Constant Barrage

[Armus]

To sum it up:
- it does not debuff for over 4 times since only enfos require multiple CB.

Err.. Soldier debuff perks debuff 700, CB 3000.

3000/700=4.28

Looks like it's over 4 times more to me. Perhaps you calc differently where you live. Could you explain to us how you do it?

Ok, so let me get this straight, your argument is that it doesn't really debuff 3000 because it's never needed? Haha. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

That 3 times stacking is just people blurring reality to try and get their view adopted.

Sweet, you won't mind if it gets nerfed as I suggested then!

- it does not always land since twinked enfos resist it more often than a blue moon..

So out of 14 classes ONE may sometimes resist this debuff. Coming from an NT that sounds like solid proof this nano needs to get nerfed.

- since cb is a spell, we can't move while casting it, and it stops us from casting while casting it+recharge, which perks don't.

Cool, and I can't cast RI or any other nano while using AMS. I knew this when I rolled a soldier and you knew that NT's cant cast nanos while running.

Also, nts dmg doesn't increase when lowering their opponent defense... it does allow safer landing and using some perks... but so does ar for soldiers.

And?

So no, it isn't more powerful in every single aspect.

What you are saying is that nt's arent more powerful than soldiers in every respect and I agree with that. But the debuff itself IS superior in every way.

- the defense it debuffs is NOT way, WAY lower on every class except enforcers. On most, surely... on the other hand, nt offense is not as high as soldier offense, before the debuff(s).

But relatively it IS higher. And that's what counts. And that's why there is no reason for it to be THIS powerful. You evern said so yourself when you said there is no reason to let it stack.

So lets all just agree that it needs a big, fat nerf.

Thank you.

[Shrubberyman]

what?
Your nukes ignore hp caps as it is, your sacrificing %nano damage in exchange for Combined Scouts which gives you more evades/ar?
PVM/PVP setups are supposed to be different, this goes for every profession.

Yes, every prof sacrifice something for something else, with always their best interest in mind. What was your point again?

A third of your ncu slots to cap nanos in speed and range? Which professions don't use a compiler? And you have nano range increasing nanos? Many professions use those also, like my crat, fixers, some agents, etc?

Use your computer calculator (will be easier than counting on your fingers), check auno and you will see for yourself we still need (in addition to alpha symbs and top nanos) the range increaser to cap the range of *drumrolls, opening the enveloppe, anticipating silence in the public*... CB.

Yet again I ask, where are your sacrifices?

I sacrificed a slot of my account not rolling a sold? (And prolly a minute of my life feeding that whine thread)

[ninst]

Voila. Nerfed by a factor of 3.75 and still the most potent debuff IG.

If NT NR debuffs are supposed to be nerfed down to the ability of a soldier to nerf dodge then we should also nerf soldier defenses to the NT level - lets make AMS last 25 seconds with 3 minutes downtime? Sounds good? And where is my 500 AAD ring?

[-Klod-]

Use your computer calculator (will be easier than counting on your fingers), check auno and you will see for yourself we still need (in addition to alpha symbs and top nanos) the range increaser to cap the range of *drumrolls, opening the enveloppe, anticipating silence in the public*... CB.

You say that like if you actually sacrifice something while using this one.

And where is my 500 AAD ring?

What do you need AAD ring for?

[Parranoid1]

And where is my 500 AAD ring?

/facepalm

{edited by Anarrina: removed personal insult}

Simple, NR is already the weakest defense stat in game (that is the static defense, duck, dodge, evade and NR) as with nano castings AAD isnt checked, where as with the other 3 stats, AAD is added.

So its just straight NR, If HH@B wasnt ingame then the general defenses against nano castings would be stupidly low.

If you want to have HH@B removed, make nanos check AAD, otherwise dont bring up HH@B again because its a stupid point.

[Shrubberyman]

/facepalm

Another idiot complaining about HH@B.

Simple, NR is already the weakest defense stat in game (that is the static defense, duck, dodge, evade and NR) as with nano castings AAD isnt checked, where as with the other 3 stats, AAD is added.

So its just straight NR, If HH@B wasnt ingame then the general defenses against nano castings would be stupidly low.

If you want to have HH@B removed, make nanos check AAD, otherwise dont bring up HH@B again because its a stupid point.

That arguement always surprised me tbh. Seriously, you don't think a ring like HHAB looks incredibly like a band aid for a poorly thought out mechanic? What about, I don't know, get that silly ring out of the way and give more professions access to green NR and profession specific NR gear, in particular those not gifted with top of the game evades and/or heals?

NR might be the weakest defence of sort, nanoskills are also usually the weakest form of offence, because obviously, AAO isn't added either and nanos don't give a better return the more nanoskills you have.

