Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 41 to 60 of 60

Thread: The Range Cap

  1. #41
    Melee professions are supposed to get in melee range. If there is one thing that makes absolutely no sense, it is being able to completely ignore another player as you kill them.

    CC tools are supposed to be temporary tools to shift a fight in favor of the CC using profession slightly. Any point at which a CC tool can dominate professions is a point where CC tools are broken. In that same sense, any time a profession relying on CC tools cannot make use of those tools, they are also broken.

    Rage spamming is bad.
    Static CC tool immunity, or near immunity is bad.
    Chain rooting is bad.

    The only thing I haven't seen addressed is %resistance against CC tools. As long as CC tools work, but melee professions can also reach any ranged profession, it should be fine. More melee CC tools would be appropriate in that regard

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Melee professions are supposed to get in melee range. If there is one thing that makes absolutely no sense, it is being able to completely ignore another player as you kill them.
    While i understand that, i can easily turn it the opposite way:
    "Ranged professions are supposed to shoot from range. If there is one thing that makes absolutely no sense, it is being able to catch a long range rifle user while you fight with swords."

    There are two ways to look at this subject, and they both make sense. There are even some people who think that melee users should be the ones with roots.


    CC tools are supposed to be temporary tools to shift a fight in favor of the CC using profession slightly. Any point at which a CC tool can dominate professions is a point where CC tools are broken. In that same sense, any time a profession relying on CC tools cannot make use of those tools, they are also broken.

    Rage spamming is bad.
    Static CC tool immunity, or near immunity is bad.
    Chain rooting is bad.

    The only thing I haven't seen addressed is %resistance against CC tools. As long as CC tools work, but melee professions can also reach any ranged profession, it should be fine. More melee CC tools would be appropriate in that regard
    Agreed that CC tools should not be spammable. From what i heard they will have a cooldown after rebalance, and i hope they will. The same goes with rage (why the hell does the big fat tank profession have one of the highest runspeeds in game?)
    Last edited by Szyylin; Apr 19th, 2010 at 01:05:02.
    Zenevan2 - 220/30/70 agent

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Szyylin View Post
    While i understand that, i can easily turn it the opposite way:
    "Ranged professions are supposed to shoot from range. If there is one thing that makes absolutely no sense, it is being able to catch a long range rifle user while you fight with swords."
    have to disagree with you here, your taking a real world approach on a game, where as gatester isnt. hes that in a game environment it is silly that a melee prof cannot get into melee range, which it is.

    your statement seems to be more of a real world "why bring a sword to a gun battle" thing, which is very different
    Shadwstalker - In before agents are cool again! http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=171841
    Imsoparanoid - gimpeh http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=128791
    Shadwenf - gimpeh http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=133295

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Parranoid1 View Post
    have to disagree with you here, your taking a real world approach on a game, where as gatester isnt. hes that in a game environment it is silly that a melee prof cannot get into melee range, which it is.

    your statement seems to be more of a real world "why bring a sword to a gun battle" thing, which is very different
    In the real world elite snipers can hit people from a mile away, i don't think i was pushing the RL analogy too far .

    My approach was very in-game related. we have 2 ways to look at things:

    1) Melees must get in range of ranged or they won't kill them. melees have roots.
    2) Ranged must stay out of range of melees or they will get killed. ranged have roots.

    Both make sense but they don't work together. That's why people will never agree.
    Zenevan2 - 220/30/70 agent

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Szyylin View Post
    In the real world elite snipers can hit people from a mile away, i don't think i was pushing the RL analogy too far .

    My approach was very in-game related. we have 2 ways to look at things:

    1) Melees must get in range of ranged or they won't kill them. melees have roots.
    2) Ranged must stay out of range of melees or they will get killed. ranged have roots.

    Both make sense but they don't work together. That's why people will never agree.
    Sorry but if ranged were as squishy as a sniper while melee were hulking 6500 horsepower bulldozers, then you would have a point. As it stands, the survival of ranged professions is not lower than that of melee professions. In fact, ranged profs can often stay in melee range of melee professions for the entirety of a fight, and kill that melee profession. Crats are the only ranged profession I justify needing to maintain distance to win, while fixers need to get some distance to heal when they drop too low. Beyond that, I would take the survival of an engineer, ranged advy, soldier, trader or NT over that of my enforcer or shade any day.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Beyond that, I would take the survival of an...NT over that of my...enforcer...
    ...

    BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

    Good one.

