Gaute's word on LLTS and criticals

[Cheddar]

It's a start. An alternate possibility to consider is to make nothing stack at all.

As pointed above, some classes get shafted by this. You should accompany this nerfage with a complete reassessment of how each class is to do damage. Right now, some like Engineers are teetering on the edge of uselessness.

A nice trade-off here would be a top down rebalancing of weapons too. Most of the weapons in the game are not viable choices and revamping them would go a long way towards appeasing the masses.

[Cz]

Originally posted by Corianin
One unanswered question: Will (E)LLTS start dropping again, or will VE be the only ones dropping?

I don't think there's any plans on letting them drop again, but I'll bring it up as a suggestion.

[Phione]

Melee/MA users other than MAs currently have about the same crit chance. However, with LLTS gone, and, possibly VEs as well, we'll have... hmm... 5% more crit for 1/10 of the time, and 15 less crit for 9/10 of the time. This does not even consider the fact that no one is able to use a ql 200 Flurry, and anyone is able to equip a ql 200 LLTS.

[____________Corianin]

Originally posted by Cz

I don't think there's any plans on letting them drop again, but I'll bring it up as a suggestion.

Well, whether to do it or not depends on what is you stand on LLTS in general. If you feel they should remain rare, don't let them drop again. If you feel everyone should be able to obtain it ingame, let them drop again.

The answer will probably affect current prices a lot as the marked now calculated with a nerf of some sort, but not a reintroducement.

[Phione]

While you're at it, why don't you nerf melee users out of TIM scope as well?? It's a scope, you know?
The matter of fact is the Scopes in game isn't something you put on weapon, like everyone (as well as FC) implied. It's a form of anayizer you put on to assist you at aiming. It goes on your face!

[Crestfire]

Originally posted by Cz
Hi everybody. Word from Gaute on criticals and the LLTS.

Does he even play his own game ???

Summing this together you get 62% for Martiial Artist and 49% for everyone else. This is WAY-WAY too high for the system to handle without changes.

He's making it sounds like the whole AO population walks around with 49% crit chance, that's FAR from the thruth, in fact a very small amount of players ever experienced 49% crit chance.

Flurry of blows lasts 15 SECONDS, and it locks 150 SECONDS that's a crit buff for 10% of the time playing.

It's nearly impossible (at least NO ONE does it) to use a 20% flurry, so again you are wrong Gaute.

Oh and you're right about the crats, I hired a crat to full time follow me around to supply me with his crit buff *sarcasm* Half the time I'm teamed with a crat, I don't even have the buff running because he was behind a wall when it refreshed.

Also, please don't give us that "it's meant to be that way" nonsense. I'm not going to argue about how much sense it makes for a melee user to use a scope. Fact is, it's meant the be BALANCED, go have a look at melee weapons, except the beam, and some extremely rare enf weapons, they aren't any better than ranged weapons. Besides, using a 15% scope with a beam is even now a bad idea, since you'll hit so slow you end up with lower damage.

You can put -10000 ranged inits on everything if you think that will solve the crit problem, but Ithaca's will still fast.

[Spluggorth]

ELLTS: Will still be the same kind of Item you have today IF you are using a Ranged Weapon, Remember this is a SCOPE and was intended to be used as such.

to all the Melee users out there: YES you can still use your scopes i belive, with your ICE flashpoints Alpha in pvp so stop yer Whining! the ELLTS will however NOT give you crittincrease when you remove it and go Melee.

summary of Opinion: NODROP Item

Lets Face it Fellow Gamers....Crittincrease in the Near 40-60 Range is plain Silly. I totally think FC is Justifying this change, for ONCE!

However FC i dont understand your thinking...

Give "Flurry of Blows" and "Eye of the Hunter" (Adv only version of FoB) a massive decrease on Long Range Initative
isnt it just easier to remove it from Ranged weapons alltogether?

2. Give Martial Artists Self Crit buffs a massive decrease on Long Range Initiative. (This does not affect bows, as they use Physical Prowess Initiative - same as the martial arts attack).
Here i would like to refer to MA description...

The Martial Artist is the master of unarmed combat, bows and thrown weapons. They shy away from the technological weaponry of their time, and prefer the spiritual teachings of ancient cultures.
Anyone REad Extreme Low Light Targeting Scope in there?? :P or ICE / Shotgun for that matter! This is how it was intended, Using ICE or such with UVC should be entitled Exploit of System Mechanics!!!

now then to Conclusion:
Very nice Work Mr Godager, nowever i must note that there is one possible flaw in this...
In order for this to Be somewhat Equall to both Ranged and Melee users, you really need to Remove the Activation of Flurry and have it a Constant Active item just like the LLTS.

This is the future ONLY way for Melee users other than MAs to be on "par" with the rest of the gamers. MA docs and MA engis that also utilize the Phys init shouldt be made to suffer from this.
Sure one could think that an MA doc choose it for themselves, but needless to say and Engi atleast has a Feature that makes them into phys init users ( Slayerdroid Transferance)

so in conclusion Mr Godager, Make those 2 items similar with each other, just one for the ranged community, and one for the Close Combat community, place them in the Same Util Slot so Exploiting by using both will be cut down ( unless you switch in combat, but that takes time)

SO this way All ranged users will feel nothing. All Melee users other than MAs will feel nothing ( since you have a LLTS called "Flurry of blows" that does jsut the same thing your old LLTS did, yes you have to sell your ELLTS and get a flurry i know=( ) And Exploiting MAs with ICEs gets a slap on the fingers ..Great!!

