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Thread: How to Balance Ranged vs Melee

  1. #1

    How to Balance Ranged vs Melee

    3 ideas, all to make melee vs ranged a reasonable proposition in open PVP.


    1. Effective AR vs opponent at different range:

    Effective AR@0-5m range=100% AR ->for all melee attacks, perks, specials
    Effective AR@0-10m range=100% AR ->for all ranged attacks, perks and specials
    Effective AR@10-40m range=95% - 1%/m AR -> for all ranged attacks and specials

    Which is: 95% AR at >10m, 85% at >20m, 65% at >40m.

    2. MOVING TARGET VS STATIC TARGET:

    ALL moving targets recieve +5% to evades to avoid ANY attack, melee or ranged.
    ALL static targets recieve -5% to all evades in the chance to hit.
    All attacks made while moving (in the case of melee) recieve -5% to attack rating,
    Give ability to attack while moving to ranged: -10% AR to ranged units attacking while moving, AS and Full Auto BOTH require 3 seconds to aim.

    Make all modifiers clientside to avoid confusion against multiple attackers.


    3. Changes to runspeed

    First, make all of the phasefronts and yalms have a 1000RS multiplier (to have max speed) and 1second equip time/cast time.
    Second, reduce the max RS to about 1/5 of what it is now
    Third, make Battlestation WAY smaller.
    Last edited by McKnuckleSamwich; May 25th, 2010 at 00:48:50. Reason: redefined.

  2. #2
    Welcome to no thanks!
    Last edited by Techmagos; May 24th, 2010 at 03:25:54. Reason: they nerfed my caps :(
    ~Techmagos -220/30/70 Engi
    ~Aasimi -220/21/xx Agent
    ~Nyrlathotek9 -174/14/xx Sold

    rk1>rk2™

  3. #3
    How about making parry/riposte work and making AS interruptible by melee instead?


  4. #4
    So by your logic, rendering ranged weapons totally useless at anything but melee range is balanced?
    Quote Originally Posted by kesh View Post
    I heard black troxes have a huge nothing.
    Berinda: Assault rifle

    Wenona: SMG

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Berinda View Post
    So by your logic, rendering ranged weapons totally useless at anything but melee range is balanced?
    ever try to hit a moving target?

    ever try to hit a laterally moving target at 20+ meters range?

    with a Scope, and laying down, with a rifle I'd give you a best case scenario 30% chance to hit.

    with a pistol, assault rifle, SMG, 5% for a trained professional.

    I just finished watching a series of war documentaries, and it seems there is 1 single factor which determines the odds for getting hit with a bullet: moving.

    Care to try to argue this?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    Care to try to argue this?
    bro, its 30000 years in the future, and all technology is infused with nanobots. guided bullets, targeting computers and cybernetic implants certainly would make it a lot easier.
    ~Techmagos -220/30/70 Engi
    ~Aasimi -220/21/xx Agent
    ~Nyrlathotek9 -174/14/xx Sold

    rk1>rk2™

  7. #7
    The general idea is interesting. The values are totally over the top. I could see values varying by 2 or 3 % per band rather than by 20%.

    X

  8. #8
    hey heres a thought: make the penalties vary for each prof.

    you really think a sniper is going to have an easier time shooting someone point blank? it makes sense that rifle-equipped toons (such as agents) would get a benefit from being at the longer range!
    now, pistol or shotgun equipped toons, sure, they should be closer. assault rifle, SMG, give them a medium range sweet spot.
    I can see though McKnuckle, since both the toons in your sig are clearly melee, that you are biased, and im not surprised your "suggestion" is so extreme..
    ~Techmagos -220/30/70 Engi
    ~Aasimi -220/21/xx Agent
    ~Nyrlathotek9 -174/14/xx Sold

    rk1>rk2™

  9. #9
    Dumb suggestion.

    And stop bringing in realistic comparisons to a MMO, those dont work and make you sound even more stupid.

  10. #10
    Oh great so now basically crats should go melee.... since we have one really low AR.
    You guys are just brillant.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Techmagos View Post
    bro, its 30000 years in the future, and all technology is infused with nanobots. guided bullets, targeting computers and cybernetic implants certainly would make it a lot easier.
    Trying to hit targets that can move faster than bullets can, to dodge them. Its the only reason melee exists in this game. In 'reality' theres reasons why guns are used in warfare over swords.

    Yes, its hard to hit a moving target with a submachine gun. I'd still pick the SMG @ 20 metres vs the guy with the knife. You can also kind of fire faster than you can stab.

    It makes sense, but its a bad concept. A far better way would be to simply allow melee classes to catch ranged ones using some player skill, like it was before the strafe nerf changes
    Don't be lonely anymore.

