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Thread: Mbss

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Lisergia View Post
    Try duels.
    I was unaware that dueling removed your ability to move. Is this a new feature?
    Waiting for a cure.

  2. #82
    Though you cannot kite that kinda running-devastating machineries while doing a significant ammount of damage that would get rid off any semi-good PvP Engineer. Therefore you've gotta stand still. Melee people, you know.
    Angevil, proud 220 MA from Rimor.
    Flourishing anew. About twelve GUI/Perk/Armor setups done so far, hopefully that one will outlast the criticism of my perfectionism!

    Ars Magna. Histories became artifacts, images of poor effect, memories filled with acts and neglect
    As a vulture of cultures I indeed feed my seeds with much greed, soaked in pleasure I succeed

  3. #83
    But at the same time you kite the engineer isn't doing any kind of substantial damage to the MA, either. It must be that alpha mentality that people have ingrained in their minds. Some profs you just have to wear down slowly. Engineer is one of those.
    Waiting for a cure.

  4. #84
    Truly, though you can pop a few Aimed Shots now and then, which will result in the MA having to quit running in order to heal up. I'm not even talking about melee profs with higher HPs (or not) who cannot heal up that often. Sure that ain't an incredible ammount of damage and it can be easily outhealed, though, if the MA starts to stand still and the Engi didn't waste his toolset like a retard, the MA will eat, badly. I'm not even exaggerating.
    Your pets really hit hard, and fast. Along with ASs, it's kinda tough. Whatever though, it's outta subject.

    Edit : And I would never kite anyone because I kinda dislike it when it happens to me, not to follow the old "Christian anthem", but still. I prefer to lose and get pissed off (sometimes) rather than kiting. My bad.
    Last edited by Soliartist; Jul 17th, 2010 at 00:55:31.
    Angevil, proud 220 MA from Rimor.
    Flourishing anew. About twelve GUI/Perk/Armor setups done so far, hopefully that one will outlast the criticism of my perfectionism!

    Ars Magna. Histories became artifacts, images of poor effect, memories filled with acts and neglect
    As a vulture of cultures I indeed feed my seeds with much greed, soaked in pleasure I succeed

  5. #85
    Okes, WTF are you speaking about?!? The AS gun is OP on support proffs?
    Let me explain you this from a doctors point of view:

    Lets see the reqs on the Xan guns:
    Troa'Ler Pistol
    To Equip User Pistol >= 2251 and
    User Aimed shot >= 1651
    Multi ranged 1750

    Peh'Wer Pistol
    To Equip User Pistol >= 2251 and
    User Burst >= 1651 and
    User Fling shot >= 1126
    Multi ranged 1750

    1. 2251 Pistol skill -> doable; having 2251 Pistol selfbuffed I doubt so, I didnt do the exact math, but if it's doable it'll require ql300 implants which by itself if a huge nerf to other skills

    2. 1651 AS skill -> doable; keeping it high enough to cap the 11 sec AS recharge equals a huge sacrifice in other areas, and renders you incapable for some PWM stuff without swapping gear

    3. 1651 Burst, 1126 Fling -> doable

    4. 1750 MR -> doable, but only just; this is a damn pain in the ass I got like ~1020 MR at lvl 219 now and thats with 4 ql300 CC parts on (without the alpha wrist symbs), note that in order to get 1750 MR at lvl 220 requires you to have Alpha wrists AND to have/borrow a ql 300 supple based armor and even then you might need a few more skill points to trickle down, yes docs have a huge issue with that

    5. Usability: those guns are good, they're great even, but note that for PWM the Doctor's Left/Right Hand are possibly a better solution, when it comes to PVP you can't use the 1k PVP dot with the new guns either

    Also note that many people don't have the resources to get the gear needed as a prerequisite to equip those guns (just look at the intell support symb prices on the market).

    Those guns are in no way OP if you plan to PVP as a doc, the way FC made the profession makes this one of the few viable solutions in PVP, considering the DoT's and Malpractice being close to useless because of the ridiculous cast time, success rates when landing them, huge nanocost and extremely short duration (if you manage to land all 3 of them in succession at 80% aggdef slider, you have to start recasting the 1st one after ~10 seconds).

