what?Originally Posted by Ilyrik
so problem MR? and/or you want nerf enfs alpha to keeper lvl?nice
go check keepers forum now...
Take a room you two.
You dont know me.
what?so problem MR? and/or you want nerf enfs alpha to keeper lvl?
Take a room you two.
You dont know me.
I bet a fixer who wants to tank enfs with MR
And you're someone who thinks fixers only job is to run apparently.I bet a fixer who wants to tank enfs with MR
You've proven your unknowledge enough already. Start discussing the topic or leave.
As a 2He Enf (220/30/70) with a end game setup, Id say +500 to AR would be OP.
Granted I dont have SA or easy to land perks, and my perks have massive recharge, I still think atm (as a 2He) Enf is rather balanced. Some areas have been nerfed in us, but the areas that make Enf fun are pretty good. Eg. now we dont go instanly down if someone has AS or FA within 40m of us.
these days just about anything can perk us, even with the rather large Def love we had, but thats not the problem imo. We have the HP to ignore that. FA is now a interesting gamble, and its fun as hell when it misses, and it really does sometimes.
AS? well...its AS, we all have to live with that.
Never tried 1He/1HB, but the problem with those enfs imo is, that they do sacrifice Alot of the survivability to do that setup, An Enf with 29-30K HP goes down rather fast. hence why im only going to try a pure 1He setup. Oh and...They suck at PvM. :P
If I add towers as some here have, iirc I have about 2.9K def, 3K AR (no chall nor procs) and 41.5K HP. Yes, My offence today is rather crap, but I see PvP from a Team PoV these days. And there Enf shines. Alone, we have the tools to survive, but in a team we have the tools to make the team steamroll others. IF and When opponents are stupid enough to try to kill the Enf first, and with right tactic, its funny how easily that happens.
I think most here comment on 1He/1HB Enfs from a duel PoV. and I bet they are awesome in that. Numbers alone tells us they are good in that. but not as good as Ranged Advs, Engis, Agents. yet, within the Top Tier ofc, but in BS? Id say those low HP Enfs go down rather easily. Atleast for now, while the Pistol perks are 80% and with the AS pistol, which means, alot or DMG inc. Now we cant evade "support profs" and they have a nice AS.
And Moonbolt (iirc yo usaid it). Craphander does NOT cap on us that much (if ever), nor does Fixer FA. Fixers damage is only semi high on us, even tho they have both specials. But yes, they will eventually win ofc, with kiting, but a proper Enf can almost ignore Fixers damage on him. In the time Fixer kills you, as a 1He/1HB I reckon you can kill 2 other toons. and as a 2He Enf, I can wait for a Looooong time for the Team to get there.
If the Fixer doesnt kite, even a 2He Enf wins. atleast I once had massive luck like that in a TW, and wasnt some random fixer. but I count that as a lottery win. :P
All in All, before this 1He/1HB craze, many said Enf is rather balanced. I still think it is. they (1He/1Hb) have higher Offence, but quite lower Def (HP+perks). I see em as easy kills in BS and crap toons to PvM with. imo thats a sacrifice. Enf is the most balanced toon in this Game.
Nothing more, nothing Less for ze Enf. Its perfect as it is. Fix the toons that need fixin', Enf doesnt.
The Enfs that are asking for more, are little kids in a candy shop, that is the balance fixes. Yall forget one thing. Dem Enfs Are troxes. Low Intelligence.
Last edited by Soosis; Jul 19th, 2010 at 23:07:16.
I challenge every endgame enforcer to a duel.
I will not kite.
I will note debuff.
I will stand toe to toe with you.
Taking bets on how quickly I die.
Before the lolhellrule is a nub, ill leave inspect open.
Minus 1igoc, i cannot improve my evades at all, as I am in a full defensive setup with no focus on ar or dd.
You will tear my crat apart.
Hellrule 220/30/70 - Your future Crat Dictator
Secretly Clan
But yer a crat!
Can I oppose you with my Adv? its a massivevely stupid npow as I wanted to see the ranged Adv part. And it is.
Is 1He-1Hb Enf even remotely stupid as Ranged Adv? iirc not.
Last edited by Soosis; Jul 20th, 2010 at 01:13:16.
the gauntlet has been thrown
Hellrule 220/30/70 - Your future Crat Dictator
Secretly Clan
So it has. Death is upon our names. One will die.
ALLAAAH! JIHAD!
Last edited by Soosis; Jul 20th, 2010 at 01:25:12.
just farmed reactive armor (and tanked everything)
2 dmg perks, stuns, snare, init debuff help in pvm
btw
You cant support team w/o stuns, init debuffs, or dps in pvp. (2he with hotswap no bad)
ps.:
gimp my AAO and AAD.. I dont care kills, but give me "always" working (tools) stuns, more snare, more fear, knockback/knockdown - I am good with it too.