    Oh those squishy and constantly bothered by CC Enforcers. Won't someone think of the Enforcers and finally un nerf them?!
    Member of Spartans
    Hacre/Solitus/Keeper/220/29/70 - Ninpopotamus/Solitus/NT/220/30/70 - Charmming/Opifex/Crat/220/30/70
    Quote Originally Posted by randomalpha View Post
    in the end soldier is not Op or even near from that never was never will be just for the record only keepers are the ones before soldiers on the nerfest list
    Genius at work.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Beyond that, I would take the survival of an engineer, ranged advy, soldier, trader or NT over that of my enforcer or shade any day.
    Are you REALLY saying that traders and NTs have a better survivability than enforcers?
    Zenevan2 - 220/30/70 agent

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Szyylin View Post
    Are you REALLY saying that traders and NTs have a better survivability than enforcers?
    It's a statement that goes rather well with the over-all credability of the thread though.
    Avari 220/30/80 - Araghos 220/30/80 - Shishido 220/30/7x - Araninn 220/30/80

    Quote Originally Posted by Tergx
    If one of the few traders are PvPing around you and land GTH on you, take a trip to decon and it will be gone. What's the big deal hehe.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Sorry but if ranged were as squishy as a sniper while melee were hulking 6500 horsepower bulldozers, then you would have a point. As it stands, the survival of ranged professions is not lower than that of melee professions. In fact, ranged profs can often stay in melee range of melee professions for the entirety of a fight, and kill that melee profession. Crats are the only ranged profession I justify needing to maintain distance to win, while fixers need to get some distance to heal when they drop too low. Beyond that, I would take the survival of an engineer, ranged advy, soldier, trader or NT over that of my enforcer or shade any day.
    except for the AMS hugging sold and .... loveProff advi
    ranged are WAY more squishy then melee toons

    Engi only has coon and blockers , any toon with high ar (like ur enf) can perk alpha it trough coon.
    trader, low heals and a Short duration shield wich kills ur whole nanopool after it ends
    Nt 2 low duration shields where 1 kills ur whole nanopool after it ends (self gth ftw) and the other roots u ...

    The defenses a melee toon has are perma or chainable ... Wtb
    Styxian MP overlord of Rk2


    DEVIL INSIDE

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Szyylin View Post
    Are you REALLY saying that traders and NTs have a better survivability than enforcers?
    No.

    We have a prof that can completely shutdown opponents, remove all of their nano shutting down many profs offense, can steal 100% reflects, sits as the 3rd to 4th best healers, has CC tools to control their opponents (including spammable AOE roots), a decent level of evades made stronger with drains, and has emergency shield nanos.

    Next we have a prof with a 100% sheild that lasts 19 seconds (so much fun to use), 85 to 95% damage reduction, a constant 20-24% damage reduction that even reduces their damage cap, blinds, CC tools that work better than any profession, and a decent level of evades.

    My enforcer? Can run away from anything, and survive almost any situation where im not snared or feared, has great NR, and has a hefty amount of absorbs that actually work against some professions. I am a 60ft tall gank prof that enjoys spending as much time running from fights as I do running into them, and when I get away I devote the next 2 minutes to healing my health.

    So if I had to choose between completely shutting down my opponent and outhealing most of his damage or completely stripping his defenses, having multitudes of massive damage mitigation tools, effective CC tools and blinds to really control a situation, or being able to survive any situation and number of opponents as long as I run away and try to gank someone again later....I'll take the damn shields.

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Styx-X View Post
    except for the AMS hugging sold and .... loveProff advi
    ranged are WAY more squishy then melee toons

    Engi only has coon and blockers , any toon with high ar (like ur enf) can perk alpha it trough coon.
    trader, low heals and a Short duration shield wich kills ur whole nanopool after it ends
    Nt 2 low duration shields where 1 kills ur whole nanopool after it ends (self gth ftw) and the other roots u ...

    The defenses a melee toon has are perma or chainable ... Wtb
    Ignoring the Engineers have low pvp survival comment and moving on. Since you are so good at listing how badly engineers traders and NTs have it in the defenses department, I suppose you can list all the awesome melee defenses of a shade or enforcer that totally blow yours away?




    Honestly, does anyone actually try to comprehend what someone says? If I do not want to die on my enforcer, I almost never will and there is not much you can do about it. The problem is, I would like to be able to tank players not run away after 10 seconds of fighting where my toolset fails to kill you. In other words, would I like a soldiers massive level of damage mitigation, engineers massive levels of damage ignoring, ranged advy's infinite kiting and healing ability, traders ability to shutdown opponents and heal, NTs massive level of damage mitigation and player control, or enforcers ability to escape any situation to fight later? I am not a borealis ganker, I do not enjoy kiting, I do not enjoy enforcer pvp. I enjoy my agent using TMS, my trader shutting down players and outhealing them, my NT using NS and absorbs in conjuction with nukes. My ranged advy plays just like my enforcer in pvp at tl5 and I'm sick of it too
    Last edited by Gatester; Apr 21st, 2010 at 17:37:14.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    No.
    Ignoring the Engineers have low pvp survival comment and moving on. Since you are so good at listing how badly engineers traders and NTs have it in the defenses department, I suppose you can list all the awesome melee defenses of a shade or enforcer that totally blow yours away?
    Shade -> HEALS , coon , Chaining Evade procs,CIB(1:20min)

    ::: i'll trade my NS2/nbg for those in a sec lol :::

    Enf -> Coon , heal perks , imongo , irage , FEAR , DB ESS
    (and a****load of stuns and initdebufs wich help allot too )

    ::: srsly what ranged toon other then maybe soldier has better survival then that and most of it is PERMA:::

