Nemesis Nanos- Why They Need to Go

[Solidstriker]

(If you don't want to read every sentence, then look at the 3 bold sentences for the main points)

This game must constantly be updated and modified to prevent it from stagnating and becoming yesterday's news, which is what the developers have been doing since the creation of Anarchy Online. That being said, there's a difference between implementing ideas that have a massive effect on gameplay and adding new content to bolster the game experience in some smaller aspect. One such example of an idea with a big impact can be found inside the victory points shop: Nemesis Nanos.

The reason these nanos are not acceptable in their current state is because they vary in usefulness and effectiveness relative to each other. While there are some nanos that stand out enough to constantly be heated topics of debate, there are other nanos which are never brought up in arguments. Compare the acronyms BR or RI to BTC or FTI, there's a discrepancy in use amongst these.

Therefore, only two options lay before FC:

1. Completely throw away specific and nonspecific nemesis nanos. RI is at the top of the list. Doubles are supposedly "going away" as the community knows them, and this week's FWM was partly focused on a nemesis nano.. a lot of attention has been placed on nanos found inside the tower shop, past and present- there's a reason for this.
   
2. If the nemesis nanos are kept ingame, they must ALL be modified to a desirable state. Ambiguity aside, the point was mentioned earlier: there's a balance issue between the nanos, some pull down the scale and some have no effect on it whatsoever. Adjustments must be made.

While there should be strengths and weaknesses between professions, they should not be laid out before the community so concretely and decisively that gameplay is shifted to revolve around a 'rock-paper-scissors' mechanism with guaranteed outcomes.

Also, as a final note: even though FC is rebalancing many things and looking into all the aspects of this game, some points must be stressed to ensure that they are not missed.

[Genie]

Also, the nemesis program are biased towards the casting professions. Nemesis is centered on the successful casting of nanos, and casting professions have greater nano skills, and generaly also better nano resist. If the nemesis program would favour the weapon profs, their nemesis effect should be a weapon proc, activated on hit.

But since the entire nemesis program is so completely unbalanced, making one nemesis laughable and the other godlike, the only solution is to remove it from the game completely.

[Solidstriker]

{removed by Anarrina: edited out the response to the pointless bickering}

@Doniger

You bring up a good point. These nemesis nanos are, after all, nanos. There's an inconsistent level of ability between the professions here, and some might have an easier time landing their nanos, while others might spend a few times casting and failing. (For better or worse; Slowdown is what I think of to fit this case) Imagine if the nanos were implemented in the form of perks- there would be different factors to take into account, and the balance would be heavily in favor of people with a lot of AR or AAO vs. having good nanoskills. (In the current state)

Good nanoskills or AR should be taken into account for each profession to offset their strengths and weaknesses, but the scale should not be tipped in one direction because of nanos that deliberately target players based on profession.

[Kinkstaah]

Arent RI, BR and Restrain Enthusiasm the only ones generally worth casting? Nerf those three and we're pretty much where everyone wants to be, yea?

[Avari]

Arent RI, BR and Restrain Enthusiasm the only ones generally worth casting? Nerf those three and we're pretty much where everyone wants to be, yea?

Misdiagnosis is a pain too tbh. It's one of the medium powered nemesis nanos I'd say.

[navycut]

Slowdown is another iwin nemesis nano that needs to go.

[Solidstriker]

There's going to be disagreements about which nanos are actually fight winners and which are time wasters. Views about each nano vary from person to person, so that's not how I want to argue about them.

However, FC giving attention to a single nemesis nano, while completely ignoring the rest (from what they've shown the community so far), is unacceptable because that sends the underlying message that these nanos are fine as they are and should not be modified whatsoever.

Either give the nanos special attention all around the board to antagonize balanced PvP more or remove them completely.

[Avari]

There's going to be disagreements about which nanos are actually fight winners and which are time wasters. Views about each nano vary from person to person, so that's not how I want to argue about them.

However, FC giving attention to a single nemesis nano while completely ignoring the rest (from what they've shown the community so far), is unacceptable because that sends the underlying message that these nanos are fine as they are and should not be modified whatsoever.

Either give the nanos special attention all around the board to antagonize balanced PvP more or remove them completely.

It's actually pretty simple. It seems like people perceive GTH as a nemesis nano, and while it very well could have been it's simply not. Only 14 nanos are a part of the nemesis program, and that's one nano for each profession targeting another profession. My suggestion is to remove all those 14 nanos, and at the same time look over all nanos in an effort to remove the obvious faults like for example GTH.

[Solidstriker]

GTH is not something that I mentioned because it's not a part of the 'Target == Profession' set, like you've mentioned, as well as being enough of a dilemma on its own to be another topic of debate. (Also considering that it's a quest reward + does fit into a trader's toolset, where does FC draw the line!)

Removing all 14 specific nanos would be a way to deal with the problem, yes, so that is as effective a change as any.

