Improve PvP Teaming by reworking Buffs

[sultryvoltron]

The RRFE thread got me thinking about this.

There is no incentive to team for many professions. There are several reasons for this, and I'll address a few.

1) The class has no useful team buffs to provide. I'm thinking Agents, Crats, Enfs, MAs, MPs, NTs, and Shades (Crats included because Auras don't require teamimg.)

2) There is no benefit for multiple of the same profession to team in many cases. Reflects don't stack, Auras don't stack (Keepers can theoretically run different Auras), Umbrals don't stack, Advy auras don't stack, Fixer runspeeds don't stack.

Possible solutions:

1) Provide every class a team Aura that provides something beneficial to the entire team. Essentially, every class needs a reason to be added to a team.

2) There are several solutions possible here. First, everyone could be given medium level abilities that stack higher and higher based on the number of said profession in the team. For example, teaming one soldier gives 8% reflect, teaming 2 soldiers gives 16% (40% for soldiers), 3 gives 24% (42% for soldiers), 4 gives 32% (44% for soldiers), 5 gives 40% (46% for soldiers). A team of 6 soldiers would get 48% reflect. This option would allow for each soldier in the team to run their own reflect and get benefits for teaming other soldiers.

Alternatively, every profession could have two different auras. There could be a base aura, think Improved Heroic Measures, and every other crat in team could run an alternative aura giving the team a small amount, say +20 AAO, +30 AAD. These team-only auras would stack for as many crats are in the team. This option has the drawback of requiring that the people in the team work as a team. This means that in order to make your team stronger, you have to give up your own self-aura to make your team better. If you want the buff, you have to stay with the team.

Note: The numbers presented are arbitrary. They are used to model the idea only.

This would obviously be done in conjunction with changing the buff system to a self-oriented system. OBs would be limited to twinking buffs, abilities, SFA, pure weapon skill buffs, wrangles, etc. If you want a combat buff, you have to team that class.

Thoughts? Concerns? Ideas on what your profession should provide to a team, and/or how it should scale based on the number of profs in the team?

[Mostadio]

A lot of the major pvp buffs could be reworked to require a team. Rather than running up to profession X and asking for buff Y and then saying "kthxbai". Primarily fixer hots and runspeed, RRFE, advy morphs, MA/agent crit buffs, and enforcer HP buffs.

If you don't think these buffs have major consequences, look at TL2/3 pvp. A fixer can pretty much double a char's runspeed at these levels and rrfe+HNQ pretty much nullifies a fair majority of damage.

At TL7 it's less compounded, but still game changing. Anybody with GSF suddenly has capped runspeed, add wolf and some snares become little more than a nuissance. To top it all off, once you have these buffs, it's "kthxbai" to the dood who gave them to you. You don't have to interact with that guy again until you die, and in the event of BS, until the next round. I know on my engineer, with 4 OBs I can easily take down 3 people without breaking a sweat, and if a 4th shows up I can just bail without fear of getting caught because I'm running at capped RS. All because some guys buffed me 20 minutes prior.

[Hacre]

Keeper Auras do require a team, the only exception being the anti fear aura.

I don't want to see everyone -forced- to team. There's already plenty of benefits to teaming over running solo.

All these changes will accomplish, is an increase in the biggest zerg /assisting winning and no one really enjoying solo PvP anymore, because the majority will be teamed with OBs up the ass, while the solo runner gets nothing but their own toolset.

As for you Mostadio, you talk as if only one party at TL2 can get OBs. Anyone can get the OBs. Practically everyone, apart from the rare occasion where every single Soldier and Agent on the server are asleep, can get RRFE. Nothing will change by saying anyone can get RRFE, to no one can get RRFE. Given how low HP is at TL2, for example, the only difference RRFE really makes is to DoTs and tower damage, since any active prof at that level is largely alpha/special reliant, which since the reflect nerf, a cap is a cap is a cap. I 4 button people with RRFE as easily as I do if they don't have RRFE.

[Mostadio]

So your solution is alpha online? Sounds great...

[Hacre]

So your solution is alpha online? Sounds great...

Nope. The solution comes in the rebalance, where, if we're to believe what has been hinted at, "alphas" won't be what they are now and fights will last longer. I don't see why getting buffs from other professions, or other higher level professions if you twink to where you can take them, should be taken away.

It's a slippery slope to nerfing twinking altogether. Which is an integral part of AO.

Go ahead and keep on putting words in my mouth though.

