tanks, the actual tank and not turn them into the "new" keeper with team auras or just give me mongo decrush so I can see the nt and half the raid splat, then I can laugh at the nerf's
lame

[Kopecz]

how many times have You done.... oooh lets say beast. and as the enf is running up to beast(-1500 rs since rage wont have rs anymore and this will be worse walking through pande on a raid because thats as fast as the enf can go,.. SWEET!!), everyone in the raid alphas it before the tank is half way to the mob and not in mongo range yet.
and lets say the nt rocks it for 100+k pvm damage b4 the tank even starts to mongo.

L2read the docs. SL essences are losing the -RS so this is irrelevant.

[capncaveman]

its about agg not rs troll,
how many times? is a question referring to past tense, obviously not unreleased content
less paraphrasing more l2comprehend

[Kopecz]

its about agg not rs troll,
how many times? is a question referring to past tense, obviously not unreleased content
less paraphrasing more l2comprehend

wtf are you saying? your argument was that enfs wouldn't be able to get agg because they couldn't get into mongo range b/c rage no longer had a RS buff ... or that you just teamed with retards that alpha too early (and i find it implausible that a whole team would ever do that btw).

Regardless of how taunting will or will not work in the future THAT argument is moot because RS with SL essence won't be an issue so you WILL be in range to use mongo/malice/taunting tools/dd

If you wanna make another attempt at explaining why enfs need more taunting be my guest but that wasn't a good reason at all.

P.S. I do think the 2nd nerf to mongo was way out of line, but has to do with the taunting amount, not my ability to get in range to use it.

[Skyelord]

I think that Capncaveman discripes the mistake of the raid force to alpha beast before the tank is in range. When the tank is finally in range he is 100k behind in taunt and now will need perhaps 15sek to compensate for that (including singel taunt, taunt procs and taunt tools).

With nerved HP for every one, reduced heal (still speculating) and perhaps repaired evades and add all def, thats a quit deadly combination.
Having an enforcer in you team sould at least give you a better chance, I don´t see anymore. Exept for emergency absorg... at least for the team, not for the raid.

However every thing depends how heals, specials and over all damage is changed. I hope Kintaii know our concerns now and can include them into the bigger picture.

While knowing the enfo changes I really really really like to see the doc changes now. Enfo and Docs are the baseline for a raid. Who cares about crats?

[Manicmouse]

Only people who can tank Beast until the enf gets aggro seem to attack early. If someone squishy attacks early they deserve to die ^^

[erozc]

The argument is "If you are in a team with stupid people then the enf won't automatically get aggro back and people will go squish." Well, maybe this is what is supposed to happen... It's called aggro management. If you're really that interested in your damage dumper epeen factor on Beast, well, prepare for the aggro.

[Dictan]

seriously agg tools should be increased, not decreased.

how many times have You done.... oooh lets say beast. and as the enf is running up to beast(-1500 rs since rage wont have rs anymore and this will be worse walking through pande on a raid because thats as fast as the enf can go,.. SWEET!!), everyone in the raid alphas it before the tank is half way to the mob and not in mongo range yet.
and lets say the nt rocks it for 100+k pvm damage b4 the tank even starts to mongo.

bad idea, make the tanks, the actual tank and not turn them into the "new" keeper with team auras or just give me mongo decrush so I can see the nt and half the raid splat, then I can laugh at the nerf's
lame

makes my head hurt

[Obtena]

Simply don´t like the idear of being outclassed as tank by some other proffesion.

You don't like it? You must be one unhappy enfo then. Soldiers tank single mobs better than enfos since I even started playing and even some PVM shades got your number in some places.

Listen up guys ... if you haven't been intouch, Genele is updating many aspects of the game, including taunting devices. The taunt nanos are nerfed. That should mean that it will be 1) harder to tank with the currently junk devices/tools or 2) more interesting to tank with the updated devices/tools.

Either way, being a good PVM enfo might mean something.

[Skyelord]

You don't like it? You must be one unhappy enfo then.

No. Currently I can hold aggro against any one... if I really really try. :-)
(probably with the exception of some good, but crasy NTs)

Either way, being a good PVM enfo might mean something.

Yes. And thats the part I like. It only should be ensured that a good PvM enfo is still a valuabel part of the team.

[Shrubberyman]

The argument is "If you are in a team with stupid people then the enf won't automatically get aggro back and people will go squish." Well, maybe this is what is supposed to happen... It's called aggro management. If you're really that interested in your damage dumper epeen factor on Beast, well, prepare for the aggro.

I can only agree with Eroz. If I remember well, it was also mentioned that hp availability would be nerfed across the board, not only for enforcers. Less hp for everyone means, in PvM, less incentive to try and out-taunt the enforcer. Now, it remains to be seen how/if that hp reduction plan is gonna be carried out, and how/if it will have a significant impact on the PvP part.

[Obtena]

Yes. And thats the part I like. It only should be ensured that a good PvM enfo is still a valuabel part of the team.

No one else in the game has multi-mob taunting and tanking capabilities like an enfo does. That pretty much guarantees enfos place in most end-game raid teams, unless PVM is dumbed down to nothing and I don't see that happening.

[Kopecz]

So ... still no news on that new way for enfs to stay in range I see. Anyone taking bets on the probability of that information showing up in FWM tomorrow?

[Obtena]

What news were you expecting ...this was only the nano documentation. Whatever 'thing' that FC is thinking about, it doesn't necesarily mean it's a nanotool.

[Obtena]

BUMP THIS ...

Guys, there have been some significant changes to this. Look at the latest version of the enfo nano document HERE. I don't think people will be happy for some of the latest nano skill and cost changes, especially you PVP guys. I'm interestsed in getting your response to your IP situation for raising MM to 1435 for the proposed Hellish Rage.

[Spartanx9]

how many times have You done.... oooh lets say beast. and as the enf is running up to beast(-1500 rs since rage wont have rs anymore and this will be worse walking through pande on a raid because thats as fast as the enf can go,.. SWEET!!), everyone in the raid alphas it before the tank is half way to the mob and not in mongo range yet.
and lets say the nt rocks it for 100+k pvm damage b4 the tank even starts to mongo.

Let the NT die then. People will learn that they can't go all out right at the beginning. Any other game that if you don't have any threat wipe for your character and you start hitting stuff before the tank can hit it, you generally will die.

Now if tanks have problem with tanking if they are given a second or two, then it should be addressed.

Also, the RS debuff is also gone from SL essences, so your point is moot.

[Kopecz]

BUMP THIS ...

Guys, there have been some significant changes to this. Look at the latest version of the enfo nano document HERE. I don't think people will be happy for some of the latest nano skill and cost changes, especially you PVP guys. I'm interestsed in getting your response to your IP situation for raising MM to 1435 for the proposed Hellish Rage.

Oh crap! I totally missed that IP increase on Hellish Rage. No. Just absolutely ****ing no! Even with the top buffs being decreased from 1534 in BM, MC, and PM to 1480ish in same skills, there's still no way enfs should have IP increased in a skill that only really requires enough IP to cast Valiant Challenger when everyone else is having their requirements reduced dramatically. I doubt the Element line is going to be so useful that Enfs pump IP in MM to -cast- Element of Radiation, much less the -1601 MM- needed to actually get the top DoT, so there's no need to spend more MM than 1235.

It's just ****ing stupid beyond belief.

Also, I don't believe that new proc action, Masochist Force, makes any sense. As far as I'm reading it, it doesn't provide Enfs with a secondary role at all. From what I understand is it has a 30% chance to proc an action -IF YOU ARE BEING HIT- which is pretty much the exact opposite of what we asked for.