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    I suppose you can list all the awesome melee defenses of a shade or enforcer that totally blow yours away?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    If I do not want to die on my enforcer, I almost never will and there is not much you can do about it.
    not many ranged can do that lol , u just answerd ur own question
    Last edited by X-Styx-X; Apr 21st, 2010 at 22:21:03.
    Styxian MP overlord of Rk2


    DEVIL INSIDE

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by X-Styx-X View Post
    Shade -> HEALS , coon , Chaining Evade procs,CIB(1:20min)

    ::: i'll trade my NS2/nbg for those in a sec lol :::

    Enf -> Coon , heal perks , imongo , irage , FEAR , DB ESS
    (and a****load of stuns and initdebufs wich help allot too )

    ::: srsly what ranged toon other then maybe soldier has better survival then that and most of it is PERMA:::



    not many ranged can do that lol , u just answerd ur own question
    Solds cant chain it, theres always that window of 'oh its time to faceroll and sold drops in 20secs'.
    Posted by Seventh: Has something to do with the fact that RL speaking im 172 sm high and weight 96 kg, all of which come in muscle form (and guessing your reaction about forum pvp, yes i can log into webcam )

    Said the pixels lol..

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by X-Styx-X View Post
    Shade -> HEALS , coon , Chaining Evade procs,CIB(1:20min)

    ::: i'll trade my NS2/nbg for those in a sec lol :::
    Styx, claiming Shades have more survival than NTs is a really REALLY bad path to take. If you think the shade survival toolset is more effective than NTs, you are still treading on thin ice.

    10 minute lockout on shades 5000 absorb.

    You cannot have heal perks (TR line) and CiB in the same setup, the TR heals also have the problem of being based on perking a player to heal and are reduced by reflects.

    Evades are good on shades, unfortunately the dodge ranged is like 300 points lower. Even worse, ranged profs tend to have dodge debuffs or 80% dodge checking perks. Fun times for melee.

    SHD is ok healing, about like a level 120 advy.

    So if you want to trade your absorbs, blinds, roots, snares, mezzes, NSII, GNS, NBG for those, feel free to start a thread and I'll bump it.

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Styx-X View Post
    Enf -> Coon , heal perks , imongo , irage , FEAR , DB ESS
    (and a****load of stuns and initdebufs wich help allot too )
    2 stuns and 2 init debuffs = loads of stuns and init debuffs? Whatever, moving on.

    Coon is ok, except our biggest weakness is capping hits, so its not as effective as it is for engineers, advy, or keepers.

    Heal perks...ok im assuming this includes HoT perks too. Unfortunately, the enforcer with ***loads of stuns and initdebuffs*** can't have all those heals too. Enforcers do not have 100 perk points to toss around. So you have Bio rejuvenation, and Bio regrowth. One 1000 heal and a 30 second long HoT with a 5minute lockout. Really awesome healing, you realize how much damage my enforcer takes in those 5minutes?

    Imongo, ~5200 healing every 22 seconds. So I can heal 1/6 of the damage I would take from an agents Aimed Shots alone.

    Irage, awesome nano. This is the key to enforcer survival, with this we can run away from almost any situation.

    Fear, also awesome. The only issue is the long lockout, otherwise its great for helping us gank someone, or fail and run away.

    DB essence, the double-edged sword. Half my duels, when people start to lose they step back and I have to cancel it. Suprisingly, its the agents I would expect to kite that never have. When I kite in duels however, I tend to do far better. Otherwise this is only viable when you have full runspeed buffage or a duel with someone who won't just step back, and healing 60-70k health is not fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Styx-X View Post
    ::: srsly what ranged toon other then maybe soldier has better survival then that and most of it is PERMA:::
    Soldiers do not have "better" survival than enforcers, and enforcers is hardly PERMA (although if we had constant 10k absorbs I would be thrilled) it is simply a style I would prefer. It is very hard to find a prof that can survive as well as enforcers, my point is simply that I would prefer a method of survival based on tanking people and not escape.

    This was also to counter Szyylin's argument that ranged profs cannot survive melee range with melee profs. The fact is, enforcers and shades survive by maintaining distance, not all ranged profs do.


    Also reread this part Styx

    If I do not want to die on my enforcer, I almost never will and there is not much you can do about it. The problem is, I would like to be able to tank players not run away after 10 seconds of fighting where my toolset fails to kill you.
    Last edited by Gatester; Apr 22nd, 2010 at 02:27:01.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Styx, claiming Shades have more survival than NTs is a really REALLY bad path to take. If you think the shade survival toolset is more effective than NTs, you are still treading on thin ice.
    10 minute lockout on shades 5000 absorb.
    coon isn't **** , NM nt's have the same thing
    gimme acrobat noaaaw !

