Friday with Means - Light at the end of the tunnel - February 26th, 2010

[Herkulease]

Just remove traders from game. 8p

[Drakeep]

fact is its useful, you like it and use it, 90% of us dont even have our nemesis nanos on hotbars

the one shades got dont help win the fight, it is 100% used to piss keepers off and make them leave BS

the one we got on sold cant even be more useless than it is, we cant cast most of the time and shade can still perk us and the dmg is from perks, once again doing nothing at all

the fact that only a handful of people get to use theirs only puts us even more far away from balance.

Actually... Let's assume the following first : without this "nemesis" nano, NTs wouldn't even have the slimest chance against an equally twinked enfo. With this nano, it brings back the fight to an interesting 50/50 (almost). I think this statment is pretty close to reality, but even if you disagree, let's assume it is true, for the sake of it.

Wouldn't that be a nice design if applied to every profession ? In such a way that it makes uneven fight even ? Take soljas for instance, give em a 100% immunity to LE nukes while AMS is up ? (cause NT can just root / blind / manage solja with a lot of other tools). Takes any prof vs prof fight which is uneven, and balance it with a tool specifically designed to bring the fight to 50/50 ?

Instead of touching every single core mechanics that will have numperous consequences noone can predict untill it s massively tested on live during a whole month at least. Or unless dev play the game for real. Look at all the bad consequence FC didn't think about by changing just those 2 little annoying nanos. It's like 1% of what they aiming for.

Gonna be a mess for a year :/

[Boltgun]

Since no one else has asked it, are both suns in perfect alignment for that screenshot?

I only see one set of shadows. The lighting & shadows look really good, but there is only one set.

They're close and rotate around each other (saw this on a video on fast foward). They may be treated as a sunlight and maybe it should only dull shadow more.

But I'm only saying this because that'll make twice the shadows to calculate for little gain. I'd rather have more space for environment lights (the one we'll do with our light cloaks, along with city lights).

If I remember well, there is a spotlight working on metawater suit, maybe it's time to get crazy and put lights on guns and all. The joy it would be to go through a dark dungeon with only the light from a gun flashlight. (with the light cloak working on social we can afford dark places)

[heartless888]

Actually... Let's assume the following first : without this "nemesis" nano, NTs wouldn't even have the slimest chance against an equally twinked enfo. With this nano, it brings back the fight to an interesting 50/50 (almost). I think this statment is pretty close to reality, but even if you disagree, let's assume it is true, for the sake of it.

Wouldn't that be a nice design if applied to every profession ? In such a way that it makes uneven fight even ? Take soljas for instance, give em a 100% immunity to LE nukes while AMS is up ? (cause NT can just root / blind / manage solja with a lot of other tools). Takes any prof vs prof fight which is uneven, and balance it with a tool specifically designed to bring the fight to 50/50 ?

Instead of touching every single core mechanics that will have numperous consequences noone can predict untill it s massively tested on live during a whole month at least. Or unless dev play the game for real. Look at all the bad consequence FC didn't think about by changing just those 2 little annoying nanos. It's like 1% of what they aiming for.

Gonna be a mess for a year :/

an NT can choose to never die to an enf, CB, root, bye bye, it isnt about balance, its about the fun being sucked out of the game :s

[gimpmasta]

So just to be clear, is it only traders that will get the bonus +30 reflects from BR? or will all profs get that?

[navycut]

Yeah I have no idea why they are trying to fix these stupid things, noone likes nemesis nanos. Please don't fix them, just remove the damn things from ingame.

[Drakeep]

@ Heart :

I don't understand your answer, NT's nemesis nano doesn't change anything if NT wishes to just CB twice and root the enfo.

But that wasn't the point, except vaguely what you said about the fun factor, but need more precisions, not sure you mean what i have in mind.

[blackhawks]

In my opinion the best possible for the nemesis nano's are to adjust the ones that seem unbalanced such as BR/GTH and from what ive just tried on test this is not a nerf its proby more OP than it was before the trader can now basically keep his reflect at 60% for the whole duration of a BS. How can a nemesis nano be called that if the whole idea of them in the first place was to give a profession X a 50/50 chance against profession Y not give traders an extra 30% reflect from all profs. Althought GTH adjustment seems reasonable.

REMOVE Borrow Reflect or tone it down traders can already OWN Soldiers without it, 1 drain and a sold cannot AMS anyway and then the trader can just drain his AR to dust.

[Tlatoani]

Moar trader <3 ?

Fantastic Funcom, keep up the good work!

[meatybtz]

Just remove traders from game. 8p

I hate to say it but, he is actually right.

Funcom doesnt know what the hell to do with traders and players are nothing but a bunch of whiney children when they get debuffed by a debuffing prof.


The problem is that, no one really knows what to do with traders in this game. From PVM to PVP Traders are unballanced, their toolkit is useless in PVM and pisses people off in PVP (big suprise no one likes being dissabled, but being that is all a trader is designed to do you get a conflict in PVP).

Of all the profs in this game Traders are the ones that have not fit "right" since SL was released. Take away a traders debuffs, and they cant do jack in PVP. Leave them in and people whine. Traders are possesed of a 100% useless Tool-kit for PVM.