I dont want to kill, but I want support my team/side... (funny - most supports wants kills)
edit: solo farmed reactive.. i hate solo anyway
Last edited by Ilyrik; Jul 20th, 2010 at 08:47:31.
Really? as I know for a fact that you suck donkey balls in PvM. Why? #1: Reactive farmage is solo PvM.just farmed reactive armor (and tanked everything)
2 dmg perks, stuns, snare, init debuff help in pvm
btw
You cant support team w/o stuns, init debuffs, or dps in pvp. (2he with hotswap no bad)
ps.:
gimp my AAO and AAD.. I dont care kills, but give me "always" working (tools) stuns, more snare, more fear
I dont want to kill, but I want support my team/side... (funny - most supports wants kills)
#2. Enf doesnt provide init debuffs that matter (in team, duh). Stuns in PvM are tears in a Ocean in encounters that matter and in PvP they are not neede dwhen teamed, you need survivability, and these days, Enf stuns only land on like 2-3 profs, I think even Kink said something about that. DPS from an Enf is the thing that gets him killed.
Now..Timing, Def (including HP), situational awereness, Balls. Thtats the stuff a good Enf Needs. Thats because our tools these days are great for survival, hell, I get called an Adv all the time.
You are right in one thing tho, "support" people do want alot of kills, preferably solo ones.
Last edited by Soosis; Jul 20th, 2010 at 07:41:56.
yeh i agree u got alot of survivability as an enf with 2he.. but u realy do crap dmg... ur alpha is even worse then keeper alpha so u dont have the power to take down anyone alone.
ur realy delerious..... ignore getting perkd?... hell a shade can alpha my enf in just about 5 secs if hes lucky with the stuns.
i dunno where u pvp...... but atleast on atlanten the soldiers and fixers learn to land -evade stuff on the target and once they do even greens cap FA 100% ... claiming other is just plain BS and tbh im realy wondering if u pvp at all with ur enf.
AS unless in the hands of an agent is alot less inclined to cap then an FA is so i dunno where u are getting ur info from.....
errr a pure 1he setup??... u will lack the stun from bring the pain and the init debuff from none crusher..... thus u will have even less chance to actually kill anyone then u do as 2he.
but u are correct in the matter that a 1he/1hb enf drops pretty fast.
im guessing u are in a full AR setup if u have 3k AR w/o challanger... and only 2.9k def ...
my enf is running around with 2.9k AR w/o challanger and 3119 def or something like that.'
and its quite funny how u claim that the enf can be a team player.... wtf do u do in BS ?? run around and layer people ??..... if the idiots u are pvping vs is so dumb that they keep shooting on the enf once the doc has came out and healed him they are just that..... ididots...
and it has nothing to do with ur awesome tactics etc... the people u are pvping against are IDIOTS!!.
u cant taunt player chars to attack u.... u cant heal ur friends... u cant protect ur friends in PvP...
but maybe u usually pvp vs hiisii bearsearker or something... yeah hes realy mean on that smacktalk aswell... enfs are one opf the classes that doesnt bring anything in terms of teaming in pvp except maybe being hughe and blocking the sight.
i dont think they are talking about dueling... i think people are still whining cause enfs were able to run away untill they nerfed runspeed.... and people thinks its anoying when someone runs away from u.
still the question is if u are on rimor?? cause u gotta have some crappy top end gear fixers on rimor in htat case...
endgame fixers will hurt ashell with both their FA and AS... and they are impossible to perk.
even with MR.. and dnt gimem that bull**** that craphander never caps... noone would use it if it was that crap. it doesnt cap every damn time im much aware of that ... but it do cap on a semi regular basis. a good fixer will hurt an enf pretty fast.
this is one of the first reasonable things u have said..... enforcers are balanced atm... every class has a chance to take us down and we have a chance to take everyone else down... ITS BALANCED. but peopel are crying OP cause it looks that way when our alpha hits them when they are undergeared.
yes enfs do need fixing... we need to get our runspeed adventage back again....
a melee that cant catch a ranged toon is a dead melee.
and u must have missed the balance documentation so far complelty....
1hb perks are taking a hughe hit to their dmg and their landing rate and the execution time.
SnD goes from 3 hits to 2 hits so that is aswell a nerf...
our stuns gets completly useless.... all of them get a 2 sec duration and all our attack perks have a 2 sec execution time so now we cant kill healers etc by stunning them.
rage gets a lockout to make us more subsceptable to roots/snares.
our max health takes a hit in the form off less life on Imub wich will make it even harder to win duels vs MAs/shades/soldiers/keeper.
the removal of strafe running was a direct nerf to enfs.
and enforcers get exactly 0 new shining toys to play with in the rebalance..... with EVERY OTHER CLASS GETTING NEW INTERESTTING THINGS AND BOOSTS AT THE SAME TIME AS THEY ARE TAKING NERFS.
enforcers will end up at the bottom of the food chain after the balance patch hits live if FC doesnt change their mind about a craplot of stuff about the changes to enfs.