    That gun may be a bit (but just a bit) OP on engies and a bit more OP on crats, due to other attack abilites those professions do possess but in no way is it that much of an OP as you are stating it to be.

    Regards,
    Lotan

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Lotan View Post
    ...considering the DoT's and Malpractice being close to useless because of the ridiculous cast time, success rates when landing them, huge nanocost and extremely short duration
    No.
    They are not even close to useless. If you don't have enough nano, you're not doing it right. If you can't cast them, you're not doing it right. If you run out of nano, you're not doing it right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lotan View Post
    That gun may be a bit (but just a bit) OP on engies and a bit more OP on crats, due to other attack abilites those professions do possess but in no way is it that much of an OP as you are stating it to be.
    If the gun isn't OP'd, why don't people use a different weapon?

    If it's not it's not the best item to use, why don't you make a PVP setup that doesn't utilize that gun?

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    If the gun isn't OP'd, why don't people use a different weapon?

    If it's not it's not the best item to use, why don't you make a PVP setup that doesn't utilize that gun?
    Because the other viable options don't incorporate our toolset, aren't buffed by our nanos, have no symb support, little if any perk support. Is there any other obvious stuff you'd like me to point out?

    Look at what people used before troaler. Energy carbines and rollable RK weapons from 11.0. Oh joy.
    Last edited by Mostadio; Aug 24th, 2010 at 02:50:26.
    Waiting for a cure.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Mostadio View Post
    Because the other viable options don't incorporate our toolset, aren't buffed by our nanos, have no symb support, little if any perk support. Is there any other obvious stuff you'd like me to point out?

    Look at what people used before troaler. Energy carbines and rollable RK weapons from 11.0. Oh joy.
    So, you have a super streamlined version of the perfect PVP weapons which is:

    * buffed by your standard buffs
    * have symb support
    * have loads of perk support
    * has aimedshot

    And, you're not calling it OP'd?

  9. #89
    so by your logic, the weapons that a trader or agent use are OP by default?
    Greetings,



    Ellarisa
    Darkellarisa 220/30/70 Engineer equipment pvp // Alien Deaths: 353
    Crazyella 220/30/70 MP equipment // Alien Deaths: 90
    Stabbingella 220/28/67 Shade equipment // Alien Deaths: 45
    Farming alien deaths since 2006!

    Quote Originally Posted by Solidstriker View Post
    And Ella said, "Let there be robots," and there were robots. Ella saw that the robots were good, and he separated the light from the dark. Ella called the light "Slayerdroids," and the dark he called "Gladiatorbots." And there was Automations, and there was Warmachines- the second day.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    The classic example of this was the advent of the Dshark. Granted, Soldiers were an underpowered class for a while with very few good weapon choices after the Superior Perennium Blaster, but, the Dshark was the first of several VASTLY overpowered weapons that changed the game for the worse.

    The problem with the Dshark is that every dipstick with enough skill to equip this gun, INSTANTLY gained a capped recharge full auto special. This caused massive ripples in the AO community; in fact, the ripples were more like a tidal wave. The number of soldiers rolled as soon as the D-shark was released is a testement to it.

    Why was this a problem? The problem is that there is no balance associated with the equipping of an overpowered piece of equipment.

    Prior to the release of the D-shark, soldiers needed to think hard about where they wanted to go, and in what way they could achieve thier goals. Some soldiers opted to stick with the SPB, others chose the higher min damage sacrosanct Blaster, others chose to go with the triple special Kry'zoch carbine.

    If you go with the carbine, you get bigger min damage another special but slower FA's, if you go with the SPB, you get faster FA recharge, but lower min damage. The sacrosanct blaster was often overlooked, because the attack time was large, and people couldn't understand that it would be good damage, also, radiation damage type was relatively unsupported. There was Balance because there was no clear choice.
    Just....please never use this as an example of anything good even with a caveat at the start, we went through years of banging our heads against the wall trying to make FC understand what soldiers needed....we dont need reminding
    ALTS: Alienhunter, Moonglum, Quellist, Quellcrist, Jesharet

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Ellarisa View Post
    so by your logic, the weapons that a trader or agent use are OP by default?
    Greetings,



    Ellarisa
    Agent's core offence is built around being a "sniper" so, no.