Carry on Subjects, Be nice

[Phione]

again, this is not the 21th century, it's the 265th or something century. Just because an item is using a certain name doesn't mean the item is EXACTLY identical.
For example, when you say "hey, let's get a wagon" does it mean you're getting an oxen wagon?? No...

[Crestfire]

His solution isn't even a solution for the problem.

According to Gaute:

Problem: Overall crit chance is too high

Solution: put heavy init penalties

This will mainly affect SLOW weapons, Ithaca's and MA's will still own the place, even more now, since all other weapons will become a lot slower. People will still crit as much as they did before, wasn't that what you want to fix in the first place. And no, no matter how much you decrease inits, it will never change damage on fast weapons significant enough to call it a solution.

[Phione]

Even if you put -65535 init on the Scope, it won't do a thing because it'll only hurt the slow weapon users, actual weapons that uses crit chances (Ithaca, River 6, Raid, and more) will simply hit at base speed, which is fast enough.
You'll just screw more ppl without solving the problem.

[Dhurdahl]

Originally posted by Emperor Prozek Give "Flurry of Blows" and "Eye of the Hunter" (Adv only version of FoB) a massive decrease on Long Range Initative
isnt it just easier to remove it from Ranged weapons alltogether?[/B]

Most prob since that would need a game engine change, just not a db tweak as the suggested changes are.
BUT it would be a much much better solution since it stops all forms of taking advantage of the crit % by weapon type swapping!


Might want to base equip time on inits in some way also

The Martial Artist is the master of unarmed combat, bows and thrown weapons. They shy away from the technological weaponry of their time, and prefer the spiritual teachings of ancient cultures.
Anyone REad Extreme Low Light Targeting Scope in there?? :P or ICE / Shotgun for that matter! This is how it was intended, Using ICE or such with UVC should be entitled Exploit of System Mechanics!!!

ROFL, yeah.... a bit harsh but i agree there

[Spluggorth]

Originally posted by Crestfall
His solution isn't even a solution for the problem.

According to Gaute:

Problem: Overall crit chance is too high

Solution: put heavy init penalties

This will mainly affect SLOW weapons, Ithaca's and MA's will still own the place, even more now, since all other weapons will become a lot slower. People will still crit as much as they did before, wasn't that what you want to fix in the first place. And no, no matter how much you decrease inits, it will never change damage on fast weapons significant enough to call it a solution.

Agreed, I would think instead of adding heavy Init penalties to actually totally Remove the possibilty to use it in ranged / close combat. This would also minimize the Exploit chance to as your example equipp a very very fast weapon and still use it as before

[Dhurdahl]

Originally posted by Phione
Even if you put -65535 init on the Scope, it won't do a thing because it'll only hurt the slow weapon users, actual weapons that uses crit chances (Ithaca, River 6, Raid, and more) will simply hit at base speed, which is fast enough.
You'll just screw more ppl without solving the problem.

So, you are saying that a weapon can't get slower then it's original base values. right?

If so, then thats a huge bug that should be fixed. A 2/2 weapon with -600 in init should become a 4/3 (for 1 sec 300/600 in inits right? can't remember)

[Phione]

Don't ask me, ask the Dev ppl...
nah, I can answer this right here for you... it's because it'll make init debuff from certain professions too powerful, and have the slow weapon user even more worthless in some situaition.

[____________Corianin]

well, nanos get slower than their base casting time when hit by for instance a doc-initdebuff. Doesn't weapons get affected the same way ?

[Phione]

I believe when getting hit by init debuff, your nano gets slower untill reaching the base casting speed... not 100% sure.

[Animoy]

On the engi problem:

Give us a newquest, The Tobaco Quest!

First part is to collect parts so we can BUILD a tobaco harvester.
Then we run off to some bush and use our beautifull machine to harvest tobaco plants. Then we BUILD a cigarette making machine, and make a pack of Lucky Strike cigarettes, that we can use to get +3% crit

Oh..and im acctually serious.

[Darkbane]

Originally posted by Phione
Even if you put -65535 init on the Scope, it won't do a thing because it'll only hurt the slow weapon users, actual weapons that uses crit chances (Ithaca, River 6, Raid, and more) will simply hit at base speed, which is fast enough.
You'll just screw more ppl without solving the problem.

Errr... NO! As it currently stands, that sort of penalty would massivle reduce your attack speed, and once the init fix is in place, massivly reduce your recharge too.

[Darkbane]

Something for all the MA using non-MAs would be useful too (ie something with a requirement of 'not martial artist').

A HUD or Utility device that interfaces with your hand-eye coordination system and boosts crit chance whilst penalising melee and range initiatives significantly. Such a device should have a 45 second equip/unequip time, as should all such crit enhancing devices.

[Crestfire]

Hmm seems like I was wrong about inits, didn't know they fixed it half so far. So very high negative inits do make you a lot slower ...