Moonbolt - 220/26/something. Trox Enf RK1 General of Hells Heroes.
Renswind - 220/21/67 solitus trader.
Moonkiss - 219/21/something opifex shade.
Mooncloud - 150/18/somethin solitus MA.
and if u think that any ranged toon should be able to actually stand toe to toe with a melee class ur idiotic cause that would just be plain dumb OP once the ranged class starts to tkite in that case, and beleive me the ranged people will still kite.
Moonbolt - 220/26/something. Trox Enf RK1 General of Hells Heroes.
Renswind - 220/21/67 solitus trader.
Moonkiss - 219/21/something opifex shade.
Mooncloud - 150/18/somethin solitus MA.
If anything in Game can kill you as a Enf, in 5 seconds, you are crap. simple as that.
You know whats funny? You say Im full of ****, when the mathematical truth is that FA does not land 100%, NEVER, yet you claim so. I say it doesnt always land, you say it lands 100%. Hmmm...
want to put money on that comment? cuz I sure as hell do.
But its everywhere. more of a game design problem than anything. and as said, I can live with it. and...hold up...Didnt you just say that even craphander caps it? :P
Well, yer calcs did atleast....
Sorry for my choices, but I do them on basis of what I want to try, not on the basis of whats "the most OP"
Im trox (no MR) in a def setup, but 3.1K static def? Even Kink has less def than me, and he has alot. I have ****loads.
After perk change, a Opi might get the 3.1K static def, but now..you are just faffing about. You do NOT have 3.1K+ Static def. But thanks for lying, it makes people hate us Even more and your personal need of Epeen simply increases the lies what Enfs is. Those lies will soon accumulate to Nerfing us. I hope the Epeen was worth it.
Not a team player? Isnt the very essense of Enf "a team player". we arent great soloers (well, shouldnt be, these days we areant bad at all in that). Layer people? no. I take damage. Soak Up the damage that would otherwise kill everyone around me. for me, Thtat is what Im supposed to do, and I take pride in that.
And are you REALLY asking if people in BS are idiots? really now? isnt that more of a law of nature than a thing to ponder on. OFCOURSE they are idiots.
A mere chosen order of movement around the corner makes people attack the Enf first, while rest of the team wait for few seconds nor come at all just heal from around the corner. It really is that easy. Idiots? Yes! ;P
The running away part is nice and you might be on to something there. it does look bad as we do SURVIVE a big fight and get to run away.
Yes, Rimor. But believe it or not, the Laws of FC Maths are exactly the same here, as they are on RK1. so it makes no difference. and I think you missed something in my post. Tried to make it clear that ofc we gonna get our ass handed to us by a fixer. yes. aboo-effing-hoo. but they cant instanly kill us...unless yer a low HP gimp 1He/1HB enf. Im not. And as you said Shades kill you in 5 secs? im sorry, I can have em as my Pets while they try to kill me. prob is, I can do about 0 dmg to em, but I can move and use their time, which is them away from killing someone else. In there, the Team PvP comes to Play.
Ah, well that is rather annoying, agree you there, but....
Should we not wait for the balance act first before crying about it?
Ive seen and thought how bad it looks like. So What?
We will still be important in PvM and we had our good run Again in PvP.
And I dont think we get that much nerfed compared to others. We will still or soon be as competitive as we are now.
I dont care how longer (10-20sec?
20 secs, with a 6 man team is fricken long time. with in that time, a team kills 2-3 people, AND the Enf survives.I dont care how longer (10-20sec?
I dont care what yall can alpha, I want to win BS and a war or a PvM encountter. In there, im usefull, yall aint.
P.S I have a 220/30/70 Adv too. And that thing is stupid beyond belief. but one man will never win a war. (Adv might tho)
Last edited by Soosis; Jul 20th, 2010 at 09:07:30.
Hi Guys, I'm back!
Lets begin.
I didn't say crats were a problem, I merely said their evades actually acts like a defence vs them getting insta squished. Meaning evades don't make them immortal like some classes, and actually functions as a defence vs perk reliant classes or weapon classes in general.
Defence does not mean immortality
You can't kill anyone with one SA every 40s. You just can't. So yes, if your perks do nothing, there's no point even hitting the SA button unless your target is fighting someone else at the time.
I'm not saying that's a better situation than keepers
I'm saying that its effectively the same, the target isnt going to die, and most classes can handle 2-3k damage (on average) every 40 seconds.
Right, so.. we have HP to take the perk damage. Shades just flat out dont get hit by perk damage. How is enforcer defence better? Vs a weapon using class enfs take a lot more damage as they get perked. Vs a nano caster, (or pet class?) enf HP gives more valid defence as HP makes a difference here.
