Friday with Means - March 5th, 2010 - It isn't a sprint.

[Tinypain]

*confused*

What proposal? And what does this proposal have to do with what I said?

Page 2 or 3 I suggested they put caps on %reflect for everyone except soldiers.

This means if you have a way to get 75% reflect, somehow, through items or buffs/debuffs, that nothing will count above 40% or 45% (whatever number seems fair). The only exception is soldiers because it's their toolset, so they have no % cap on reflect.

So example...

Trader has reflect graft (13%) and they duel a soldier. Soldier TMS/AMSes and trader lands borrow reflect on them. Soldier loses 30% reflect and trader gains 20%, giving them 33% reflect for 10minutes, after which they lose the 20% and go back to just 13%.

Another example...

Trader has rrfe (32%) and BR's a soldier and debuffs for -30% and takes 20% back. That 20% will only give the trader +8% reflect because of the cap of 40% reflect max. So trader gets 40% reflect for 10 minutes and then back to just having rrfe for 32%.

[heartless888]

Page 2 or 3 I suggested they put caps on %reflect for everyone except soldiers.

This means if you have a way to get 75% reflect, somehow, through items or buffs/debuffs, that nothing will count above 40% or 45% (whatever number seems fair). The only exception is soldiers because it's their toolset, so they have no % cap on reflect.

So example...

Trader has reflect graft (13%) and they duel a soldier. Soldier TMS/AMSes and trader lands borrow reflect on them. Soldier loses 30% reflect and trader gains 20%, giving them 33% reflect for 10minutes, after which they lose the 20% and go back to just 13%.

Another example...

Trader has rrfe (32%) and BR's a soldier and debuffs for -30% and takes 20% back. That 20% will only give the trader +8% reflect because of the cap of 40% reflect max. So trader gets 40% reflect for 10 minutes and then back to just having rrfe for 32%.

wtf? rrfe is 30, the BR buffs 30, not 20, it DEBUFFS 20, not 30, i mean wtf?

[Anarrina]

Apparently I wasn't heard before. Knock off the pointless fighting, or I come back with the infraction stick and start hitting people with it.

[Klanbear]

Oooh Massey Ferguson, powered many a Triumph Sports car - us British know the only way to rule the world is to use a tractor engine in everything

[Dancingrage]

Well I'm sure you realize this already but I'm thinking they really want to push this nano towards very circumstantial on it's use. At TL5 I can see this being heavily used in certain BS situations. I can see this rarely being used at TL7, unless there is some greater strategy to it (i.e. 6 people teamed, trader taking sacrafice on his own reflect to rip reflect off the teams target, knowing he has a doc watching his back ect..).

I think it's a good thing. But there could always be a hardcap on reflect for non-soldiers so traders can keep rrfe? Say...trader has rrfe and they rip TMS/AMS off a soldier to get 20% back to them. Maybe hardcap at 40% or 45% so they keep rrfe and the buff still hits for maximum benefit against the target it just doesn't give maximum benefit to the caster because of the hardcap.

Idk if that makes sense but it sounded ok in my head

The problem with that is it basically screws over a lot of folks who put time and effort into their setups who AREN'T soldiers who want to enjoy a decent to high level of reflect, even if for a short time. This isn't just Shield MPs, at least one other prof could probably break past the 45% cap you're talking about without too much strain, I think, probably more if they wanted to work for it. Going to invalidate all their hard work sorta goes against the whole concept of twinking to begin with.

[Shujiro]

Well if the reflect doesnt stack with rrfe. This nano is completely useless. Even more so if it overrides the reflects we do have, there will be no reason to ever cast it in 99% of AO pvp. If thats the case trader can just join the club of other professions with useless nemi nanos. We wont be the only one.

With that said 60% reflect on a trader isnt right either.

The scales that were made seem good but in my opinion they should be the oposite of how they are. Meaning you gain less reflect then you drain from the target (instead of drain 2% and gain 3%, it would be drain 3% and gain 2%). This would follow more along the lines of our divest and plunder, which give the trader slightly less then they take. This nano should also only last 30 seconds. Then just put a 40% max reflect cap or something on the trader but dont make it kill the reflects the trader already has. This nano would then be good but not over powered.