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    You cannot have heal perks (TR line) and CiB in the same setup, the TR heals also have the problem of being based on perking a player to heal and are reduced by reflects.
    WHAT lol we cant perk heal perks and CIB in same setup ? rly ?
    perk like tis 10 PM 10 SP 8 TR 4 ACRO 8CIB and .... guess what ya can
    most shades perk like that.

    u forgot 1 thing , u got a HEAL nano too

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Evades are good on shades, unfortunately the dodge ranged is like 300 points lower. Even worse, ranged profs tend to have dodge debuffs or 80% dodge checking perks. Fun times for melee.
    what evade line u got most in is depending on ur setup, not like u should be getting perked if ur decent equiped

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    SHD is ok healing, about like a level 120 advy.
    120 advies dont got CIB, and guess what NT's got NONE healing stuffz

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    So if you want to trade your absorbs, blinds, roots, snares, mezzes, NSII, GNS, NBG for those, feel free to start a thread and I'll bump it.
    -my 5K absorb isn't proff locked but Breed based, the 1.3K nano one has a long recharge that kills it.
    -everyone in this game is uneffected by blinds cuz of 110% inmunity huds
    - i'll trade my roots for enf fear anyday and maybe some stun perks.
    - snares ? LOL since when i got snares :O if ur talking about PEN thats a NM perk , u could have rolled NM enfo.
    - u srsly call mezz a deffense ? a 200 crat has better ones then a 220 nt and they are useless in pvp.
    -NSII , lockouts and selfroot ftw !
    -GNS, social nano , just gimme a rffe plox
    -NGB, pretty much useless unless u enjoy sitting stil for 3Min refilling nanopool.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    2 stuns and 2 init debuffs = loads of stuns and init debuffs? Whatever, moving on.
    nope , u got more

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Coon is ok, except our biggest weakness is capping hits, so its not as effective as it is for engineers, advy, or keepers.

    Heal perks...ok im assuming this includes HoT perks too. Unfortunately, the enforcer with ***loads of stuns and initdebuffs*** can't have all those heals too. Enforcers do not have 100 perk points to toss around. So you have Bio rejuvenation, and Bio regrowth. One 1000 heal and a 30 second long HoT with a 5minute lockout. Really awesome healing, you realize how much damage my enforcer takes in those 5minutes?
    u do know nt's wont even last 5min ? not even half lol
    imongo , sit down , pop coon , BR, HD kicks in .... wish i had that lol i got like 110 HD sitting, thats it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Imongo, ~5200 healing every 22 seconds. So I can heal 1/6 of the damage I would take from an agents Aimed Shots alone.
    u have more healing then imongo , and not like a agent will last long vs a enf 1 on 1.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Irage, awesome nano. This is the key to enforcer survival, with this we can run away from almost any situation.
    and u forgot the huge NR buff on it. and enfs can have it running PERMA

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Fear, also awesome. The only issue is the long lockout, otherwise its great for helping us gank someone, or fail and run away.
    my stuff has 30min lockouts , try again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    DB essence, the double-edged sword. Half my duels, when people start to lose they step back and I have to cancel it. Suprisingly, its the agents I would expect to kite that never have. When I kite in duels however, I tend to do far better. Otherwise this is only viable when you have full runspeed buffage or a duel with someone who won't just step back, and healing 60-70k health is not fun.
    NSII -> pop it and whole omni zerg runs away till it ends , u dont self root urself nt's do.

    i'll trade u my 13K hp fosho , on removal DB ess is like a ICH
    Maybe there is a reason a agent has to kite u ?
    To much survival+dmg maybe ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Soldiers do not have "better" survival than enforcers, and enforcers is hardly PERMA (although if we had constant 10k absorbs I would be thrilled) it is simply a style I would prefer. It is very hard to find a prof that can survive as well as enforcers, my point is simply that I would prefer a method of survival based on tanking people and not escape.
    never said solds have better , i said MAYBE they got better at times , a kiteing sold is pretty much unkillable.
    IMongo,Irage ur best survival tools ARE perma. unless u run out of nano lol
    wish i could tank a zerg and kill em all srsly

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    This was also to counter Szyylin's argument that ranged profs cannot survive melee range with melee profs. The fact is, enforcers and shades survive by maintaining distance, not all ranged profs do.
    maybe ranged toons that like to visit reclaim, i yet still prefere staying close to my target on my shade , i'm not a supernova shade lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Also reread this part Styx

    If I do not want to die on my enforcer, I almost never will and there is not much you can do about it. The problem is, I would like to be able to tank players not run away after 10 seconds of fighting where my toolset fails to kill you.
    in 10sec u havnt even used all ur perks yet.
    yesh yesh yesh everyone should be able to tank whole zergs and still kill people
    U just said ur unkillable and still say ur survival sucks , lol

    FIX PLOX !
    u promised , now go make a topic to get me acrobat+cib+and some heals !
    u can have all my shields fosho
    i'll be inmortal lol
    Styxian MP overlord of Rk2


    DEVIL INSIDE

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by navycut View Post
    Actually if a NT were to get a shade's defense, NTs would be about 5x more OP than ranged advs, as it stands NTs are perkable, you can just run out of los if they use NS2 instead of facerolling your entire alpha into their 100% reflects. As for NBG, well you can either kite the NT by hopping all over whompas or running around until you see when NBG ends (you can see it in their NCU even) then destroy them when it ends.
    Martial Artist evades aren't enough for pvp, yet less evades and far less healing as a professions only defenses would make them OP. I hear Bow MPs are OP for the same reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Styx-X View Post
    coon isn't **** , NM nt's have the same thing
    gimme acrobat noaaaw !
    1334 Absorb Absorbs are pretty good damage mitigation, who woulda thought that.