Which is what I said. I know I alpha'ed Moonbolt a couple of times (no rrfe), and he died a lot faster than any shade, whether they are AFK or not (perks will miss anyway)
Every class should die, every class does die (exception healing evade classes).. arguably enforcers should be one of the tougher classes to kill.
Enfs dont really kill plenty. If you look at a lot of the hardcore enf kill counts, they're way, way behind a lot of the other classes in terms of kills vs time played. So no, we don't really kill plenty, relative to many other classes out there with 6k-12-18?K solo kills.
I do realise this kill is not a 'kill' as much as it is farmed damage, but if enforcers apparently need less AR... we arent exactly doing a lot of damage to people, relative to other classes now, are we?
For an Agent, complaining about Enforcers is pretty sad. I don't know if you're playing anything else, but the concept of a melee class being hard to root is pretty normal, considering every AO melee class has access to ignoring roots and snares.
I've just posted numbers and logic. You've posted nothing but random agro. I know how to play the game and I'd wager I could step into any of the classes mentioned and perform at least as good or better than their original owner. Anyone who has actually pvped with or against me in the last 10 years on the various characters i've played would concede that.
Focusing on one stat? theres more to def than AAD. With rrfe you guys have 60% reflect. You're also unperkable. So that extra 60 AAD is clearly only a part of a much greater hole.
I'd imagine advys have a lot less than 1199 AAD too. So my defence is better? Cmon, thats a crap argument.
Actually you're a little lost here. Good players will just ignore your alpha, and then ignore you. There's a reason they will kill the Enforcer last, because
1) It takes time to whittle down 40k hp
2) The enforcer is not actually a threat
This is what is actually occuring. I dont see myself living through insane zergs through my awesome survivability as much as the enemy focuses on crats, traders, soldiers, Agents etc and other classes around that have the chance to threaten them.
I may get lucky and alphakill a doc, great. For the next minute the battle will rage around me and I can uh, spam layers on someone.
So basically what I said to begin with. The only real change that needs to happen is perhaps a change to healing, and make missed perks do damage (some damage. not 100% damage. 20% damage? Maybe different perk lines with less damage but lower checks? etc)All in All, before this 1He/1HB craze, many said Enf is rather balanced. I still think it is. they (1He/1Hb) have higher Offence, but quite lower Def (HP+perks). I see em as easy kills in BS and crap toons to PvM with. imo thats a sacrifice. Enf is the most balanced toon in this Game.
But saying enfs are OP, and our AR is OP is just, well, uninformed about the class they are complaining about.
If the perk changes go live, you will not see any competent enforcers, unless all perks can land on anyone, and noone can heal, at all, in PVP, which is very unlikely to happen.
Don't be lonely anymore.
Look at your post, now back at mine. Now back to your post, now back at mine. Sadly, yours isn't mine, but if you stopped trolling and started posting legitimate comments it could look like mine. Look down, back up, where are you? You're scrolling through posts, reading the posts your posts could look like. Back at mine, it's a reply saying something you want to hear. Look again, my reply is now diamonds. Anything is possible when you think before you post.
Missed the point where he said he aint a shield user then. Bow mp cant even out heal reg dmg from a enf :-P
Bow or shield mp is pretty low on an enf's radar
Still here
yeh i agree cryfreeman... MPs dont realy hurt enfs much.. except with dominates.... they suck.
but killing a sheild MP w/o MR is impossible and the sheild MP cant realy kill the enf either.
so MPs realy have the upper had in that fight cause 1 dominate and the enf needs to go die or stay out of combat for 5 mins.
Moonbolt - 220/26/something. Trox Enf RK1 General of Hells Heroes.
Renswind - 220/21/67 solitus trader.
Moonkiss - 219/21/something opifex shade.
Mooncloud - 150/18/somethin solitus MA.
I was not talking about my "awesome" alpha there, was I. :P
Merely on the fact that many panic and scatter (just as you said, was it you? long thread) when an Enf runs in to the battle. In BS, thats easy to use as a "weapon".
Most people only think of Alphas and **** as weapons, but in reality, there is Way more tools than that.
But after the initial shock and awe, you are right: "battle around me". which really does mean I just home in on a doc , do /follow and wait for someone else to help me, Then I load my "alpha" on the doc.
That means I just watch how other people fight, 70% of the time. but in that 30%, I soaked hteir alphas and specials, so that the real nerfy ones can come in and kill the omnis who are drowning in MY blood. Enf Ftw.
Last edited by Soosis; Jul 20th, 2010 at 10:15:21.
Bow MPs alpha-killable by enf.Bow or shield mp is pretty low on an enf's radar
But shield MPs can kill enf very easy - I would say enfs are one of the most easiest opponents for shield MPs, I have killed dozens of them.
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