I SWEAR TO GOD THAT HAD BETTER NOT BE HDR LIGHTING.
(It'd better be toggle-able if that is HDR or bloom or whatever!)
I SWEAR TO GOD THAT HAD BETTER NOT BE HDR LIGHTING.
(It'd better be toggle-able if that is HDR or bloom or whatever!)
Metalynx, hey, Metalynx!
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"You ate it all already, didn't you?"
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I think it would be quite useful if the contributors to the discussion on BR/GTH would take a bit of time to take a deep breath and calm their tempers before writing more posts on the subject. Discussion is clearly being monitored and listened to. Making strident demands, and cursing at the Dev team, is not at all constructive and certainly a poor method of feedback. I'd rather not have to start cleaning this thread of ranting posts.
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1. Along with these two gamebreakers, could you please take a look at Remedy Inhibitor as well before The Great Rebalancing (tm)? I was thinking, a -50% healefficiency debuff instead of CH blocker would still be a really awesome debuff for Soldiers while not compleeeeetely screwing over the Agent.
2. I concur with the other peoples asking for a removal of the Nemesis system. Some professions (such as Adv, Enf, Keeper, MA, Shade and maybe Soldier) were never even made to cast debuff nanos. Their toolset is not built for it, and it doesn't make sense.
3. Failing that:
- GTH seems very much nerfed - too much really. I would definitely keep the buffing component as it is, or at least not nerf it too much. This is an important part of Trader defense.
- BR "nerf" is actually an extreme chunk of love. I'm sorry Means, but right now the ONLY way to kill a Trader is to alpha kill them ASAP, and giving them a potential 1 minute long 60% reflect is going to make them utterly impossible to kill at all.
- I'm not exactly sure how to "fix" BR at all. Keep in mind though, any increase of Trader defense (ESPECIALLY at low levels!) is a disaster for this game. They're overpowered enough as it is.
Lupusceleri L220/30/70 Agent -- Advisor of Spartans -- equip endgame AR setup endgame def setup <3 Azs wearer of Cheree's pants
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Yes, that is definitely bloom. soo pretty lolOriginally Posted by NixBood
**Proud Squad Commander of Nightmares End**
Aeirilys - 220 Doc RK2
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GTH changes are better but still insanely crazy of a nano drain.
15%/sec for 15s. At 15% of your TOTAL NANOPOOL per second means you will lose ALL your nano in 7 seconds, thats not much different from the way it is now. The only difference is that it lasts for 15s instead of 60s (which is good i guess) but the nano drain itself is still too powerful imo.
It's been my experience in life that if you remove one problem (ie - traders ruining everyone elses fun in pvp), another one takes its place very quickly.
having said that, running into traders in bs (for example), reminds me of the time I was playing paintball and stepped on a giant bee's nest.
the concept of temporarily putting traders aside in pvp (ie - keep traders off of beta test for a period of time) and analyze all the other proffessions fighting without a trader present might actually show real balance issues at play between all the proffessions. or, a hundred other imbalances might surface over time.
In any case, I agree that traders (as they are) really are the x factor that can make mass pvp like crap on toast for the trader's unfortunate victims.
Last edited by Soultrader; Feb 28th, 2010 at 06:11:55. Reason: made a mistake, eh
wtf happened to my avatars eyebrows?
I used to listen to Dubstep in the 90's... every time I connected to the internet.
Not only is this in not keeping in the spirit of Nemesis nanos, but if you were to apply this theory equally over to other professions...the same ones will even more screwed because not everyone has great nanoskill potentials for offensive casting.
The one reliable defense people have is reflects, and now its been considered away to the one profession that already has a explosive impact in PVP?
I would like to go on record by stating that: 10 pounds of crap in one bag - and 5 pounds of crap in another, is still in the end, nothing more than 2 bags of crap.
I hate to sound like that, but that's my honest opinion on the whole thing.Somewhere in the middle of all this, there is the idea there is a dialogue open here to discuss a better option, so lets please skip the crap and get into something a bit more reasonable?
Last edited by Bubbacrush; Feb 28th, 2010 at 09:29:07.
Towerblock, 220/30/70 Engineer
President of Steadfast
And way too many alts...
Not only is this in not keeping in the spirit of Nemesis nanos, but if you were to apply this theory equally over to other professions...the same ones will even more screwed because not everyone has great nanoskill potentials for offensive casting.
The one reliable defense people have is reflects, and now its been considered away to the one profession that already has a explosive impact in PVP?
I would like to go on record by stating that: 10 pounds of crap in one bag - and 5 pounds of crap in another, is still in the end, nothing more than 2 bags of crap.