Or do none of what i said and leave it as is but dont make it override other reflects, as everyone always gets RRFE if their going to pvp. No trader is gonna want to give up their 30% reflect to drain some from a target when 90% of our damage comes from capped aimed shots anyway.



Shujiro/Illtradeya/Evilburrito

[lusthorne]

The problem with that is it basically screws over a lot of folks who put time and effort into their setups who AREN'T soldiers who want to enjoy a decent to high level of reflect, even if for a short time. This isn't just Shield MPs, at least one other prof could probably break past the 45% cap you're talking about without too much strain, I think, probably more if they wanted to work for it. Going to invalidate all their hard work sorta goes against the whole concept of twinking to begin with.

By that logic the re-balancing shouldn't occur because it will screw over a lot of folks who put time and effort into their respective setups.

[Flyingengi]

WTB ninja edit with SL screen shots in it.

I got bored...

Ninja edit!

[lusthorne]

I got bored...

Ninja edit!

Ok... that was really good. I'm still crackin up.

[Hacre]

I got bored...

Ninja edit!

That's brilliant.

It's just missing Hecks chasing it. You need to make one that has Hecks chasing it.

Have someone kite some hecks to somewhere, screenshot it then overwrite the person with your excellent shop of the tractor.

If he pulls this off, I hereby propose that the word "train!" be replaced with "tractor!".

Hell yeah.

[Snakebite]

Get that tractor undercover!!! That's no way to treat a decent MF!!!

[Snakebite]

I got bored...

Ninja edit!

Actualy, that REALY is good! WTB some abandoned vehicles in Pen (possibly not tractors lol)

[Argotach]

I got bored...

Ninja edit!

That is honestly really really good... and very funny

WTB this ingame... maybe as part of a quest or something :P

--Argo

[Hacre]

That is honestly really really good... and very funny

WTB this ingame... maybe as part of a quest or something :P

--Argo

The Phasefront Tractor, hahaha yes.

[Flyingengi]

Have someone kite some hecks to somewhere, screenshot it then overwrite the person with your excellent shop of the tractor.

I'll see what I can do...

[Anarrina]

Actualy, that REALY is good! WTB some abandoned vehicles in Pen (possibly not tractors lol)

There are some (or at least, one). Look around a bit more.

[Flyingengi]

Ok, forget traders. We really need to nerf tractors. They can kite pen hecks O.o

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/c...ndhecklors.jpg

[Cergorn]

I've got to laugh at funcom for the trader br changes

they have gone to so much effort to make br not castable on yourself, and made jokes about about there previous mistakes.
But why the heck would you want to cast it on yourself anyway. You would get less reflect for less duration if you casted it on yourself

loud DOH! directed at means and co for this one

[Dancingrage]

By that logic the re-balancing shouldn't occur because it will screw over a lot of folks who put time and effort into their respective setups.

Indeed, this is probably half the reason that there's so much screaming and fighting both here when info is posted on rebalancing as well as the threads on the Balance forums.

[Saetos]

The only issue with BR I can see here is the global overwrite approach to the buff. If the trader has RRFE already, what is the motivation to bother casting BR at all when it is guaranteed to overwrite it with a 10minute duration buff that might not even provide the same amount of reflect?

The buff from BR should only overwrite an existing reflect buff if the BR buff is greater, such as the buff from a reflect graft getting overwritten by a 30% BR buff.

Going even further, if the trader has RRFE already, the BR buff shouldn't overwrite reflects at all, as that's just swapping a 1hour duration for a 10 minute duration at best or nerfing yourself at worst, which makes no sense.

Completely agree.

Sorry to join the party so late (today's my 19th birthday, festivities ensued...) but damn... this was the last thing I expected. Thanks for taking our ideas into account, I'm sure you made Mikenche really happy