0% Aggdef and capped speeds

[Gatester]

Should professions be allowed to go fully defensive on their aggdef bar and also remain at 1/1 attack speeds or be allowed to instantly cast their nanos? If so, under what circumstances or setups?



I personally say no. I do not see the logic in setups with no init buffing besides a viral compiler being able to cap speeds on their entire toolsets. Some professions cannot cap speeds at full def and I see those closer to balanced. If a player sacrifices for a great deal of init buffing, then they have earned the capped speed.

[Marinegent]

Is it strange that I play at full aggro on my 220 agent with all the init debuffing in game these days from perks and nanos alike?

:/

[Notcrattey]

Is it strange that I play at full aggro on my 220 agent with all the init debuffing in game these days from perks and nanos alike?

:/

No, just means you're more susceptible to nanos, reg hits, and specials with defense checks. The only issue would be for you, is that you're a lot more likely to get the debuffs sitting at full agg, so it would be better to learn to play with your agg/def bar.

[Hellrule]

There currently trying to rebalance the game. and you come up with this, why?

[Marinegent]

No, just means you're more susceptible to nanos, reg hits, and specials with defense checks. The only issue would be for you, is that you're a lot more likely to get the debuffs sitting at full agg, so it would be better to learn to play with your agg/def bar.

Wish there was a way to create a macro on the hotbar to set the agg/def %.

I actually asked about it, but was told there isn't a way to do that. Generally its too hard to accurately slide the bar while attempting to do other things in pvp.

Granted I don't always play full aggro, but it's becoming more common then i thought. Rarely do I resist those debuffs anyway (NR isnt perked) and regulars land often enough (offensive setup).

[NoGoal]

Should professions be allowed to go fully defensive on their aggdef bar and also remain at 1/1 attack speeds or be allowed to instantly cast their nanos? If so, under what circumstances or setups?

That's why they added caps on casting time to some nanos I guess. Wish more nanos were capped though and interrupt modifier reduced a bit. Mostly NCU Coolant Sink which has been badly corrected. It should give 1-60% which seems to be the intended buff (was 99-40% before the 'fix'). Now it's 40-99% which just make anyone immune to interrupts. Not like many wear one tho as instacasting their nanos already make them immune.

For weapon speed, main reason is that noone use a crit scope anymore to PvP or it would be harder to cap speed. There's also that odd decision from previous devs to make new weapons faster than old ones. It makes more sense to boost their dmg while making them slower imho. Just check AI weapons and their LE counterparts.

Also, while I'm on it, MA weapon template (1-3000) got it right, Salabim Shotgun (1-300) not.

[Gatester]

There currently trying to rebalance the game. and you come up with this, why?

You realize why its called balance discussion right? Try limiting yourself to constructive posts.

That's why they added caps on casting time to some nanos I guess. Wish more nanos were capped though and interrupt modifier reduced a bit. Mostly NCU Coolant Sink which has been badly corrected. It should give 1-60% which seems to be the intended buff (was 99-40% before the 'fix'). Now it's 40-99% which just make anyone immune to interrupts. Not like many wear one tho as instacasting their nanos already make them immune.

For weapon speed, main reason is that noone use a crit scope anymore to PvP or it would be harder to cap speed. There's also that odd decision from previous devs to make new weapons faster than old ones. It makes more sense to boost their dmg while making them slower imho. Just check AI weapons and their LE counterparts.

Also, while I'm on it, MA weapon template (1-3000) got it right, Salabim Shotgun (1-300) not.

How many professions cannot hit 1/1 speeds even with a scope equipped? I know at least MA's but I will not speculate on others. I can say that even with a ql300 VTS, my enforcer can 1/1 the 1.6 init based Ban'zhor with rage running. Profs using generally stronger weapon setups (AS pistol+burst/fling pistol, Dual Xan SMGs) are able to also become more defensive than someone using maybe an Angst of the Xan.

As far as casting, almost every profession being able to instacast their nanos at fulldef might not be the right way for AO. We also have to take into account localized cooldowns in the future too, and whether it will be too strong or balanced for several different nano actions to be instantaneous.

There is also the point about the severe amount of init debuffs that marine brings up.

Anyways, I feel the really big weapons should have a significant damage advantage but also a drawback on speeds. There used to be more weps that got slower as they improved, including sol k pistols and BBI Gyro's, but now we have cut down almost all attack and recharge speeds. This allowed a balance of IPing init skills, but also improved init boosting nanos and gear as you leveled. It also made Crit Scopes a more creative choice.

[Hellrule]

You realize why its called balance discussion right? Try limiting yourself to constructive posts.

Every single profession can go full def at higher levels, they've been able to do so for years now and is essential in pvm. your on some crusade to try and change the game in every way you seem fit, theirs nothing wrong with this mechanic.

[Essessceeaych]

Every single profession can go full def at higher levels, they've been able to do so for years now and is essential in pvm. your on some crusade to try and change the game in every way you seem fit, theirs nothing wrong with this mechanic.

It's not essential in pvm at all. Not even close. Are you going to argue that docs need to insta-cast at full def for their heals? Newsflash: they can't. Almost every doc I talk to (that isn't in an extreme nano init setup) has to go roughly 50-75% agg.

EQB got this right after the nerf. It hits hard, but is capped higher than 1/1. I know my MP insta casts everything (except stuff like pets, summons, odins other eye) and his nano init isn't anywhere NEAR maxed. It's like half.

[Gatester]

Every single profession can go full def at higher levels, they've been able to do so for years now and is essential in pvm. your on some crusade to try and change the game in every way you seem fit, theirs nothing wrong with this mechanic.