    Trader doesn't have 2 pets that bash out about the same damage as a shade. So, no.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    No.
    They are not even close to useless. If you don't have enough nano, you're not doing it right. If you can't cast them, you're not doing it right. If you run out of nano, you're not doing it right.



    If the gun isn't OP'd, why don't people use a different weapon?

    If it's not it's not the best item to use, why don't you make a PVP setup that doesn't utilize that gun?
    I got enough nano, i can cast it, i cant run out of nano....however im dead coz i need 7 seconds to cast all 3 (if they land at all).

    So basically youre saying all top profession weapons are OP, coz every profession, naturally, is using their top weapon.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    Agent's core offence is built around being a "sniper" so, no.

    Trader doesn't have 2 pets that bash out about the same damage as a shade. So, no.
    oh so now your 4 rules are just for pet professions?

    engi pets doing the same damage as a shade? must be one hell of a gimp shade...
    Greetings,



    Ellarisa
    Darkellarisa 220/30/70 Engineer equipment pvp // Alien Deaths: 353
    Crazyella 220/30/70 MP equipment // Alien Deaths: 90
    Stabbingella 220/28/67 Shade equipment // Alien Deaths: 45
    Farming alien deaths since 2006!

    Quote Originally Posted by Solidstriker View Post
    And Ella said, "Let there be robots," and there were robots. Ella saw that the robots were good, and he separated the light from the dark. Ella called the light "Slayerdroids," and the dark he called "Gladiatorbots." And there was Automations, and there was Warmachines- the second day.

  14. #94
    Give me one pet professin with a pet that dishes out shade damage (i wont be greedy, so lets say a shade with ofab mk6+the prisoner weapon and ofab armor, with pre lox spirits) and ill go reroll that profession and sign a written statement that ill wield concrete cushions as weapons.

  15. #95
    Here's my point of view...

    I know for a fact no one spams forums more for nerfs against things he struggles coping with, than Noobast... However I agree that something with the AS pistols is wrong... I mean it's a guaranteed hit... They don't have to cap every time. Like the other day I was watching a Engi VS enf duel... The engi got in a series of 3 matches he got 4 10k AS'es.. If it were 1-4 k randomly I'd say it's fine...

    However Adventurers are not that OP right now, myself as an MA can stay alive 1v1 vs a ranged advy for about 3-4 minutes... Aimed shots actually don't cap every time, and ranged is far easier to stay alive against than melee.. Melee hits more reliably, and has dimach/AS swap for big time alpha... VS ranged = de-equip some HP gear and time your stuff well = win...

    Crattey: Hillarious how you wtfpwned Noobast with those 14 whine posts he created... But as a evade profession I must say crat/Engi pets alone kills a MA rather fast especially with the new proc nukes.... I've had 2x crat pet attack me and with DoF ES up sitting at 5800 ish evades, hitting me 2 normals which both proccs paired with a AS from the crat equalling 95% of my hp in a blink of an eye through vast amounts of defense...
    And Engi's are no different, let's take aduel example:
    Duel starts <- MA pops prisoner cloak to avoid some damage, then heals as soon as he can...
    with Matrix of Ka/ql 275 first aid 250 battle prepared treatment kits, 2x perk heals flower of life HHAB ring and MA absorb (1500 all dmg types). Healing ammounts to about 15k with 1x matrix and heal delta not taken into account..
    Sum up: 13% flect graft cast in advance, prisoner cloak beeing used, ES + Dof (+1800 def) healing for 15k and absorbing a total of 1500+800 this get's me through the first 2 aimed shots... after that the engi's damage is still the same on me whilest I got no more heals other than Matrix of Ka every 8 sec. If MA doesn't kite the engi you can be pretty sure he's dead by the third or fourth AS:P Depending alittlebit on our luck, we can do alot of damage in that time, however in most cases no where near what it takes to kill a good pvp engi (Note that I also throw Red Dusk and incapacitate on the dog for 1600-initiatives)

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Lotan View Post
    Give me one pet professin with a pet that dishes out shade damage (i wont be greedy, so lets say a shade with ofab mk6+the prisoner weapon and ofab armor, with pre lox spirits) and ill go reroll that profession and sign a written statement that ill wield concrete cushions as weapons.
    Go attend any endgame raid, with a engi and crat and shade competing for top DD spot and tell me who comes out on top.

    Subtract the damage that the prof can do solo, and youre left with pet damage. when you figure that out, I promise I'll have thought of some good names for your new engi.

    I don't think "Roboto" is taken on Rk2.

    @ Ellarisa: hmm? yes.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Juzzif View Post
    Crattey: Hillarious how you wtfpwned Noobast with those 14 whine posts he created... But as a evade profession I must say crat/Engi pets alone kills a MA rather fast especially with the new proc nukes.... I've had 2x crat pet attack me and with DoF ES up sitting at 5800 ish evades, hitting me 2 normals which both proccs paired with a AS from the crat equalling 95% of my hp in a blink of an eye through vast amounts of defense...
    Sure, it can happen. However, keep in mind that crat pets have rather low AR. Top of my head it's something like 2200 for Carlo and 2900 for the CEO. With today's def values, they won't be hitting reliably, especially not on an MA with perks up. Pair that with the fact that the proc is 25% chance on hit, and the odds of two crat pets wtfpwning a MA with his perks up straight away are rather low.

    Besides, usually a duel versus an offensively setup MA is kinda a glass cannon vs. glass cannon type of fight. Most of the time an MA can hotswap and splat the crat before the pets get enough hits in.

  18. #98
    But Engineers are far from unkillable in duels, unlike you seem to express it, Juzz. I mean, yes, sometimes it may be annoying to see your HPs dropping in like two seconds because of an AS coupled with Pets/Procs, but in a duel situation, Engineers are pretty much killable, as a MA. As far as debuffing the pets, even only one, it takes too much time and doesn't buy ya enough time for you to take the Engineer down, very very often. There aren't a lot of good PvP Engineers, probably as many as good PvP MAs. For a decent PvP MA, an unexperienced Eng is cake in a duel, for a top-notch MA, a top-notch Engi is hard to defeat, but not impossible to take down, however. What bothers me the most is how their Pets can rip out a good MA with DoF & ES up though, it's a reality.
    Angevil, proud 220 MA from Rimor.
    Flourishing anew. About twelve GUI/Perk/Armor setups done so far, hopefully that one will outlast the criticism of my perfectionism!

    Ars Magna. Histories became artifacts, images of poor effect, memories filled with acts and neglect
    As a vulture of cultures I indeed feed my seeds with much greed, soaked in pleasure I succeed

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    Go attend any endgame raid, with a engi and crat and shade competing for top DD spot and tell me who comes out on top.

    Subtract the damage that the prof can do solo, and youre left with pet damage. when you figure that out, I promise I'll have thought of some good names for your new engi.

    I don't think "Roboto" is taken on Rk2.

    @ Ellarisa: hmm? yes.
    You're comparing PVM damage/setups/targets with PVP situations. I think you need to sit back and look at what you just did. If you are still able to find any kind of relevance, please continue on this train of thought.
    Waiting for a cure.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Mostadio View Post
    You're comparing PVM damage/setups/targets with PVP situations. I think you need to sit back and look at what you just did. If you are still able to find any kind of relevance, please continue on this train of thought.
    Considering AAO on a pet is what determines it's damage, I don't think it's that far off.

    If a engi is swapping guns (from the AS pistol to another pistol of choice) thats fine, but, dont forget that in PVP the AS pistol specials become active, so in PVP the engi himself will start to become much more deadly than in pvm (where the AS pistol is only good for regulars)

    Anyway, I don't think anyone here is saying that Engies aren't at the top of the PVP pile, with the top weapons in game the best toolset, and the top peripheral damage coming from pets.

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