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Styx-X View Post
    WHAT lol we cant perk heal perks and CIB in same setup ? rly ?
    perk like tis 10 PM 10 SP 8 TR 4 ACRO 8CIB and .... guess what ya can
    most shades perk like that.
    What a terrible shade pvp perk setup. Shades perk Sublime Report 6 for Disorientiate, the only ***Controlled*** stun in the shade toolset, and therefore a must have as a melee prof.

    PM 10, SP 10, CiB 10, Acro 4, SR 6. The alternative trades CiB for TR, defense for healing. Seriously, where is your stun lol. You gonna gank afk toons that don't kite?

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Styx-X View Post
    what evade line u got most in is depending on ur setup, not like u should be getting perked if ur decent equiped
    lol yeah...we still get perked, especially by ranged profs since we have 200-300 less dodge ranged.

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Styx-X View Post
    120 advies dont got CIB, and guess what NT's got NONE healing stuffz
    As if advy need CiB...If NTs had healing alongside their damage mitigation it would be as bad as 220 advy, except with one of the best offenses in game as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Styx-X View Post
    -my 5K absorb isn't proff locked but Breed based, the 1.3K nano one has a long recharge that kills it.
    -everyone in this game is uneffected by blinds cuz of 110% inmunity huds
    - i'll trade my roots for enf fear anyday and maybe some stun perks.
    - snares ? LOL since when i got snares :O if ur talking about PEN thats a NM perk , u could have rolled NM enfo.
    - u srsly call mezz a deffense ? a 200 crat has better ones then a 220 nt and they are useless in pvp.
    -NSII , lockouts and selfroot ftw !
    -GNS, social nano , just gimme a rffe plox
    -NGB, pretty much useless unless u enjoy sitting stil for 3Min refilling nanopool.
    Your absorb is still good, I know, I have an NT and enf to use them lol.
    Not everyone runs around with blind immunity, in fact less than 50% of any pvpers have both blind utils in at once.
    Ok forget snares lol.
    Calms are not useless, especially when they have init debuffs. Or is UBT useless in pvp too?
    NSII is a 1minute lockout on invincibility. I have no trouble using NS on my NT, I still have 40m range, roots and blinds and I also use the time to heal up to max health and recast absorbs.
    GNS > RRFE, DtN isn't broken like reflects for reducing capped hits.
    NBG allows you to stay alive at the cost of refilling your nano? I think its better than healing that much max health on say, an enforcer?

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Styx-X View Post
    nope , u got more
    Show me a 1hb/1he setup that has more than 2 stuns and 2 init debuffs. You gonna sacrifice bio shielding? Then you have no healing Maybe you will post a 2he setup...that'll be a funny.

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Styx-X View Post
    u do know nt's wont even last 5min ? not even half lol
    imongo , sit down , pop coon , BR, HD kicks in .... wish i had that lol i got like 110 HD sitting, thats it.
    You don't need to last 5minutes, and there are few profs that can last even 2 minutes with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Styx-X View Post
    u have more healing then imongo , and not like a agent will last long vs a enf 1 on 1.
    Yeah, like I said, 1he/1hb enforcers will have the 1000 heal, and the 30 second super hot that is the equivalent of 2 AS's (actually 1 Aimed Shot in a duel). I'm not sure of many good agents that would agree with you either.

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Styx-X View Post
    and u forgot the huge NR buff on it. and enfs can have it running PERMA
    Its a shame we still get drained, rooted, debuffed with usually only 1 more cast attempt. The NR works good for getting to someone half the time or maybe 2/3 time if they are lower geared.

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Styx-X View Post
    my stuff has 30min lockouts , try again.
    Dimach

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Styx-X View Post
    NSII -> pop it and whole omni zerg runs away till it ends , u dont self root urself nt's do.
    For 19 seconds you are free to do w/e you want unless there is an engie, whom you will just root out of his mesely NSD range, or another NT. So in the make believe world of Omni zergs VS the lone NT, there is rarely a time where you can spend 19 seconds around a zerg without any help.

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Styx-X View Post
    i'll trade u my 13K hp fosho , on removal DB ess is like a ICH
    Maybe there is a reason a agent has to kite u ?
    To much survival+dmg maybe ?
    Gimme your other defenses too, and I'll be more than happy

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Styx-X View Post
    never said solds have better , i said MAYBE they got better at times , a kiteing sold is pretty much unkillable.
    IMongo,Irage ur best survival tools ARE perma. unless u run out of nano lol
    wish i could tank a zerg and kill em all srsly
    So enforcers are no longer vulnerable to the AS, FA, SA spams or high DD and they also alpha entire zergs...