I hate to sound like that, but that's my honest opinion on the whole thing.
Very well put
Why all the crying about BR anyways? Doesn't the NT LE nukes ignore reflects anyways? I mean doesn't everyone role an NT? I know there is NO shortage of them on RK2. On top of that drains are worth a crap anyways, atleast in mass pvp. BR is the traders only means to try and survive mass pvp. IMO traders need a limber line... with one, traders really would not need a BR or such. Otherwise, please explain how traders can even try and live in mass pvp. On top of that, how much gear is out there to "Counter" GTH and BR etc. Docs, get it, NT's get it. Hell shades can drain nano as fast as GTH (not really, but darn close). Why of all the rebalancing needed is GTH and BR the first? Trader drains in Tl5 and lower is a different story, there I think a rework could help. Shutdown skills is a joke, to quick to be effective. Traders can't heal, NBD drains all the nano anyways and drains can't stop an alpha. I mean how often does plunder land? Even predrained its a pain.
Nerf the reflect ignore on NT's. I know that even in TL5, 2 NT's will 2 shot me, TMS or no TMS. Thats with 7k life lol...
^^THIS. And I could add so many things that I would run over the allocated number of characters per posts.
I think that "cleaning up" the low level legacy annoyances of the game should be a top priority to retain new players and hence rejuvenate the game, which is badly needed. I would speculate that the positive impact would be greater than the new engine. Rebalancing would be clearly last priority as it is targeted at old and grumpy veterans.
Astarra "Esthaer" Hakhamaneshi, Atlantean Clan Female Pistol Nanomage Engineer 220/30/70
Maryam "Mirienne" Hakhamaneshi, Atlantean Clan Female Pistol Solitus Engineer 220/15/60
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Ever played a game where bloom wasn't optional? Even in AoC it's optional.
An option like that is as logical as being able to turn off grass, so rest assured my friend
Personally I like bloom, but then again it depends on what gfx card you have.
Hello
I am only going to post here because i think there is a viable solution to BR without needing to remove it or writing drama posts about it, I'll explain my idea.
In the spirit of "borrowing" which means getting something you do NOT have the solution applied to BR is simple.
1) Make BR be usable ONLY when the trader has less than 10% reflect or no reflect at all.
2) If the BR target has RRFE then the trader gets +30% and the target looses 30%
3) If the target is a soldier with or without ams the trader gets 1/2 the soldiers reflect that means 1/2 of PNS or 1/2 of AMS.
That way Traders will have 30% against all professions, like a permanent RRFE (if they meet condition 1 and 2) and will stand toe to toe on reflection 1/2 and 1/2 with a soldier that has amsed or not (condition 3).
In this condition i think BR could even be spam-able, possibly.
The problem has been resolved no more need for posting on BR.
Funcom hire me as Content Designer !!
Because 1 vs 1 and in small skirmish pvp (which make up for about 99.68% of pvp in ao) it's a game killer if you happened to choose soldier as a main. Now with the "new" br the trader will be able to get the reflect from ANY class. That's 60 seconds with 60% reflects. And as always with zero penalty.
That's why ppl are protesting.
They do. But it has already been stated that they are going away. At least in their current form.
In true mass pvp, where you have say 50+ on each side it really doesnt matter what you do or who you are. When you get called you die. Except if you happen to have 100% reflects and there are no nt's on the opposing side.
You are aware that traders get about 3k defence rating already, right? And that's in addition to the by FAR best pvp toolset in game.
Are you talking about the few % on alpha symbs? Yeah nerf that.. 1 or 2 classes ppl having 3% innate resist is horribul!
Because it's the two most overpowered nanos in game. By about a thousand light years.
Feel free to browse the forums and you will see that a fairly large group of the community feels BR and GTH is at the top of the fix list.
I think anyone who doesn't play trader will agree to that.
It certainly works great on me. Timed well it will make any piano roll alpha fail completely.
http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=273410
Rly?
That's the point. Dmg is absorbed by the nano pool.
Except they do. One divest is all it takes for my soldier to do on avg 2 bullet FA's on a trader. That's with 3800 AR to start with. And yes, divest lands very well, about 80% of the time on me for an undrained trader.
About 20% undrained and 50% pre drained on a 220 soldier.
That's what they are doing.
Last edited by Noob76; Feb 28th, 2010 at 11:01:48.
The question is why?
Traders already have the upperhand against pretty much everyone except nr shades and enforcers. They don't need a huge boost vs anyone. But that's what they are getting it seems.
I really can't see the logic in giving them any kind of boost in pvp. Since they're already number one from level 1 to 220.
What about toning down this new BR version in such a way :
- steal 10/13ish % of someone's reflect, insta cast, 50% NR check, positive effect 1 min on trader, 15 seconds or so on victim, local cooldown if the NR check still failed, like 30 seconds.
So basically everyone keep running with RRFE as it is now, and it gives trader a bit more of mass pvp resistance, while they still rely on other people to have this xtra reflect boost. 13% more reflect is decent enough to notice it, specially combined with heals, it doesn't totally cripple the target in itself, it's a slight boost only.
At the same time keep thinking about a way to make NBD as viable as before, probably by giving GTH's positive effect a longer duration.
I hope trader see the point of 43% regular reflect instead of RRFE, giving em more long term survival, while keeping the NBD role as it is now. Despite not playing a trader, i do understand they don't need BR to deal with soljas. They can just root em during the duration of AMS anyway, like NT, afaik.
Something along these lines. Being moderate.
As stated in some other thread, addition of small defensive tools = cool def toolset in the end. No need to go over the line in each department.
Last edited by Drakeep; Feb 28th, 2010 at 11:14:41.
Soldier in mostly alphas, acdc, eoe, highbie towers. 3700 AR and 1853 NR at the time of testing.
Trader in a similar setup with a mix of scouts and css.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...HZjFFTWc&hl=en
I'm aware that testing with just 10 repetitions is not exactly scientific. At least 500 is needed. But it still gives a rough idea of how often nanos land. And lets not forget that the true result could be lower or higher.
I'll let ppl draw their own conclusions. There are some figures I'd like to highlight though:
Divest landrate is 80% for an undrained trader, 100% if divest is already on the target.
ET has a 90% landrate with divest.
The average FA with divest is 2 bullets with divest.
The average trader AS on soldier is 4900 dmg while the average UNDRAINED burst+fa on the trader is 5300, 3500 with divest.
Consider that this is with 43% reflect on the soldier while the trader had no reflects.
The trader also said that during this brief test her as's were "underwhelming".
My own conclusion: For the ppl that think traders lack defence: Get a grip!
ps. Please forgive the crude spreadsheet. Not enough time.
Last edited by Noob76; Feb 28th, 2010 at 11:16:14.
WTB some of these people playing a trader before they discuss how effective or ineffective their toolset is. Honestly, some of your comments are just plain innacurate and silly. I hope (and trust) that the dev team has the sensibility to realize that and take a lot of these posts with a grain of salt.
honestly people, paper pvp and actual AO pvp are not the same thing...
Proud Member of Paradise
just make it debuff only chemical reflect and buff chemical on the trader
that way traders will hurt more but not gain a huge def boost and the debuff wont ruin the fun of everyone else thats debuffed
i mean why should BR debuff ALL reflect types? so that OTHERS got it easy ASWELL on the target?
with the new changes where all perks follow the dmg type of the main weapon i dont see why they cant just do that
despite all of this though -30% reflects on non AMS soldiers is worse than what BR is right now, cant we just scratch the whole thing and have FUN again please? my perfect idea of AO would be for it to be actually.....FUN and debuffs are the worst things you could imlent to ruin fun, just look at CB and roots for example, it ruins so many peoples fun, the people with those tools would just go back to their main or reroll advy, which are going back melee next patch, there done im happy!
Can NTs get some nano like GTH, weaker version? I know Nano-Techs arent traders, but they could take some nanos and not only give.
Something like reversed PNH?
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lol... I have/play a 220 trader mate, it ain't all that. Granted it ain't super geared, but isn't that the point of balancing? Making it easier to still be viable without all the super uber wtfbqpwnjoo gear? I mean maybe I happen to go up against all the best/most geared people, but I don't last long at all.
Touching on some points:
Plunder is maybe a 35% spell, even predrained. I know, cause I play a 220 trader.
You are right, we can have 3k defence and more, but only after a Corporate protection. Which is normally later on in the fight. I know I don't normally last long enough to DBL drain and get off a GTH/NBD + CP combo.
Shutdown skills well timed can stop an alpha, but lets see... We can be alpha'd in the first 5 seconds, and even if we shutdown skills first, you can just alpha 3 secs later... in which time, we could not have dbl drained or even GTH/NBD combo'd... so 1 dead trader.
Ow and the heal? You are right, that is a great heal, if we plan on playing with 7k life @ 220. Cause other than that, with all the casting we have to do (Drains/GTH/BR/Corporate Prot/Roots/Divest Damage /etc etc) There is not enough time to spam cast our Health Haggler.
And in mass pvp, an 82% AMS for 1:20 is going to keep you alive with even retarded healers. Add in blockers, absorbs etc... A soldier has a lot better shot at staying alive then a trader hands down.
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