Really? How about making a list to drive this point home. I know of a few bosses who are UBT proof, and that's about it. I don't think you have much of a point here, sorry.
I'll give you a list of endgame boss mobs that are immune to malaise: none.
No reason to discount something just because it breaks very fast. Doctors can also hit very fast with pistols. So you're alternating between -1206 and -2596 for a total of -3775 when everything procs at once. Again, I don't think you have much of a point here. If you're honestly trying to pretend that doc init procs aren't significant, we can just agree to disagree, as I say you are unreasonable.
Scary math that shows that Anatomic Blight breaks very fast in team. You can call that unreasonable if you want, I call it math. Where did you get the 1206? Astringent that breaks even faster than Anatomic Blight? Muscular Malaise, the only doctor proc that is not breakable, debuffs 908. As XenonDe has said as well already, Anatomic Blight is OP solo or in small teams. Right now crat buffs alone, without any additional init debuffs from any other profession, are OP in every situation. I consider these separate issues and I personally give a much higher priority to the crat debuffs being OP in every possible situation.
Doctors can proc + ubt for more than crats can debuff, and on mobs docs can't ubt, even granting that the one proc breaks
sometimes so fast that it could be considered instantly, the difference is what, around -1850 for crats versus -1200 for doctors? I guess my understanding of the words 'far below' differs from yours.
Strange numbers again. The total of unbreakable crat init debuffs is 2531, that of doctor is 908. I call that far below.
Sure, you can start with any raid in which you're low on heal power and otherwise wouldn't be able to do the raid without
too much init debuffs. Following that, any raid where you're low on tanking power, I could go on all day.
So what you're basically saying is that when the total amount of crat init debuffing is lowered to the point of not being completely OP anymore, then you couldn't do the raid in the same team setup anymore. I would call that a given indeed, but it does not mean that the raid becomes impossible like you said earlier.
Also, I'll draw your attention to the fact that whatever point you're trying to make by comparing doc procs to crat procs, you seem to be missing my point, which is that there are a lot of init debuffs ingame and most of them stack. My point in mentioning doc procs? Crat debuffs stack with them. You think it's OP that crats have
too much init debuffs? It's all the more so that docs can proc a mob that crats have already debuffed.
The permanent init debuffing of crats alone is far too much for any encounter, if any init debuffing has to be nerfed, it is these. If the LE procs are changed muscular malaise is likely to go the way of the dodo, leaving only a shade proc for 850 that can be cept running permanently by a single player, every other debuff is either short duration or highly breakable.
Which again, brings me to my point that active debuffs aren't necessarily the problem here. Perhaps the problem is that pvm mobs are too generic when debuffed. Alternative behavior could solve this problem and make pvm more challenging when crats have init debuffs, docs have procs and ubt, and when it's the most problem, when crats and docs are working together.
If you think taking away a long term toolset is going to be easy, think again.
Who said anything about taking away all init debuffs of crats? I know I didn't. And my point stands, you're making it too simple. If you nerf inits to the point that pvm is challenging, then there's no point in casting inits
If it's not completely OP, it suddenly becomes not worth using anymore? Between the black and white of overpowered and useless, there's a whole grey zone where it could be useful while not being overpowerd. In my opinion, that is the area in which the profession's toolsets should be situated., which means it's no fun for the players to use their toolsets.
I disagree with your statement that not having completely overpowered tools at your disposal would make the game unfun. If you change the mob AI so that inits make them gimpier, but not completely useless, you have a win win—players get to use their toolsets and feel useful, but it's not a simple 'i-win' button anymore.
Or you could just change a few nanos to get the same effect, but then that would of course be direct nerf, which could be implemented now instead of whenever.
Ever heard of object oriented programming? The idea is that you code the template for how something works once, then you can call it as many times as you need to anywhere else and reuse the code without having to actually recode the feature every time you want to use it.
A few items (short database entries) are overpowered, lets implement a completely new system so that we can introduce the mechanics needed to overcome these few overpowered numbers. This sure sounds like a good plan, what is the eta? Before or after the new engine releases? I'm also going to state for the record that I am not against implementing a system that would allow FC to implement better AI easier, but this would be a very longterm major project, while the AO team is very small and doing other stuff as well.
I'm not a FC developer, but adding a default behavior to boss mobs that says 'if init debuffed, do such and such' should not be as difficult as you might imagine. And again, I've already demonstrated that it's not one profession having too much init debuffing, it's a combination of there being just a lot of init debuffing ingame.
You haven't demonstrated anything, unless you consider that saying Anatomic Blight doesn't break fast -despite evidence to the contrary- makes it so. I can do the math for crat init debuffs to know that these alone are OP and I have repeatedly seen demonstrations of their power in endgame raids, where the crat init debuffs alone were enough to trivialize the encounter.
@Saetos
Crat's aren't a Jesus profession.
You say stuff like that, and then pretend to be surprised when people are irritable with you, but I know better. The truth is, most encounters and most mob AI is such that a lot of our CC doesn't work. I can't think of the last time roots were useful to me in pvm, snares are only useful sometimes in extreme soloing situations, none of our AOE stuff works really, fears don't do anything in pvm, etc... so when it comes right down to it, the only thing bureaucrats really have for reliable CC in pvm raids are boss calms and init debuffs.
Why are people saying you'll obliterate crats if you nerf these things? It's obviously an exaggeration, but perhaps the sentiment comes from the fact that for the most part, you're asking to nerf the only reliable pvm CC we have for raids.
Anyway, you were complaining about how mobs are immune to your debuffs, and I say that's only evidence to the fact that the root of the problem is mob AI.
Ideally, there should be no immunities to any debuffs, there should only be interesting consequences for using debuffs. In an encounter that's meant to be challenging, no debuff should be an 'i-win' button, but every debuff should increase the likelihood of success, and perhaps the best way to facilitate that would be through changing mob reaction to being debuffed, not through immunities and debuff nerfs.
Lastly, I can't help but agree with some of the less articulate posters that some of what you're saying seems to be good old fashioned epeen envy.
The ever golden personal defamation attempt. I personally am more worried about the population of AO than my epeen. The minimal team setups, that are only possible because of completely overpowered tools like crat init debuffs, have not been good for the health of the game. Bureaucrats have _always_ been one of the top pvm professions, both soloing and teaming, and many people have chosen to play crats over the years for that very reason. Init debuffs have been ingame a long time, why is it suddenly a huge problem that bureaucrats are good at pvm?