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Styx-X View Post
    in 10sec u havnt even used all ur perks yet.
    yesh yesh yesh everyone should be able to tank whole zergs and still kill people
    U just said ur unkillable and still say ur survival sucks , lol
    The only prof I even know of with that kind of ability is an NT using NBS, and next closest might be advy who can kill one player and run away. Even a sold will die to a zerg lol, and a 32k max health enforcer sure the hell aint. Being unkillable RUNNING AWAY is not also KILLING THE ZERG lol. There is a big difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Styx-X View Post
    FIX PLOX !
    u promised , now go make a topic to get me acrobat+cib+and some heals !
    u can have all my shields fosho
    i'll be inmortal lol
    Heh maybe I will make the thread, I'd like the laughs.
    Last edited by Gatester; Apr 22nd, 2010 at 16:25:14.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    1334 Absorb Absorbs are pretty good damage mitigation, who woulda thought that.
    allmost 5sec recharge , useless in combat unless as a 1time buff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    What a terrible shade pvp perk setup. Shades perk Sublime Report 6 for Disorientiate, the only ***Controlled*** stun in the shade toolset, and therefore a must have as a melee prof.

    PM 10, SP 10, CiB 10, Acro 4, SR 6. The alternative trades CiB for TR, defense for healing. Seriously, where is your stun lol. You gonna gank afk toons that don't kite?
    stun nano ftw , (http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=204328 when i feel special)
    saying u can't perk CIb and TR is just stupid , shades dont need a stun to kill people.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    lol yeah...we still get perked, especially by ranged profs since we have 200-300 less dodge ranged.
    no no no , U got 200-300 less dodge
    not all shades do
    But if u still get perked it doesn't mean shades are nerfed or got crappy evades
    cuz it doesn't count for all shades.
    Mine's just fine in his betas and 240's spirits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    As if advy need CiB...If NTs had healing alongside their damage mitigation it would be as bad as 220 advy, except with one of the best offenses in game as well.
    we got ubah survival and now offense too ... nt alpha roxx .... lol /sarcasme

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Your absorb is still good, I know, I have an NT and enf to use them lol.
    Not everyone runs around with blind immunity, in fact less than 50% of any pvpers have both blind utils in at once.
    Ok forget snares lol.
    Calms are not useless, especially when they have init debuffs. Or is UBT useless in pvp too?
    NSII is a 1minute lockout on invincibility. I have no trouble using NS on my NT, I still have 40m range, roots and blinds and I also use the time to heal up to max health and recast absorbs.
    GNS > RRFE, DtN isn't broken like reflects for reducing capped hits.
    NBG allows you to stay alive at the cost of refilling your nano? I think its better than healing that much max health on say, an enforcer?
    -nope nt absorb nano sucks , its to slow. even spamming it wont remove normal dmg hits this isn't tl2 anymore where spamming absorb made ya close to inmortal.
    -and the other 50% are docs and greens i guess ...
    -calms ARE USELESS , 800 init debuff yeay u do know they insta break on dmg ? and nt has NO debuffs. so useless in pvp be ashamed compareing it to Ubt.!!!!!!!!
    - stop compareing lowbie nt's to a 220, we can't even heal to max heal dureing the time of ns2 ( all ql 300 bs stims )
    -cuz u dont know how it works doesn't mean its broken , i dont plan on getting capped hits. rffe > nt absorb.
    -LOL ! theres way more heal options then nanoheal ones, not to mention nbg is verry squishy, dont expect it to last 25sec.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Show me a 1hb/1he setup that has more than 2 stuns and 2 init debuffs. You gonna sacrifice bio shielding? Then you have no healing Maybe you will post a 2he setup...that'll be a funny.
    Body Tackle: stun
    Bring the Pain: stun
    Crush Bone: init debuff
    Groin Kick: stun
    Groin Kick: init debuff
    Headbutt: stun
    brawl: stun

    shall i name more lol ?
    if ur pvp u should have those perks.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    You don't need to last 5minutes, and there are few profs that can last even 2 minutes with you.
    19s+25s and then we go down fast seeing theres so many low check perks ingame like ENFO.
    Stop saying NT has better survival then a enf , we are no where close.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Yeah, like I said, 1he/1hb enforcers will have the 1000 heal, and the 30 second super hot that is the equivalent of 2 AS's (actually 1 Aimed Shot in a duel). I'm not sure of many good agents that would agree with you either.
    perk Groin Kick , its essential.
    -1100 inits....

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Its a shame we still get drained, rooted, debuffed with usually only 1 more cast attempt. The NR works good for getting to someone half the time or maybe 2/3 time if they are lower geared.
    can't expect to be Inmune to nanos.
    yet i think ur exaggerating since i tried nr2 and i was allmost intouchable for nanos.
    ubt alr barely lands with 2861 nr.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Dimach
    think nt's dont got dimach ?
    try again

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    For 19 seconds you are free to do w/e you want unless there is an engie, whom you will just root out of his mesely NSD range, or another NT. So in the make believe world of Omni zergs VS the lone NT, there is rarely a time where you can spend 19 seconds around a zerg without any help.
    uhmmm why root the engi ? its the 2 pets wich hurt and are insta free'able by the engi.
    this is tl7 >=O

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Gimme your other defenses too, and I'll be more than happy
    take em !