Asside from your entirely incorrect knowledge of profession speeds, their use of aggdef, and this necessity of going fulldef for PVM (which not all profs can), your assessment of me is quite correct. I wish to see every mechanic in this game, every single one, be forced to require knowledge and skill to use properly. You should be rewarded for game knowledge, and you should be forced to make setups that sacrifice.

As it stands some profs can have almost everything and give up nothing. This is not the way an MMO should run. Now whether FC wants to make AO "harder" to play in this method, I do not know or care, I simply put forth my views and suggestions and the community along with Funcom can decide on their own how they feel. Calling it a crusade though is quite funny, since I am under no impression that I can personally change anythinig in this game.


The entire point of the aggdef system is to choose between speed and defense. What is the point of having a choice if most professions get maximum speed and defense with the exact same setting?

[Anarchic1]

um aggdef is a huge part of pvm especially if u aren't some easy mode pvm profession.

[MachSchau]

Hmmm, I kind of see a point. The aggdef bar really doesn't play a huge significant role as it once did. Yes, it is true some cant go full def, but the majority can. But lets take weapon attack speed for example because at endgame all professions are hitting at 1/1. Whether the person is full agg or full def they will still be hitting for 1/1 and nothing changes in their damage. Only difference is, is that they will get hit more often and critted more if full agg and the opposite if full def. What is the point of having a no brainer system like that?

I think it would be neat that if a person who went full agg got perhaps a third attack as well as a damage and crit boost. I think that would be a decent sacrifice, go full agg get pwned harder but pwn harder back, go full def ehh not so much.

[erozc]

Hmmm, I kind of see a point. The aggdef bar really doesn't play a huge significant role as it once did. Yes, it is true some cant go full def, but the majority can. But lets take weapon attack speed for example because at endgame all professions are hitting at 1/1. Whether the person is full agg or full def they will still be hitting for 1/1 and nothing changes in their damage. Only difference is, is that they will get hit more often and critted more if full agg and the opposite if full def. What is the point of having a no brainer system like that?

I think it would be neat that if a person who went full agg got perhaps a third attack as well as a damage and crit boost. I think that would be a decent sacrifice, go full agg get pwned harder but pwn harder back, go full def ehh not so much.

This sounds interesting, actually. Relating the agg-def bar to just inits in an attempt to restore what once was, or think outside the box a bit and (possibly) create an entirely new situation where several tactics / setups that were never viable become so?

Seriously, if agg-def bar influenced attack speed beyond init caps, and had an effect on damage either via static or scaled amount of +dmg or crit %, things could become really exciting. The existing effect on inits and nano / attack speed could be kept as is alongside this change. There's no reason to stick to old mechanics just because they were the standard once. I like it.

[Otinsainpas]

I think it would be neat that if a person who went full agg got perhaps a third attack as well as a damage and crit boost.

would MA's and me get 4th attack then or are we nerfed compared to others? :P

[MachSchau]

would MA's and me get 4th attack then or are we nerfed compared to others? :P

Yeah probably. That would be the point of going full agg, to unlock another attack mechanism.

[Djantro]

I think that with special + perk damage playing such a big role in DD, even more in PvP nowadays, we indeed don't win THAT much from full aggro, but imagine they nerf perk & special like they intend to, and any lose on speed on regulars will be worse (talking profs that can't 1/1 full def mostly).

What i d like to see, tho, is a macro-able agg/def bar so you can change its value depending the situation with a click of 1 button instead of draging mouse in the lower right corner of screen, moving, and etc.

I play NT, and i d like to go quickly full aggro when i cast my AI dot (which i don t even cap the cast time full aggro), and i play agent, and i d like to go full agro most of time for better nano prog cast time (non-insta cast on my nano nerf my regular dmg since it stops the attack bar), and go full def or w/e value at which i m still 1/1 on weapon when i aggro.

I don't think that the agg/def bar mechs are dumd right now and need more complexity. Maybe it is because of the prof i m playin, and i ll talk about pvp mostly, but on my NT i d like to change the value of the agg/def bar all the time because it does affect my gameplay as it is.

Remember full def + ini debuff = worse then full agg + init debuff too, and stuff like that.

The fact that some professions have it easy and some other need to think twice about it b4 goin full def all the time is what bring complexity. The profession who has no issue goin full def 99% of the time have some other complex things to think about versus professions that micromanage their agg/def bar don't have to think about.

[Hellrule]

Asside from your entirely incorrect knowledge of profession speeds, their use of aggdef, and this necessity of going fulldef for PVM (which not all profs can) (snipped)

lets count those that play at full def or close to it

advys
agents
crats
enforcers
engineers
fixers
keepers
martial artist
meta's
nano technicians
shades
soldiers
traders

lets count those that don't
doctors.

and i know nothing of profession speeds?

[Notcrattey]

lets count those that play at full def or close to it

advys
agents
crats
enforcers
engineers
fixers
keepers
martial artist
meta's
nano technicians
shades
soldiers
traders

lets count those that don't
doctors.

and i know nothing of profession speeds?

And this is a reason not to change the functionality of the agg/def bar? By the way, NTs can't cast SI insta cast at full def. Shen stick shades are generally not full def. MAs with scopes are not full defense.

[Brofist]

And this is a reason not to change the functionality of the agg/def bar? By the way, NTs can't cast SI insta cast at full def. Shen stick shades are generally not full def. MAs with scopes are not full defense.

SI has a 2 second cast cap time. And yeah, you need 3600 nano ini+ full off to cap it.

[Notcrattey]

SI has a 2 second cast cap time. And yeah, you need 3600 nano ini+ full off to cap it.

Yah that's right, excuse my mistake :P