[sultryvoltron]

A lot of the major pvp buffs could be reworked to require a team. Rather than running up to profession X and asking for buff Y and then saying "kthxbai". Primarily fixer hots and runspeed, RRFE, advy morphs, MA/agent crit buffs, and enforcer HP buffs.

If you don't think these buffs have major consequences, look at TL2/3 pvp. A fixer can pretty much double a char's runspeed at these levels and rrfe+HNQ pretty much nullifies a fair majority of damage.

At TL7 it's less compounded, but still game changing. Anybody with GSF suddenly has capped runspeed, add wolf and some snares become little more than a nuissance. To top it all off, once you have these buffs, it's "kthxbai" to the dood who gave them to you. You don't have to interact with that guy again until you die, and in the event of BS, until the next round. I know on my engineer, with 4 OBs I can easily take down 3 people without breaking a sweat, and if a 4th shows up I can just bail without fear of getting caught because I'm running at capped RS. All because some guys buffed me 20 minutes prior.

Yeah, that's why I suggested that you actually have to be in the team with these guys...

@Hacre: That's all fine and dandy, I completely agree with you. But, FC needs to balance around what professions can do by themselves, but not overpower said professions with the simple addition of a single buff. If Docs get just the right amount of survival selfed, RRFE will send them over the top. What can, and can't be OB'd needs a serious look. What can be OB'd but would be overpowered might take some weak form, or become some sort of team aura.

[Mountaingoat]

Crats do have a team aura, it's called Commanding Presence. 260 aao, 100 aad, 2% xp at perk level 10 if I remember right.

[MassDebater]

Better yet, why not encourage fun solo pvp, rather than zerging unprepared pvmers with 25+ specials

[sultryvoltron]

Better yet, why not encourage fun solo pvp, rather than zerging unprepared pvmers with 25+ specials

Because solo PvP is either 1v1 battles, or trying to damage farm those PvMers for your precious solo points, or being damage farmed by the other side's zerg. It's also very rock paper scissors to solo atm.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I like the idea.

I think you guys missed a big part of the suggestion.

MA's WANT to give something to the team!

How the hell was it that advy's got to supply a 176 evade buff, but MA's didn't? Isn't that a bit like... I don't know, but stupid?

MA's should get a nice aura that adds crit, obviously, and evades, obviously.

agents should get an aura that adds AS and conceal and size reduction.

everyone should get team auras that add a better version of their best "other" buff

[MassDebater]

Because solo PvP is either 1v1 battles, or trying to damage farm those PvMers for your precious solo points, or being damage farmed by the other side's zerg. It's also very rock paper scissors to solo atm.

You mention 6v1 like thats the opposite of team pvp, the opposite of zerging is 1v1.
"precious solo points" but team score is like uberawesome macho amirite...
Team pvp way more simple than solo pvp, doc+damage+ccers vs doc+damage+ccers, all just blast away at one target then reassist.

[sultryvoltron]

You mention 6v1 like thats the opposite of team pvp, the opposite of zerging is 1v1.
"precious solo points" but team score is like uberawesome macho amirite...

There is rarely 1v1 in BS. If there is a good 1v1, 9 times out of 10 someone shows up helps kill the other person.

Oh, and teamscore is only lame because FC made it that way. It's not my fault they gave every profession the cool solo title names, and generic lame team titles, also without adding a proper team pvp venue.

As a side note, /assist ruins PvP.

[MassDebater]

There is rarely 1v1 in BS. If there is a good 1v1, 9 times out of 10 someone shows up helps kill the other person.

Oh, and teamscore is only lame because FC made it that way. It's not my fault they gave every profession the cool solo title names, and generic lame team titles, also without adding a proper team pvp venue.

As a side note, /assist ruins PvP.

Damn straight its hard to get 1v1 on bs....this teaming crap will make it worse.
Saying that people farm soloscore over teamscore due to "cool" names...lolo engy title sucks balls, as do alot of classes, team score ones are cool sounding military ones. I just find assisting(wether with a macro or otherwise) 5 other people as we pound someone into the ground in 2 seconds flat boring.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Damn straight its hard to get 1v1 on bs....this teaming crap will make it worse.
Saying that people farm soloscore over teamscore due to "cool" names...lolo engy title sucks balls, as do alot of classes, team score ones are cool sounding military ones. I just find assisting(wether with a macro or otherwise) 5 other people as we pound someone into the ground in 2 seconds flat boring.

The whole game is made up to team kill though. This about how many perks have if(bloodletting is running, UBER dmg, Crap dmg)
if(leg shot is running, BIG dot, small dot)
if(XX is running, keel, live)

right, so, the game is setup so that a 1-1 battle is almost a matter of chance, but, a 2-1 situation should result in a kill, not because 2 on 1 is stronger, but, because the mechanics make it so.