    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    So enforcers are no longer vulnerable to the AS, FA, SA spams or high DD and they also alpha entire zergs...
    u didn't see my point did u ? ur not supposed to tank a zerg ! even if ur a enf0
    Doesn't mean ur survival is broken, means ur trying to be a GM.
    Like u said in last posts if u couldn't alpha it in 10sec u had to bail cuz u couldn't tank them much longer.

    None should be able to tank a zerg and still keep killing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    The only prof I even know of with that kind of ability is an NT using NBS, and next closest might be advy who can kill one player and run away. Even a sold will die to a zerg lol, and a 32k max health enforcer sure the hell aint. Being unkillable RUNNING AWAY is not also KILLING THE ZERG lol. There is a big difference.
    lol srsly , u mean the only prof u THINK can do that.
    nbs wont let u tank a zerg , it will barely let u tank 1 person if hes not to high on DD.
    a few hits and u go depleted (self GTH) and game over.
    forgot about that ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Being unkillable RUNNING AWAY is not also KILLING THE ZERG lol. There is a big difference.
    u just asked for more tanking ability so u wouldn't have to run , so if u can't kill a zerg solo ask on forums for a boost ?



    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Heh maybe I will make the thread, I'd like the laughs.
    this one made me laugh but half the forum is alr full with u trying to change everything lol
    Styxian MP overlord of Rk2


    DEVIL INSIDE

  17. #57
    Styx you are a hopeless cause If you aren't willing to understand my simple point of what I prefer, and not what is better, then you can live in ignorance. Either way, I don't think anyone can justify the comment that its impossible for ranged profs to survive in melee range now.

    Just to remind everyone though, Nullity Sphere is losing its root. I also forgot that wen-wen that refreshes its blocker everytime you die and enter decon.

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Styx-X View Post
    never said solds have better , i said MAYBE they got better at times , a kiteing sold is pretty much unkillable.
    IMongo,Irage ur best survival tools ARE perma. unless u run out of nano lol
    wish i could tank a zerg and kill em all srsly

    in 10sec u havnt even used all ur perks yet.
    yesh yesh yesh everyone should be able to tank whole zergs and still kill people
    U just said ur unkillable and still say ur survival sucks , lol
    Quote Originally Posted by X-Styx-X View Post
    u didn't see my point did u ? ur not supposed to tank a zerg ! even if ur a enf0
    Doesn't mean ur survival is broken, means ur trying to be a GM.
    Like u said in last posts if u couldn't alpha it in 10sec u had to bail cuz u couldn't tank them much longer.

    None should be able to tank a zerg and still keep killing.
    This makes me laugh, not because I personally know how stupid it is that you keep claiming enfs are some immortal juggernaught alpha dropping zergs, but because of your comment in Borealis the other day on your enf.

    "56k max health muahahaha"

    5 seconds later Zephrocks drops you to 15% health in less than 2 seconds. I think you are full of **** styx, and that comment about shades not needing stuns, idk lol. Usually when people see a shade start perking them, they throw up defenses or kite not stand their like an idiot and die.

    Anyways, when you get your enf to 220 and decked out, you can see what its like yourself. When you start tanking zergs and alphaing teams of omni, fraps it for me and I might learn what I am doing wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by navycut View Post
    Eh? Who said anything abt MAs?
    Are your MAs defenses OP? If not, then how can a prof with far less than what you have and nothing else be OP? I can see against some opponents that NTs would be more dangerous, but without roots, absorbs, shields, or anything else I think on a whole they would become the lowest surviving profession.

    Quote Originally Posted by navycut View Post
    Alright, heres the thing, you may think "oh my enf's absorbs are pretty good!". On an NT it's a wayyyyy different story because casting that absorb means you can't cast anything else, on an enf however, you have your perks and specials and normals and all of that crap that can keep on coming, so enfs can spam all the absorbs they want and not care.

    If an NT spams absorbs, it takes away like almost 100% of their offence
    You can spam it but you don't need to spam it, it is part of several tools in the NT arsenal. If you only count one defensive tool then professions look weaker don't they? Absorbs are highly effective for reducing the chance you are alphad, and for NTs with situational and castable emergency defenses, it is a very important part of the toolset.
    Last edited by Gatester; Apr 23rd, 2010 at 22:33:51.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by X-Styx-X View Post
    WHAT lol we cant perk heal perks and CIB in same setup ? rly ?
    perk like tis 10 PM 10 SP 8 TR 4 ACRO 8CIB and .... guess what ya can
    most shades perk like that.
    That looks like my PVM perk setup. Anyone who really pvps isn't going to perk TR; they perk the stun or root removals. You know, useful things.

    You do realize that the heal perks don't work in pvp right? You end up taking more damage than it heals sometimes.

    u forgot 1 thing , u got a HEAL nano too
    You mean the one that requires you to land something? How reliable.
    Dagger 220/30/70 Shade // Attempted 219/24/?? Enforcer // Canidae 180/0/0 Adventurer // World 185/26/32 Meta-Physicist// Cramp 150/20/35 Engineer
    Ya wanna fix something - give RK mobs better xp, make RK matter again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mamman View Post
    Give shades love or we will stop buffing people!!