[Genie]

If the nemsis program must stay, then I agree that nemesis effects as perks instead of nanos is a very good idea. Then it can reflect the strengths of your profession much better, as you already mentioned.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

imo, slowdown could have the modifiers halved and still be highly effective but not OP'd.

Similarly, Blow your cover could have the same thing: modifiers reduced by half, still be useful, but not OP'd.

Defeat righteousness is an absolute gongshow that needs a completel overhaul. Once cast clears your NCU. It's so stupid.

[Drakeep]

It's actually pretty simple. It seems like people perceive GTH as a nemesis nano, and while it very well could have been it's simply not. Only 14 nanos are a part of the nemesis program, and that's one nano for each profession targeting another profession. My suggestion is to remove all those 14 nanos, and at the same time look over all nanos in an effort to remove the obvious faults like for example GTH.

When i, and i m sure a lot of other too, refers to "nemesis" nano, we more generally refer to the paper scissor pvp mechanism, which nemesis nano are an exemple of, as well as other nanos/tool which are totally over the line. Removing the 14 nano labelled "nemesis" nano by FC isn't exactly what is asked, imo, since some of these nano are totally useless. At the same time, some of these nanos *help* the balance in my opinion (for instance, the NT versus Enfos ones, open to debate ofc, but FC should be able to judge bout that). Removing ALL of em for a rethorical reason could be counter productive in some case.

So, please, don't be so close to the terms. Move the debate to any 1 sided nano, and after that, any 1 sided tool.

[Autofil]

Defeat Righteousness

This does not remove the active buffs the keeper get from the auras, but the aura itselfe.
Making it completely useless as a shade...... Unless you want the keeper to /wrists and spend his next 3 minutes buffing.

[Freor]

Big bump for removing all the nemesis nanos. Very very bad idea to begin with, remove them and concentrate fixing/balancing the real toolsets of each profession. Making these work on everyone like the current plan is with BR is even worse. Like said, casters have it easier to land these, and there are huge differences on their usefullness. While making them "perks" might fix the landing issues, problems remain. Even if you'd bring other nanos to same level with BR (kinda hard, everyone benefits from reflects but for example nanoskills debuff doesnt exactly hurt keeper much compared to say NT), you'd just make spamming one silly nano the most important thing in pvp for each profession (NTs with doubles anyone?).

Remove 'em please.

[Kinkstaah]

Misdiagnosis is a pain too tbh. It's one of the medium powered nemesis nanos I'd say.

I think it's fairly reasonable. Given how powerful doctor heals are now.

Slowdown is another iwin nemesis nano that needs to go.

IMO Slowdown should just be a core nano castable on _anyone_. Keepers should also get a similar style of nano.

A lot of them are good concepts, but in all seriousness, most of them really arent game-winners or even useful. The only ones that generally seem to be gamebreakers are RI, BR, both of which are supposedly getting changed.

They should be generalized and be able to use on anyone, as a general rule though (see: changes to BR)

[Ixiaan]

1. Completely throw away specific and nonspecific nemesis nanos.

This. Giving traders 24/7 ams from BR is a horrible idea, just remove nemesis nanos all together.

[Leamartini]

Defeat Righteousness

This does not remove the active buffs the keeper get from the auras, but the aura itselfe.
Making it completely useless as a shade...... Unless you want the keeper to /wrists and spend his next 3 minutes buffing.

Actually it's like the best nemesis nano. Because it doesn't target the character but the player behind the screen

[2423423]

I think it's fairly reasonable. Given how powerful doctor heals are now.



IMO Slowdown should just be a core nano castable on _anyone_. Keepers should also get a similar style of nano.

A lot of them are good concepts, but in all seriousness, most of them really arent game-winners or even useful. The only ones that generally seem to be gamebreakers are RI, BR, both of which are supposedly getting changed.

They should be generalized and be able to use on anyone, as a general rule though (see: changes to BR)

Let's implement some seriously easy to land nanos that cut absorb in half, hp in half and then perk heals in half as well. Oh and half the efficiency on all perk heals as well.

Deal?

[bitnykk]

In my oppinion it's simply impossible. It's such a delicate balance, that it can't be achieved across 14 professions.

soz but i'm turned to facts : i'll be waiting to see it on rebalance test before joining the "removal QQ" sect we see too much around these days.

imo the balancing must take account of the debuffing, healing, AR power of the different professions. 2 exemples :
- giving BR to trader, wich is a profession with already huge debuff capabilities, was a mistake
- giving Enfos a nemesis that debuff evades, considered their AR+AAO power, was another


so now we know what to NOT do, lets reconsider those nemesis in the rebalance context, instead of being blindly for deletion. that way to make no proposal isn't a proposal i'll consider seriously.

[Kinkstaah]

Let's implement some seriously easy to land nanos that cut absorb in half, hp in half and then perk heals in half as well. Oh and half the efficiency on all perk heals as well.

Deal?

hit fa

done!

Note: Most nemesis nanos are not "easy to land"