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Thread: 170 agents needs nerf :)

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by -Klod- View Post
    OK and why do I have to make an agent if I want some PvP fun? Why can't I spend 5 billion on, say, MP and pwn like you guys?


    Last tl5 duel tournament thingy on rk2 was won by a MP wasnt it or anyway not last but if i remember right it was when we had LE/sec10 **** everything so basicly there WAS ALL there is now . How does that go around your agenda ?

    NERF MPs plx how the hell did the MP won omfg qq OVER POWERED!! *sad face*
    "Men are more ready to repay an injury than a benefit, because gratitude is a burden and revenge a pleasure. "

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by viktory22 View Post
    MPs have a good toolset at tl5.
    Yeah, right.

    Maybe on the scale from 1 to 10, with "good" being 2 and "godlike" being 10, which is reserved for agents.

    Quote Originally Posted by iolanda View Post
    Last tl5 duel tournament thingy on rk2 was won by a MP wasnt it or anyway not last but if i remember right it was when we had LE/sec10 **** everything so basicly there WAS ALL there is now . How does that go around your agenda ?

    NERF MPs plx how the hell did the MP won omfg qq OVER POWERED!! *sad face*
    Must be you had a nightmare or sumtin, or the tournament itself was sort of special Olympics.

    Anyways, I believe additional nerfing of tl5 agents will bring more balance to at least 3 existing "underdog" professions, without the need to waste precious time on tweaking each of them separately, while still leaving agents as formidable opponents.
    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

    MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by viktory22 View Post
    Why should a support toon become even to a toon meant to have a high chance 1v1?
    Why would you roll an MP and whine about it getting perked when everyone in the game knows that MPs are not the best evaders?
    Haha, yeah, keep it up. The "you're a support profession, you're supposed to be gimped!" argument is so 2007.

    The general idea behind "balance", you know the thing we are supposed to discuss here, is that each fight is fair - no instant kills, and no I win buttons. Fun for all parties involved.

    You're definitely right a good MP can create a lot of havoc in enemy lines, especially if they have a lot of subpar toons that can't cast their nanos under some debuffs. But that still doesn't justify you insta'ing them.

    As for the reason we're whining about getting perked: it is our only defense. We don't have absorbs. We don't have proper heals. We don't have high reflects. When you hit us it will ALWAYS hurt bad because you just breached our only line of defense.

    Just like ... a debuffed Mimic Doc Agent. Sounds familiar? Go around doing your thing, everything's fine, and suddenly the floor falls away from under your feet because someone bypassed your only defense.
    Lupusceleri L220/30/70 Agent -- Advisor of Spartans -- equip endgame AR setup endgame def setup <3 Azs wearer of Cheree's pants
    Arrowsmith -- Arafellin -- Alphacenta -- Aesculapias -- Wolfseye -- Lysdexic


    TL5 enf twink: im out those MPs are to overpowered

    crattey: The Balance Discussion forum. Where common sense goes to die.

  4. #84
    You will never have a completely fair fight in game with different professions and different styles of play.

    But i dont understand the complaints of nerfing only agents since this thread was started about an alpha containing 2 generic perks. Those perks have already been discussed and the AAO check is in question. Eliminate the check of x2 AAO and you still will be perked by an agent/sol/enf/trader.

    And you of all people know the power of a MP at tl5.. The fact that it is one of the harder professions to play at that TL5 needs to be questioned. Maybe give MP's a mini rhiwen(spelling) or evade perk line. who knows but the question of just pulling out a nerf stick on professions is just funny. Because if you look at RK2 and take the top of each profession they are not 1000-0 vs people 1 on 1 i can assure you that .

    P.S. I dont question the agent has the biggest alpha. I question the way people try to "nerf it." As stated its easier to nerf 1 profession than to increase all the others around it.

    But once again in a game that has different professions and different playstyles there will always be the top of a food chain the only difference is how close other professions are too it.

    "Anyways, I believe additional nerfing of tl5 agents will bring more balance to at least 3 existing "underdog" professions, without the need to waste precious time on tweaking each of them separately, while still leaving agents as formidable opponents." --- Klod

    All nerfing does is takes 1 profession from the top and replaces it with another. The focus on only nerfing 1 profession once again creats an unbalance of the game. The idea of raising every profession around them is the key.

    NT - maybe getting ability to cast multiple nanos at once?
    MP- needs evades if feast/fuzz check x2 AAO still b/c as proven MP's can reach high dodge at tl5
    Engi-needs some loving
    Shade-needs a lot

    Those imo are the biggest underdog professions, why not give them each something new to their toolset at lower levels and leave other professions somewhat the same. the x2 AAO check is already being checked so Feast/Fuzz complaints won't exsist which is by far, one of the best combos at tl5. Personally once those are fixed i would like to see agents alpha then b/c tl5 has some insane dodge twinks
    Last edited by viktory22; Jun 21st, 2010 at 04:16:19.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by viktory22 View Post

    NT - maybe getting ability to cast multiple nanos at once?
    MP- needs evades if feast/fuzz check x2 AAO still b/c as proven MP's can reach high dodge at tl5
    Engi-needs some loving
    Shade-needs a lot

    Those imo are the biggest underdog professions, why not give them each something new to their toolset at lower levels and leave other professions somewhat the same. the x2 AAO check is already being checked so Feast/Fuzz complaints won't exsist which is by far, one of the best combos at tl5. Personally once those are fixed i would like to see agents alpha then b/c tl5 has some insane dodge twinks
    And Crats!
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    Citymusic08 - 220/30/70 - Fixed!!!
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    Dealornodeal Trader 25/3 Subway Trader
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  6. #86
    wow this thread still going on
    Rapped 220/30/70 Enforcer game over equip retired
    Rapzilla 220/30/70 Adventurer game over equip mr newb?
    Mayhemia 220/30/70 NT game over equip Fixer's best frand
    Rippli 220/25/70 Soldier new equip BS junkie
    Amazinghorse aka Rippped 170/24/42 Agent equip new OP tl5 tool
    Rappjr work in progress
    Rippped 207/30/70 Agent fastest AI30 Ever?

    General of Quetzfags // General of The Asylum

  7. #87
    May the Sploitz be with u Ciex's Avatar
    TL5 agent, especially in fp doc, represents everything that is the worst in AOs pvp; unevadable specials that usually just negate both reflects and huge hp benefits, pretty much unstoppable perk attacks, ability to fill his HP bar up to 100% when alpha fails, unremovable debuffs (UBT), silly 200% crit buffs, kiting ... There are some annoying things like traders that land both debuffs through your NR, no matter how high it is, or docs that just don’t want to die, and the more you beat them, the faster they heal up, or MPs and their silly debuffs that don’t even wear up when new BS round starts, or enfs that completely negate some CC tools, especially from crats or whatever. But nothing is as stupid as agent is, especially when you throw him in a gay-kite friendly environment like BS lift is, so he can wipe out entire opposing force if only he is allowed to abuse elevator. So the thread will go on. Although, from what i remember, the situation is getting better because pre LE there was completely nothing at tl5 that could beat an agent and now some professions do stand a chance at last in some conditions.

    Quote Originally Posted by viktory22 View Post
    NT - maybe getting ability to cast multiple nanos at once?
    ...
    Those imo are the biggest underdog professions, why not give them each something new to their toolset at lower levels and leave other professions somewhat the same.
    Yeah, tl5 NT is teh nurfest profession, they need a lot of love. CH would be nice, but ability to cast 5 tripp0lz at once would also be good.
    Last edited by Ciekafsky; Jun 21st, 2010 at 08:39:45.
    Asasello, Sottcapo, Ciex, Rychu, Ciek, Zomowiec, Ciekafsky, Rysiek, Chinaski, Libertarian, Propertarian.

  8. #88
    You need to get ya facts straight, mimc doc does not have 2100 ar. Sure they may have decent hp, but its either hp or ar, not both.
    Posted by Seventh: Has something to do with the fact that RL speaking im 172 sm high and weight 96 kg, all of which come in muscle form (and guessing your reaction about forum pvp, yes i can log into webcam )

    Said the pixels lol..

  9. #89
    They dont realize the best FP docs on rk2 carry around 1930ish AR. They complain that people are using generic perks that anyone can have. The only difference is those perks fit into the agent alpha better than other professions. But if you eliminate the x2 AAO check on those perks then 1930 AR will no longer perk 2100 def mps.

    Stop complaining about only agents since this all got started because of 2 generic perks. Its the x2 AAO check which is the problem. Eliminate that and agent will no longer have the highest alpha since it wont land on Advy/Ma/Fix/Mp/Crat/etc.. If they twink evades.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by viktory22 View Post
    You will never have a completely fair fight in game with different professions and different styles of play.
    I know, and I'm fine with that, but is it too much to ask not to be insta-killed when that Agent presses Q and 1234 on me? I wouldn't care so much if the agent took, say, 15 or 20 seconds to take me down (which is what not landing AI perks comes down to).

    Quote Originally Posted by viktory22 View Post
    But i dont understand the complaints of nerfing only agents since this thread was started about an alpha containing 2 generic perks. Those perks have already been discussed and the AAO check is in question. Eliminate the check of x2 AAO and you still will be perked by an agent/sol/enf/trader.
    No I won't, I'll actually evade your AI perks though you would still land Tranq+SU+CS. The Soldier will still perk me if topgeared, but I can live with that. The enf I can kite around, and there would be maybe 2 enf twinks ingame that are able to actually perk me - given that I have around 2.25k evadeclose defrating. Not completely sure about the Trader, but 99% of them suck and I wipe the floor with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esqi View Post
    You need to get ya facts straight, mimc doc does not have 2100 ar. Sure they may have decent hp, but its either hp or ar, not both.
    They do if you count AAO twice.. or no Agent in Mimic Doc would be able to perk me.
    Lupusceleri L220/30/70 Agent -- Advisor of Spartans -- equip endgame AR setup endgame def setup <3 Azs wearer of Cheree's pants
    Arrowsmith -- Arafellin -- Alphacenta -- Aesculapias -- Wolfseye -- Lysdexic


    TL5 enf twink: im out those MPs are to overpowered

    crattey: The Balance Discussion forum. Where common sense goes to die.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Lupusceleri View Post
    I know, and I'm fine with that, but is it too much to ask not to be insta-killed when that Agent presses Q and 1234 on me? I wouldn't care so much if the agent took, say, 15 or 20 seconds to take me down (which is what not landing AI perks comes down to).



    No I won't, I'll actually evade your AI perks though you would still land Tranq+SU+CS. The Soldier will still perk me if topgeared, but I can live with that. The enf I can kite around, and there would be maybe 2 enf twinks ingame that are able to actually perk me - given that I have around 2.25k evadeclose defrating. Not completely sure about the Trader, but 99% of them suck and I wipe the floor with them.



    They do if you count AAO twice.. or no Agent in Mimic Doc would be able to perk me.
    Well then if your not perked didnt we just settle the whole agent dispute? Something the devs have already determined to be faulty which is x2 AAO check?

    Agents alpha only looks huge because those 2 perks (feast/fuzz) fit into their alpha so well but elimiante the x2 AAO check which will already happen and then it will be a new story at tl5. And if your running with 2.1k def most agents in enf will perk you but all you have to do is stun after armor piercing shot and then the agent can only use AS/CS. :P

  12. #92
    First off some self-buffed numbers for this setup, the one I am using right now:

    - 691 AAD, including 47 from a TL5 tower.
    - 1571 EvadeClose, including a QL250 contract.
    - 1459 DodgeRange, including a QL250 contract.
    - 1281 DuckExp.
    - 1229 NanoResist (NR0).
    - 1529 NanoResist (NR1).

    Current static defratings:

    - 2262 evade def
    - 2150 dodge def

    Literally the only improvement possible in the setup I am using is 2x iGoC (way too expensive) instead of a Thin pad and a JAME pad, that would net me 40 AAD but I'd lose 15 EvadeClose and 40 NanoResist.

    Doing so lands me at static defratings of:

    - 2287 evade def
    - 2190 dodge def

    I could also shift my focus away from EvadeClose and RunSpeed (maintaining an as high as possible RS is essential for a MP), and grab an additional 81 dodge def at the cost of 114 evade def and 153 runspeed. Items added: QL254 Scout's Boots, Dalja Skirt, and Premium Bio-Energy Shield. Static defratings for this scenario:

    - 2173
    - 2271 dodge def

    Quote Originally Posted by agentwolve View Post
    {Edited by Prevention: Post removed}
    Thanks but no, you are wrong. Siukon still has around 10k hp while maintaining enough AR to perk my MP through 2.15k+ dodge def. Hence why I have been saying since the FIRST post I made in this thread that the AI perks shouldn't check double AAO anymore and for the rest peoples should leave the agent alpha alone.

    Also, I suppose you'll have to explain me what I'm doing wrong with my MP? Please enlighten me as to what I'm supposed to do to survive 4* 30% cap and possibly a regular+fling in around a 3 seconds timewindow? Oh, and no using a Free Movement is not an option.. I need to use my First Aid stim to heal myself if I want to stand the slightest chance of surviving that much caps.

    Quote Originally Posted by viktory22 View Post
    Well then if your not perked didnt we just settle the whole agent dispute? Something the devs have already determined to be faulty which is x2 AAO check?

    Agents alpha only looks huge because those 2 perks (feast/fuzz) fit into their alpha so well but elimiante the x2 AAO check which will already happen and then it will be a new story at tl5. And if your running with 2.1k def most agents in enf will perk you but all you have to do is stun after armor piercing shot and then the agent can only use AS/CS. :P
    Stuns do not land on a 2k NR agent in mimic enf.
    Last edited by Prevention; Jun 21st, 2010 at 17:50:17.
    Lupusceleri L220/30/70 Agent -- Advisor of Spartans -- equip endgame AR setup endgame def setup <3 Azs wearer of Cheree's pants
    Arrowsmith -- Arafellin -- Alphacenta -- Aesculapias -- Wolfseye -- Lysdexic


    TL5 enf twink: im out those MPs are to overpowered

    crattey: The Balance Discussion forum. Where common sense goes to die.

  13. #93
    Well either way, you can eliminate the x2 AAO check but good agents in AR setups will perk you. all it would do is eliminate the 90% of agents with 1600 AR and FP doc.

    Still x2 AAO should be removed since its generic perks every1 is complaining about.
    2nd, an agent in fp enf with 2k nr is dangerous yes but can be countered very easy by other high damage professions. MP's get enough evades now at tl5 as do other professions the answer is either add more evade items or make AAO check once.

    But either way in my max AR seutp without towers i reach roughly 2.4k AR (2395 iirc). Which still means Agents have the ability to perk you. Just means they have to go out of their way and no more FP doc

  14. #94
    why do u think its the generic perks peopel are complaining about... its the complete agent alpha with stun and snare and initdebuff etc that people are whining about not the 2 AI perks that hardly does any dmg.
    Moonbolt - 220/26/something. Trox Enf RK1 General of Hells Heroes.
    Renswind - 220/21/67 solitus trader.
    Moonkiss - 219/21/something opifex shade.
    Mooncloud - 150/18/somethin solitus MA.

  15. #95
    They have already said double AAO check is going to get removed from AI perklines and that Concussive Shot will change to Rifle+AAO. That means even the most AR twinked Mimic Enforcer agents with Challenger running will be around 2k-2.1k AR (and thats for all perking). So good MPs and Crats for example will be unperkable. Or good trader after 1 drain. Or Acrobat profs pretty much all the time. Concussive Shot will be hitting like 1k dmg too in pvp.

    So instead of crying nerf here, people could just realise that the current suggestion have already nerffed perk alphaing agents. Mimic enforcers will be pretty much useless against any evaders and will be forced to other setups (doc/solja/trader).

    But in meanwhile, please feel free to "Waah Waah Waah!" more.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Animistic View Post
    They have already said double AAO check is going to get removed from AI perklines and that Concussive Shot will change to Rifle+AAO. That means even the most AR twinked Mimic Enforcer agents with Challenger running will be around 2k-2.1k AR (and thats for all perking). So good MPs and Crats for example will be unperkable. Or good trader after 1 drain. Or Acrobat profs pretty much all the time. Concussive Shot will be hitting like 1k dmg too in pvp.

    So instead of crying nerf here, people could just realise that the current suggestion have already nerffed perk alphaing agents. Mimic enforcers will be pretty much useless against any evaders and will be forced to other setups (doc/solja/trader).

    But in meanwhile, please feel free to "Waah Waah Waah!" more.
    Yeah, but we would like a quick pre-balance fix, you know, like BR and GTH one.
    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

    MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by -Klod- View Post
    Yeah, but we would like a quick pre-balance fix, you know, like BR and GTH one.
    Not before i get my 8th solo title on tl5 agent. Around 1k kills to go...

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonbolt View Post
    why do u think its the generic perks peopel are complaining about... its the complete agent alpha with stun and snare and initdebuff etc that people are whining about not the 2 AI perks that hardly does any dmg.
    Because anyone who understands agents knows AS/FS/CS/Fuzz/Feast is the beast way to alpha quickly. Yea sure our long alpha adds 1 more perk in there but it needs 2 other perks to be running to be effective. So before you scream nerf at entire alpha which in reality if you subtract the generic perks becomes very slow...

    And your very wrong seeing that this post was started about an alpha which contained 2 AI perks. Most agent alphas dont include Pinpoint strike because to make it effective you have to stand there for 4sec (iirc) and take all the abuse from others not to mention most agents in FP doc cant land pinpoint strike because it doesnt count AAO twice.

    Learn the facts of the thing you complain about before you scream nerf. Knowing the agent alpha would also help you understand how to block it

    P.S. I guess that means you think enfs and MA's are completely OP because of their init debuffs or docs with ubt or crats with theirs?
    And if you seriously complain that a profession gets a stun... well that just shows that here to flame ... because other professions have stuns or stun like actions at TL5
    Last edited by viktory22; Jun 21st, 2010 at 19:02:23.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by viktory22 View Post
    And your very wrong seeing that this post was started about an alpha which contained 2 AI perks. Most agent alphas dont include Pinpoint strike because to make it effective you have to stand there for 4sec (iirc) and take all the abuse from others not to mention most agents in FP doc cant land pinpoint strike because it doesnt count AAO twice.
    What I personally do on my TL7 Agent after executing Soften Up, is instantly queueing Armor Piercing Shot and a bunch of other damage perks, then run around a corner while the perks are being stupidly slow. When they're done stacking up, I come back and do the specials to complete the alpha. A TL7 Agent alpha takes a lot longer to execute than a TL5 one though, so what I'm doing might be a bit extreme for you.

    But yeah, Pinpoint Strike not landing vs a lot of professions isn't that much of a problem when your AS and AI perks relatively hurt them a lot more than the high hp profs.

    Quote Originally Posted by viktory22 View Post
    Learn the facts of the thing you complain about before you scream nerf. Knowing the agent alpha would also help you understand how to block it


    And if you seriously complain that a profession gets a stun... well that just shows that here to flame ... because other professions have stuns or stun like actions at TL5
    I know the Agent alpha and profession inside out, though I still can't block it on a TL5 MP. When I'm on my Agent and have to block another Agent's alpha.. now that is another matter. Easy with a stunperk at the right time.
    Lupusceleri L220/30/70 Agent -- Advisor of Spartans -- equip endgame AR setup endgame def setup <3 Azs wearer of Cheree's pants
    Arrowsmith -- Arafellin -- Alphacenta -- Aesculapias -- Wolfseye -- Lysdexic


    TL5 enf twink: im out those MPs are to overpowered

    crattey: The Balance Discussion forum. Where common sense goes to die.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Lupusceleri View Post
    ...But yeah, Pinpoint Strike not landing vs a lot of professions isn't that much of a problem when your AS and AI perks relatively hurt them a lot more than the high hp profs...
    I understand you get this but what im saying is imagine the x2 AAO perks where nerfed. Then agents will have a diffucult time executing their entire alpha on the tl5 evade professions. So its not a matter of nerfing the whole alpha which is what people want.

    A tl5 agent will struggle to land pinpoint on most targets who are high evade professions.

    I don't wanna see an entire nerf in fact TL5 will be a lot closer once x2 aao is taken out. People just dont realize that those are the perks which are the problem which ofc anyone can perk and use. And many people don't realize its a known issue and has already been addressed...

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