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Styx you are a hopeless cause If you aren't willing to understand my simple point of what I prefer, and not what is better, then you can live in ignorance. Either way, I don't think anyone can justify the comment that its impossible for ranged profs to survive in melee range now.
    most the stuff u said is just ur own opinion , nothing even remotely true.
    i srsly LOL'ed so hard when u compared nt mezz to ubt.

    still not seen a single piece of proof that a ranged toon can just tank melee ones withoud haveing to use range.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Just to remind everyone though, Nullity Sphere is losing its root. I also forgot that wen-wen that refreshes its blocker everytime you die and enter decon.
    so ur asking changes based on stuff not even ingame yet ?
    Amg wenwen... we got so high survival we have to die each time to get our toolset back ... yeaaay...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    This makes me laugh, not because I personally know how stupid it is that you keep claiming enfs are some immortal juggernaught alpha dropping zergs, but because of your comment in Borealis the other day on your enf.

    "56k max health muahahaha"

    5 seconds later Zephrocks drops you to 15% health in less than 2 seconds. I think you are full of **** styx, and that comment about shades not needing stuns, idk lol. Usually when people see a shade start perking them, they throw up defenses or kite not stand their like an idiot and die.
    i'm a 215 enf in nano setup to self all TOP enf nanos, i dont expect to tank a pretty much endgame sold withoud useing my nanos or absorbs.
    To tank a sold i need AAD not a setup made to tank PVM content.

    When u self a high enough stun nano , the perk is useless
    u kill people faster then the perk recharges and TR is pretty vital vs enfs and to heal up on pets.
    Saying shades cant perk TR and CIB is a stupid thing to say.
    its ur opinion , this game shouldn't undergo changes based on ur opinions but on facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Anyways, when you get your enf to 220 and decked out, you can see what its like yourself. When you start tanking zergs and alphaing teams of omni, fraps it for me and I might learn what I am doing wrong.
    srsly u drunk or something ? this is what i said.
    "u didn't see my point did u ? ur not. supposed to tank a zerg ! even if ur a enf0
    Doesn't mean ur survival is broken, means ur trying to be a GM.
    Like u said in last posts if u couldn't alpha it in 10sec u had to bail cuz u couldn't tank them much longer."

    where did i say 220 enfs can tank zergs ? where did i say u should be alphaing zergs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Honestly, does anyone actually try to comprehend what someone says? If I do not want to die on my enforcer, I almost never will and there is not much you can do about it. The problem is, I would like to be able to tank players not run away after 10 seconds of fighting where my toolset fails to kill you. In other words, would I like a soldiers massive level of damage mitigation, engineers massive levels of damage ignoring, ranged advy's infinite kiting and healing ability, traders ability to shutdown opponents and heal, NTs massive level of damage mitigation and player control, or enforcers ability to escape any situation to fight later? I am not a borealis ganker, I do not enjoy kiting, I do not enjoy enforcer pvp. I enjoy my agent using TMS, my trader shutting down players and outhealing them, my NT using NS and absorbs in conjuction with nukes. My ranged advy plays just like my enforcer in pvp at tl5 and I'm sick of it too
    still claim I said u should be tanking zergs and alphaing them ?
    U did.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    You can spam it but you don't need to spam it, it is part of several tools in the NT arsenal. If you only count one defensive tool then professions look weaker don't they? Absorbs are highly effective for reducing the chance you are alphad, and for NTs with situational and castable emergency defenses, it is a very important part of the toolset.
    they are not for a tl7 nt
    Dont think cuz u have a lowbie nt with NS1 u know what a 220 pvp nt is like.

    at tl7 nt's shouldn't get alphad (unless if ur stripped) and useing that absorb wich absorbs maybe 1 hit , but locks u out of anything for close to 5sec is useless , u get more dmg in recharge then u absorb , better to use dmg instead.
    Styxian MP overlord of Rk2


    DEVIL INSIDE

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by X-Styx-X View Post
    still not seen a single piece of proof that a ranged toon can just tank melee ones withoud haveing to use range.
    Engineers
    http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=70295
    http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=227680
    http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=154715
    http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=215576
    http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=215598
    http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=223311

    Soldier
    http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=273398
    http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=273400
    http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=233033
    http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=267939

    Trader
    http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=273410
    http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=260761
    http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=275030
    http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=275029
    http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=270808
    http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=280050
    http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=270714
    http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=269842

    Considering I excluded fixers and crats, already went over NTs enough, and I do not believe I need to go into the issue of Zset Shield MPs, I think I can rest my case, or do I need to post the entire toolset of each professions?

    I should make a point though. When I say I cannot die on my enforcer if I choose not to, its not by running INTO a zerg, its running away from it. Although im pretty sure no one else was dense enough to misread that.


    Now, why do these profs need an almost entire toolset that reaches 40m, rather than having some tools with lower capped ranges? Besides the fact that they have no survival ofc.

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •