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Thread: LLTS or melee nerf ?

  1. #1

    LLTS or melee nerf ?

    actaully, i don't like the way this is spiraling into a major melee nerf. ( i started out saying MA nerf, but realized it's all melee classes that would be affected)

    i personally don't use a scope on my ma, but that's not the point. the point is i started playing this game and stayed in it for as long as i have because you could do or use any item or weapon your heart desired.

    telling me i can't use an LLTS because i'm a ma is pure bologna !
    telling me i crit too much cause i'm an ma is really stupid, of course i crit, i have a crit buff. if all other proffesions were meant to crit as much as an ma, they would all have crit buffs too.

    what upsets me the most however is that IF i decided to use an llts the way they are now, where am i going to get one ? i'm not, pure and simple. they don't drop, and they don't sell for a reasonable amount of money. that is where the problem lies. a few people have these items, and nobody else can get them. the few people that do have one want to stay at the top of the crit ladder and the only way to do that now is to nerf everybody else.

    just take them out or make em drop, its really a very simple solution.

    if they won't make them drop, which seems to be the direction we are heading in, then take them out completely. the majority of the player base, new players included have been forced to use VE's because LLTS was seen as too overpowering. I really don't get the reasoning behind even letting them stay in game if that really is the case.

    by keeping all the old LLTS in game when ve's were introduced, what that says to me is they either aren't really overpowering (i think they are) or that funcom decided that the few people that own them should be at the top of the food chain.

    flame on people, it still doesn't mean that you're right.

  2. #2
    It is more of a nerf for us non-ma melee's than it even is for MA. If this is an MA balance issue then it is NOT going to do the job.

    MA's still get their self crit buffs
    I am Dnastyone Official Broom pusher for The Professionals
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    I would have to say that this is an typicall example of how an flame should not look like. You need to think things through and calm down before you try to write an flame... Im sorry but I would rate this flame with an 1. Aggression is to high, grammar and cursing isnt to well planned... Maybe he has an point somewhere in there but I dont even want to find it. - Centurion3

    ROFLOL

  3. #3
    i thought the new proposed nerf only affected psy init not melee init. From what i read it only affects MA attack users.

  4. #4
    I'm melee, and it won't affect me at all. Main reason? I consider crits a bonus, and plan my fights from NOT doing crits at all.

  5. #5
    Originally posted by Snublefot
    I'm melee, and it won't affect me at all. Main reason? I consider crits a bonus, and plan my fights from NOT doing crits at all.
    Amen! lol
    chars.
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  6. #6
    Oh! Included in battle plans for those hard battles is at least one doc Don't need crits to gain aggro

  7. #7
    actually, you people are all missing my point altogether.

    i'm not going to be greatly affected by this nerf either. i'm mad because now i do not have the option of doing or using anything in the game that i so choose.

    now we aren't playing the same skill based game that i started playing last december, now we are playing a game thats one step away from being just like every other boring cookie cutter game out there . you know, the ones that you all are complaining about and keep listing as being inferior to AO .

    IF i want to play a martial artist that can use any weapon or item in the database, then i'm going to play AO.

    IF i want to play a troll that has to choose one out of 3 weapons and use that weapon only forever and ever, then i will go play DAoC.

    now are you following me? this nerf will not affect me now, it will affect me if i change my mind and want to try something different from what i've been doing for 195 boring levels.
    Last edited by Alli; Oct 9th, 2002 at 12:15:24.

  8. #8
    So you can't use some of the crit based items... You know what? I would really love to have one of those QL200 MA only pyjamases. One of those that add to nano skills. I would in fact kill to get an item like that on my adventurer!

  9. #9
    right, exactly my point.

    everybody should be able to use every item in the game. level and proffesion should play absolutely no role whatsoever in your decision either, let us make uber or gimped toons as we see fit.

    i don't care if i see and adv. running around in a pair of my red pajama's. if he decides that's the way to go, then so be it.

    so what if that nt wants to use a claw...if that's the way he wants to play, so be it.

    if that lvl 20 enforcer has 100 ncu and wants a perception buff to get on a ql 250 VE, hey, good job !

    level/prof/breed restrictions are the stupidest things to ever come into this game. instead of fixing it, FC has decided to listen to all the whiners with high lvl scopes, that don't want to be equal to everyone else, and is going to nerf everyone else even more

    i said it before and i'll say it again. i don't care that some have the LLTs and a 15% crit chance, what i do care about is that nobody else has a chance of getting one! if they still dropped in game this would be a very non-issue.