    Look at your post, now back at mine. Now back to your post, now back at mine. Sadly, yours isn't mine, but if you stopped trolling and started posting legitimate comments it could look like mine. Look down, back up, where are you? You're scrolling through posts, reading the posts your posts could look like. Back at mine, it's a reply saying something you want to hear. Look again, my reply is now diamonds. Anything is possible when you think before you post.

  12. #12
    im all for melee getting *something* to make it more fair. i just feel like i need to tear down the bad ideas. making ranged-based penalties for weapons that *should* be able to fire a mile away accurately is just retarded.
    ~Techmagos -220/30/70 Engi
    ~Aasimi -220/21/xx Agent
    ~Nyrlathotek9 -174/14/xx Sold

    rk1>rk2™

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Techmagos View Post
    im all for melee getting *something* to make it more fair. i just feel like i need to tear down the bad ideas. making ranged-based penalties for weapons that *should* be able to fire a mile away accurately is just retarded.
    Try hit me with full-auto from 20m distance in real life...wondering how many bullets you will land.
    Try AS me while running (or just stop for 1second and AS) in real life.

    Then we can talk what is retarted.


    PS: i have 220 soldier and many times posted something about soldiers....so do not try insult me with "QQ"
    -o--oOo--o--
    Yama*007
    -o--oOo--o--

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by XtremTech View Post
    The general idea is interesting. The values are totally over the top. I could see values varying by 2 or 3 % per band rather than by 20%.

    X
    They might be over the top, but, the idea spawned from another thread i was reading.

    The point of it is that melee profs (MA and keeper and shade) are almost 100% completely screwed in the ass by crats, agents and fixers, for the sole reason that there is not one prof in game who can afford to use 10 perks (AKA CHOOSE), spatial displacement.

    As a result, most melee classes are super vulnerable to ranged profs, when I say super vulnerable, I mean that if you put a MA or keeper or shade against an agent or crat or fixer in open PVP you're looking at a very very low chance of an even fight, even once, JUST because of the time it takes to get out of roots+snares.

    The point isn't to be over the top, the point is to bring some semblance of balance to Open PVP for ranged and melee.

    I agree they could be scaled down a bit.

    but not 3%, thats too low. it needs to be like 1% per meter and starting at 5% loss at 5m.

    that would be 5% at 5m, 10% at 10m, 40% at 40m. Which actually isn't too bad.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by EIS View Post
    Try hit me with full-auto from 20m distance in real life...wondering how many bullets you will land.
    In real life, if i had an assault rifle, and was firing at you from 20m away, you would be dead. the reason? You are not a scifi evade assassin, and I have a lot of experience with firearms. EIS, you try so hard, and its just fail fail fail.
    ~Techmagos -220/30/70 Engi
    ~Aasimi -220/21/xx Agent
    ~Nyrlathotek9 -174/14/xx Sold

    rk1>rk2™

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Techmagos View Post
    In real life, if i had an assault rifle, and was firing at you from 20m away, you would be dead. the reason? You are not a scifi evade assassin, and I have a lot of experience with firearms. EIS, you try so hard, and its just fail fail fail.
    Somehow you forgot consider armor. And from 20m you will not land many bullets from FA. Lets say maybe 5 ? Maybe less when you will be running and trying FA. So i bet i will be not dead with armor on me.
    -o--oOo--o--
    Yama*007
    -o--oOo--o--

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by EIS View Post
    Somehow you forgot consider armor. And from 20m you will not land many bullets from FA. Lets say maybe 5 ? Maybe less when you will be running and trying FA. So i bet i will be not dead with armor on me.
    yeah, You have class 3 or 4 body armor. because civilians can buy it legally. oh wait! they cant! EIS, welcome to a new low of fail
    ~Techmagos -220/30/70 Engi
    ~Aasimi -220/21/xx Agent
    ~Nyrlathotek9 -174/14/xx Sold

    rk1>rk2™

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Techmagos View Post
    yeah, You have class 3 or 4 body armor. because civilians can buy it legally. oh wait! they cant! EIS, welcome to a new low of fail
    I understand....you are running with assault rifle in your town legally. Ok...you have right i have failed.
    -o--oOo--o--
    Yama*007
    -o--oOo--o--

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by EIS View Post
    I understand....you are running with assault rifle in your town legally. Ok...you have right i have failed.
    you clearly dont understand *anything*!

    the analogy of me shooting an assault rifle at you was *yours* originally! lmfao

    eventually i will get tired of making you look dumb, and ill go to sleep.
    ~Techmagos -220/30/70 Engi
    ~Aasimi -220/21/xx Agent
    ~Nyrlathotek9 -174/14/xx Sold

    rk1>rk2™

  20. #20
    Lets clear it up a bit.

    I said you cannot hit 27bullet FA from 20M. You will miss with many bullets. Your reaction was i will be dead if assalt rifle will hit me. I said i will have armor. You said i cannot have it legally. I said you cannot have ass.rifle legally.

    Thank for your opinions.
    -o--oOo--o--
    Yama*007
    -o--oOo--o--

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