Whether or not you use assist doesn't matter. Tab, attack whoever attacks you, random point click shoot, who cares. The GAME MECHANICS make it so that if you attack someone who is already under attack, they should, by mechanism, NOT by strength in numbers, die before either of the two attackers.

using assist takes advantage of this obvious mechanism. Not using assist doesn't. WHICH means you are, by choice, not NOT playing honourably akin to a mano a mano fight, but, playing in weaker way, by mechanism.

[Kinkstaah]

I don't want to see everyone -forced- to team. There's already plenty of benefits to teaming over running solo.

Bump. There should always be increased glory for those who do not require a team.

[Traderjill]

I was under the impression that people didn't team simply because they were trying to get solo kills.. at least that's what almost everyone I've ever spoken to (that said they didn't team in BS) has stated.

IMO solo kills should not be able to accumulated in BS because it takes away from the side v side component of the activity. We already have arenas, duels and flagged PvP for those that want to solo title farm. I'm not sure why we don't automatically get thrown into a raid interface upon hitting decontamination.. I believe the fact that we don't is one of the bigger flaws of BS.

[sultryvoltron]

Bump. There should always be increased glory for those who do not require a team.

BS is a PvP joke. There's literally no downside to dying. In some situations it's a welcome option to die. Getting solo kills is a grind. There's no challenge, there's no skill, there's only time put into it and relative speeds at which each player/prof can accomplish the grind. Find someone you can kill, unload perks and specials, waste time until you can repeat.

Lots of glory in that, gratz man...

[Djantro]

Peronnally, i don't care teaming, if someone invite me i ll always pres yes, cause i don't care about solo kills, but i don't like /assist gameplay neither, where all 6 people jump on a single guy. It is kinda hard, i think, to work differently as a team too. But would be cool to split a team in 2 group of 3 imo for instance.

What i do like, and that i d love to see enhanced, is running by 2, eventually 3 if that s not overkill for the opponents you might meet.

Working as a pair tho is interesting, and kinda challenging too. Combined alpha, timing, know what prof is 1st target for your partner beside what you d go for 1st, know when your partner can't handle and you should just run away, etc etc.

Loved to do such run with, for instance, Srompu, from time to time. I think you need to know how the other guy gonna play it. I rarely do it tho because you really need to team the same guy couple times to be efficient, imo.

[MassDebater]

Getting solo kills is a grind. There's no challenge, there's no skill, there's only time put into it and relative speeds at which each player/prof can accomplish the grind. Find someone you can kill, unload perks and specials, waste time until you can repeat.

Lots of glory in that, gratz man...

And this is different to team pvp how........?

The whole game is made up to team kill though. This about how many perks have if(bloodletting is running, UBER dmg, Crap dmg)
if(leg shot is running, BIG dot, small dot)
if(XX is running, keel, live)

right, so, the game is setup so that a 1-1 battle is almost a matter of chance, but, a 2-1 situation should result in a kill, not because 2 on 1 is stronger, but, because the mechanics make it so.

Whether or not you use assist doesn't matter. Tab, attack whoever attacks you, random point click shoot, who cares. The GAME MECHANICS make it so that if you attack someone who is already under attack, they should, by mechanism, NOT by strength in numbers, die before either of the two attackers.

using assist takes advantage of this obvious mechanism. Not using assist doesn't. WHICH means you are, by choice, not NOT playing honourably akin to a mano a mano fight, but, playing in weaker way, by mechanism.

The difference between perk damage because there are 2 professions that just happen to have the correct perk lines perked..AND have perked the target at the right time, some how being the reason that 2v1 is so easy is just flat out ridiculous.

[Hacre]

I was under the impression that people didn't team simply because they were trying to get solo kills.. at least that's what almost everyone I've ever spoken to (that said they didn't team in BS) has stated.

IMO solo kills should not be able to accumulated in BS because it takes away from the side v side component of the activity. We already have arenas, duels and flagged PvP for those that want to solo title farm. I'm not sure why we don't automatically get thrown into a raid interface upon hitting decontamination.. I believe the fact that we don't is one of the bigger flaws of BS.

I think the people who hand over cash to play should be allowed to choose how they want to PvP, within the rules of conduct of course.

While it is probably too big of an ask for FC to concentrate on solo PvP, they shouldn't be making it, or be encouraged to make it, downright impossible either.

PvM content, Notum Wars, flagged PvP and now Battlestation. AO is Zerg Online.