  10. #10
    But you do care that they put a penalty for melee and phys init on the same llts? Or on other crit enhancers that are sort of supposed to go for ranged attack?

    This is not a level req or breed req or prof req. Its a skill impact. And you wanted a skill based game right?

    You can even equip one of the llts post nerf. But will get a hit on you inits. But thats the tradeoff right? And thats one of the ingredients that make a good game, tradeoffs. You will as an MA still be the one prof with the highest crit chance in the game.

  11. #11
    everyone seems to be either missing my point, or just plain ignoring it.

    actually, i have 2 points i'm trying to make.

    1. if you want to play a cookie cutter game that tells you what you can and cannot use, go play DAoC. if i want to use a shotgun or river with my MA and you don't like it, i don't care. it's none of your business how i play my character. (personally i wouldn't use either, too gimped but if i chose to, that's my decision, not yours)

    2. LLTS no longer drop, making it impossible to get one . no, don't even tell me you can buy one cause they are for sale everywhere. since i wasn't a part of the credit dupping exploit, i don't have the 100 mil + credits you need to buy one of these things.(even if i did have 100mil and got one LLTS, what about the new people to the game, how will they ever compete?) now, can you tell me in rational terms that actually make a reasonable amount of sense why some people should still have these unbalancing items when others can not ever even come close?

    read other posts i make in these forums, there are only 2 options to the LLTs. either make them drop again so anyone can get one. or eliminate them . of course, seems that we are going the unforseen 3rd route, keep them as uber items that only the elite few can have, and in addition, nerf everyone else even further.

  12. #12
    Originally posted by Snublefot
    You can even equip one of the llts post nerf. But will get a hit on you inits. But thats the tradeoff right? And thats one of the ingredients that make a good game, tradeoffs. You will as an MA still be the one prof with the highest crit chance in the game.
    hmm, don't see your point here bro. lets use some actual numbers from the buffs and items people actually use.

    forget the crat crit buff, when is the last time you ever spent any time whatsoever looking for a crat to crit buff you ?

    1. soldier 15% LLTS 4% TTS 7% mop = 26%
    2. MA 24% uvc 4% TTS = 28%

    hmm, not a very big difference. sure am glad i'm one of the so very overpowered ungodly uber MA's now. (how do you turn sarcasm off ?)

    oops, guess i forgot that all of you just assume that every MA is running around using a 15% LLTS. even if that were true, which it isn't even close to being, that ma has to fight on full agg all the time if he wants to have a chance at hitting often enough to get a crit. do you know what that means? full agg = no evades, so guess what, that ma is giving you a bonus and letting you hit and crit him much more often not to mention at full agg you have no nano resist whatsoever.

    oh, flurry of blows you say? hmm, well lets think about that a second too. first, ranged users can use flurry of blow too. sure it adds to your crit, for a VERY short period of time, can't be used for another whay, 5 minutes? and guess what, opens you up to more crits cause it screws your evades even more.

    personally, i don't see how 28% is so much more overpowered than 26%.

    and in that example, doesn't have to be a soldier, what if it was a trader with 26% chance? jeez, with drains and 26% chance, i can't believe you don't want to make sure traders can't use scopes too.

  13. #13
    i dont understand why ranged users should get the crit bonuses, and not the melees... if anything, melees should get the best crit items.
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  14. #14
    Originally posted by garzini

    1. soldier 15% LLTS 4% TTS 7% mop = 26%
    2. MA 24% uvc 4% TTS = 28%

    hmm, not a very big difference. sure am glad i'm one of the so very overpowered ungodly uber MA's now. (how do you turn sarcasm off ?)

    oops, guess i forgot that all of you just assume that every MA is running around using a 15% LLTS. even if that were true, which it isn't even close to being, that ma has to fight on full agg all the time if he wants to have a chance at hitting often enough to get a crit.
    Gee... conveniently, you forgot to mention that the soldier needs to fight at close to full agg also.