You say that like if you actually sacrifice something while using this one.

Well, yes, a ncu slot and nearlly 3s at the beginning of the fight :/

What do you need AAD ring for?

To offset those stupid Blind resistance items ...

[ninst]

/facepalm

{removed}

Simple, NR is already the weakest defense stat in game (that is the static defense, duck, dodge, evade and NR) as with nano castings AAD isnt checked, where as with the other 3 stats, AAD is added.

Since when only nanos are checked against NR? Perks check both NR and AAD. And HHAB makes it almost impossible to land NR checking perks (excluding double AAO perks) without NR debuffs. That makes NR very strong defense stat in my eyes.

HHAB and NR+AAD checking perks is one of the reasons why CB should not be touched until rebalancing (after which NR checking perks wont check AAD).

[Parranoid1]

Since when only nanos are checked against NR? Perks check both NR and AAD.

I think thats all that needs to be shown to demostrate your stupidity.

That arguement always surprised me tbh. Seriously, you don't think a ring like HHAB looks incredibly like a band aid for a poorly thought out mechanic?

This make sense, and i would probably have to agree, it does look alot like that, but most profs are now dependant on it to have any sort of decent NR levels.

What about, I don't know, get that silly ring out of the way and give more professions access to green NR and profession specific NR gear, in particular those not gifted with top of the game evades and/or heals?

This would be a good way to justify removing HH@B, green skills in NR would pretty much given to all profs with blue NR at the moment to make cover it tho, (rough estimate at increasing from dark blue to green is roughly 450? ... or so) so then profs that arnt as NR gifted would be slightly worse off, and other profs could get some NR speicific gear to make up the rest of the gap, and maybe even exceed it in some cases, possibly at some other expense.

NR might be the weakest defence of sort, nanoskills are also usually the weakest form of offence, because obviously, AAO isn't added either and nanos don't give a better return the more nanoskills you have.

Are we sure aao doesn't add to regular nanoskills, it adds to ranged specials like FA/burst/fling/AS and also melee specials i believe, I know it adds to NT with deck, but if thats couse he has deck equipped and thusly a weapon skill, *shrug* could be, but even so, lowest offense power Vs lowest defense power where the defense power has a +500 buff item is even...hmmm seem wrong there somehow?

ninst, please dont respond to me, if you cant even make an argument without contradicting yourself within 7 words, i dont wanna see your responce

[Shrubberyman]

This would be a good way to justify removing HH@B, green skills in NR would pretty much given to all profs with blue NR at the moment to make cover it tho, (rough estimate at increasing from dark blue to green is roughly 450? ... or so) so then profs that arnt as NR gifted would be slightly worse off, and other profs could get some NR speicific gear to make up the rest of the gap, and maybe even exceed it in some cases, possibly at some other expense.

Now that I think of it, I really fail to see the thinking behind the introduction of HHAB instead of acting on the color of NR in IP window. There was a definite lack of coherence imo behind the HHAB, the creation of NR perkline, the weird NR checks of nanos (all SL release content) and the implementing of "solutions" like NR debuffing nanoline. I don't know if we can expect the balancing to go so far as reviewing all this mess though.

Are we sure aao doesn't add to regular nanoskills, it adds to ranged specials like FA/burst/fling/AS and also melee specials i believe, I know it adds to NT with deck, but if thats couse he has deck equipped and thusly a weapon skill, *shrug* could be, but even so, lowest offense power Vs lowest defense power where the defense power has a +500 buff item is even...hmmm seem wrong there somehow?

Yes, we are sure AAO doesn't apply to nano attack check and AAD doesn't apply to related defencive checks. The stat showed in the AR window however does take AAO into account, but this AR is only the one we can muster on perks. Deck's AR was made to check MC, for the purpose of letting us use target-specific AI perks like ConC (which we couldn't use for a quite long time, so much for Champions of Nano Combat).

On the perk front by the way, Ninst isn't making up things. The NR checking perks like all perks check AAO and AAD. This has been a pain in the a$$ for the non-NTs professions (most with lowish AAO) with access to Starfall for a long time, but the balancing documentation already stated this would soon end. I think Klod will be happy Get ready to see support profs landing Supernova on you guys ^^
The funny stuff is that if FC had wanted only to help NTs land their perks and not particularly their nanos, they could have alternatively made CB a AAD debuffing nano, but somehow I would guess this would have created an implosion of the server hosting this forum instead of the quiet indifference CB triggered back in 2005/2006.


To sum my mind up, if FC had only :
- played with NR skill color and
- kept the amount of available AAD (and to some extent I guess of overall AR) in check and
- made NR perkline something sensible (or delete it altogether)

there would have been no need ever for HHAB, CB or incredibly low checks.

[Parranoid1]

First part i can see, deffinatly, its the only real thing that justifies an item like that. But it must be there for a reason, i mean it must of come about by everyone basically underbuffed in the NR statistic, so this was thrown in. This would probably suggest that NR was weak and in need of some help, BAM HH@B. The Nr perkline doesnt really make much sense either, i dont even think that it should be available past level 3 frankly. But those first 3 make sense, large NR buffs for sacrifice of your casting abilities.

Nano AR thing, sure i wasnt really sure i dont think i've played a super nano based profession before so yeah.

On the perk front by the way, Ninst isn't making up things. The NR checking perks like all perks check AAO and AAD. This has been a pain in the a$$ for the non-NTs professions (most with lowish AAO) with access to Starfall for a long time, but the balancing documentation already stated this would soon end.

I know he wasnt making it up, in fact im well aware that nano based perks check AAD, as all perks do, but i said multiple times, and even tried to make it clear in my post that i was talking about casted nanos, in fact i think i specifically wrote "casting nanos" or " nano casting" or something, (scrolling down is too much effort).

He even said himself "Since when only nanos are checked against NR? Perks check both NR and AAD." He said that then like 5 words later talked about perks which use a different mechanic entirely.

[navycut]

hhab is fine as it is, comparing it to a 500 AAD ring is retarded and you all know it.

Most profs have like 2.2k nr or so with hhab, yeah that's so overpowered right? and look, the QQing about blind resistance is stupid as well.

If it wasn't for those blind HUDs and an NT blinds me, I have zero chance in hell of ever killing it where I'm just unable to see wtf I'm going and being out 500 AAO (therefore NT is unperkable) and how hard is it to blind someone? One CB and there you go blind lands like 100% (if no blind huds).

Yeah so it's the same case with root resistance. It's stupid to have such powerful things like blinds and roots land 100%, because that's what CB does, it makes ALL your nanos have 100% land rate without stuff that adds resistance.

If blinds/roots had a shorter duration and were not spammable, then yeah resistance can be gone then.

[-Klod-]

AAD is getting out of NR perks checking equation, 110% blind resistance is getting removed.

Anything better you NTs can came up with?

[Parranoid1]

AAD is getting out of NR perks checking equation, 110% blind resistance is getting removed.

Anything better you NTs can came up with?

didnt know that 110% blind resistance is being removed :O

good thing i only run around with 60% resistance then isnt it!

[ninst]

hhab is fine as it is, comparing it to a 500 AAD ring is retarded and you all know it.

fact that with *current* mechanics its impossible to land most NR checking perks by some professions is retarded and you know it.

QQing about blind resistance is stupid as well.

If it wasn't for those blind HUDs and an NT blinds me, I have zero chance in hell of ever killing it where I'm just unable to see wtf I'm going and being out 500 AAO (therefore NT is unperkable)

Your view on balance is really awesome:
- You can resist blinds all the time regardless how much NR you have - that is balanced
- With 500 aao debuff you cant perk NT - that is not balanced, you are supposed to land everything on NT
You are ignoring the fact that blinds are instantly removable and the blind which may have impact on your ability to perk NT has 21 seconds lockout.

Anything better you NTs can came up with?

I can only repeat what other NTs told you 10 times already. I will be more than happy if i wont need cb after rebalancing. As soon as we know def checks on our new nukes and what land rate will be possible/needed to kill someone we can talk about cb. Until FC releases more info on NT rebalancing this discussion is pointless.

[-Klod-]

I can only repeat what other NTs told you 10 times already. I will be more than happy if i wont need cb after rebalancing. As soon as we know def checks on our new nukes and what land rate will be possible/needed to kill someone we can talk about cb. Until FC releases more info on NT rebalancing this discussion is pointless.

They did release enough info, it was pointed out already. Certain perks will lose AAD check, NR debuffing ones will be among them.

Hello?!

[ninst]

They did not say anything specific about our nukes. You know the stuff we are supposed to kill people with. Hello?

If you have some information on our new nukes damage/lockouts/def checks please share!

[-Klod-]

They did not say anything specific about our nukes.

We are discussing CB here.

[sultryvoltron]

We are discussing CB here.

CB is a nuke bro.

[-Klod-]

CB is a nuke bro.

We are discussing CB here.

P.S.
Did I say it's not a nuke?

[sultryvoltron]

They did not say anything specific about our nukes.

We are discussing CB here.

^ Here is you implying CB is seperate from our collective ignorance about nukes.

CB is a nuke bro.

^ Here is me pointing that out.

We are discussing CB here.

P.S.
Did I say it's not a nuke?

^ Here is you backpeddaling.

Anything else I can annotate for you?