    The problem is this configuration:

    MA: 24% UVC, 15% scope, 4% TTS: 43% crit bonus.

    Add a River6 or Krutt to that, and you have a serious flaw in balance.

    Simple solution:

    Make MA self-crit buffs ONLY APPLY TO FISTS. Then MAs who choose to use high-crit weapons will be in the same boat as everyone else.

    For those of you who are going to whine about RP...

    "Universal Vulnerability Compendium: Uploads the contents of the Universal Vulnerability Compendium into the mind of the martial artist. This compendium contains a list of spots vulnerable to the martial artist's special fist strikes, increasing the chance of a critical strike with fists by 24%."

    edit: Should also work for MAs using MA weapons like claws and taichi.
    Gunned down the young. Now old, crotchety, and back.

  15. #15
    Originally posted by Kiryat-Dharin


    Gee... conveniently, you forgot to mention that the soldier needs to fight at close to full agg also.

    The problem is this configuration:

    MA: 24% UVC, 15% scope, 4% TTS: 43% crit bonus.

    Add a River6 or Krutt to that, and you have a serious flaw in balance.

    Simple solution:

    Make MA self-crit buffs ONLY APPLY TO FISTS. Then MAs who choose to use high-crit weapons will be in the same boat as everyone else.

    For those of you who are going to whine about RP...

    "Universal Vulnerability Compendium: Uploads the contents of the Universal Vulnerability Compendium into the mind of the martial artist. This compendium contains a list of spots vulnerable to the martial artist's special fist strikes, increasing the chance of a critical strike with fists by 24%."

    edit: Should also work for MAs using MA weapons like claws and taichi.
    gee, you also forgot to mention that the soldier fighting at full agg has tms up and isn't taking any damage either way.

    if you think an ma with a river is overpowered you are just being a fool. an ma with a river will never kill you unless you let him. besidese, the river is a different story altogether and i wouldn't mind seeing them deleted anyway.

    quit crying nerf knucklehead and learn to live with the fact that you will never get the same crit % as an ma, YOU WERE NEVER INTENDED TO !

  16. #16
    But Garzini, you are ignoring one simple fact. This is not about taking away from the skill based part of the game. Its not about slapping a prof only on a weapon or tool. Its about reducing the overall crit chance for players in the game. It not actually news that FC is working on reducing the crit chances...

    And, you do ignore another fact. While not every MA run around with a 15% scope, does every soldier run around with a 15% scope? Simple answer is no. The highes scope a soldier can ever plan to get is a 8% VE... And only at high levels, since the way to get it on is a high perception buff, and hmmm, they do have a level req.

    The funny thing is that after the last months changes that where to "drive away most of AO's players", I see more players online then ever... AO is going in the right direction, and this change is another step in the right direction.

  17. #17
    Originally posted by garzini
    quit crying nerf knucklehead and learn to live with the fact that you will never get the same crit % as an ma, YOU WERE NEVER INTENDED TO !
    Shouldnt funcom decide what we and you are intended to crit for? Isnt that why they are makeing the changes in the first place?
    "Yesterday we bowed before kings and bent our necks to emperors, today we kneel only before truth"

  18. #18
    Originally posted by Centurion3


    Shouldnt funcom decide what we and you are intended to crit for? Isnt that why they are makeing the changes in the first place?
    Well, the reason originally stated was that players are critting mobs way way too much. I don't recall seeing what qualifies in the way way too much category, nor how this conclusion was evidenced (logs, for example, of many player/NPC combats). Given some of the Funcom posts on the topic since the original post, it would be interesting to see how the whole thing really came around to being significant enough in their view to warrant the current contemplated changes to the game.

  19. #19
    I can care less about LLTS, however, I cannot stand my VE taking away from me. I can tell you this right here that 1hb sux big time without Crits, And sure, Beam users can live without crit chances, but does it make sense that while you have a lower crit chance, Ranged user maintain the same???

  20. #20
    After reading (in some cases, a number of times) every post I've come across on the subject, I'm actually a bit confused about what the 'problem' really is. So, it's not all that easy to see if any of the proposals solve it. But, no, as it now stands, I can't say that I see how it's fair.

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