I am sure like everything else FC wont fix it. Just like they adamantly refuse to rebuild the legacy parts of the game that are useless hangers on that confuse lowbies. Things like NPC shops and general stores that sell items that make no sense. Whose QL spread is illogical. The game is full of content that is depreciated by newer content to the point of being pointless. And all they want to do with AO is: Stick More Bits On Cuz dat Makez It Betta. I keep expecting them to paint everything red, to make it go fasta.

AO has enough bits and bobs stuck on at odd angles. What it needs is to be cleaned up, depreciated stuff removed or updated for relevance. This ties into the Prof Reballance, esp with the We Dont Know What To Do With Them Traders. Grasping in the dark for random answers is not it.

From SL-->LE traders were useless outside of lowbie PVP. So player expectations was to not even be bothered. Since PVP is really nothing but a bunch of Epeening, people do not like it when the assumed puny prof inconviences them. Too bad you, FC, spent all those years feeding peoples perceptions till now they are entrenched and bitchy. This stuff should have all been fixed years ago.

I cant recall who said it, but it goes like: As long as the only way to level is combat, every prof should have a fair piece of the combat pie. The same actually goes for PVP. Everyone should have a fair piece of the combat pie in PVP. People hate debuff profs like traders because it takes traders a week to debuff them then another week to finnish the job. How is that fun for the trader or for the target?

Then again, I don't think AO PVP is fun by a long shot. It used to be more fun when one could be competetive casually.

[Avari]

The major problem with the changes to the GTH and BR nanos, is that it adds to mechanics that make no sense. At the moment we have:

1. Low HP is better than high HP for certain professions.
2. Dying is preferable to be hit with GTH.
3. NTs sometimes prefer to suicide rather than refill 45k nano pool.

Now we're about to add:

4. <30% reflect is better than >=30% reflect.



I wish we'd see mechanics that actually make sense, and not mechanics that defies all kinds of logic. Having high HP should be good, having high reflect should be good, and dying should be the least desirable thing in any scenario what-so-ever.

I honestly wish the nemesis nanos would just go away. The nanos have never been balanced, and they've never been any fun to any but the few lucky ones on the casting end of a powerful one. I don't want to be the nemesis of someone. I just want balanced PvP that encourages team play, and leaves you with a chance to beat the odds if you're good enough.

[XenonDe]

So just to be clear, is it only traders that will get the bonus +30 reflects from BR? or will all profs get that?

Only traders can cast it, so yeah only traders could remove the reflects and thus only they gain the +30 Reflects in turn.

[Tlatoani]

Borrow Reflect:

...

1. This nano is now usable on ANY profession who currently has more than 24 ReflectMeleeAC at the current moment. (Has reflect to "borrow")

2. The Debuff component of this nano is now -30 to all Reflect types. The Duration is now also reduced to 15 seconds. Significant...but not the complete removal of a professions defense that it was before.

Hai guys.

[Towerblock]

nice changes... sucks i unsubscribed and uninstalled AO already though

As much as I'd like to think this is good news... There are other things that like to pop up every now and then in people's lives for fun and lulz... like herpes.

[Saetos]

Hai guys.

Because draining purely Melee AC with a Shotgun class makes sense?

[Obtena]

id love to meet your enf without rrfe in BS ....

Sorry, I have enough fish today. I guess you have red herring on sale? I failed to make the connection between an Enfo PVPing without RRFE and how BR has been changed.

And yes, sorry, people do PVP without RRFE and it's irrelevant anyways

[Avari]

And yes, sorry, people do PVP without RRFE and it's irrelevant anyways

Only if they're forced to it, ie. if there's no soldiers around.

[Ashes2Ashes]

I hate to say it but, he is actually right.

Funcom doesnt know what the hell to do with traders and players are nothing but a bunch of whiney children when they get debuffed by a debuffing prof.


The problem is that, no one really knows what to do with traders in this game. From PVM to PVP Traders are unballanced, their toolkit is useless in PVM and pisses people off in PVP (big suprise no one likes being dissabled, but being that is all a trader is designed to do you get a conflict in PVP).

Of all the profs in this game Traders are the ones that have not fit "right" since SL was released. Take away a traders debuffs, and they cant do jack in PVP. Leave them in and people whine. Traders are possesed of a 100% useless Tool-kit for PVM.


I am sure like everything else FC wont fix it. Just like they adamantly refuse to rebuild the legacy parts of the game that are useless hangers on that confuse lowbies. Things like NPC shops and general stores that sell items that make no sense. Whose QL spread is illogical. The game is full of content that is depreciated by newer content to the point of being pointless. And all they want to do with AO is: Stick More Bits On Cuz dat Makez It Betta. I keep expecting them to paint everything red, to make it go fasta.

AO has enough bits and bobs stuck on at odd angles. What it needs is to be cleaned up, depreciated stuff removed or updated for relevance. This ties into the Prof Reballance, esp with the We Dont Know What To Do With Them Traders. Grasping in the dark for random answers is not it.

From SL-->LE traders were useless outside of lowbie PVP. So player expectations was to not even be bothered. Since PVP is really nothing but a bunch of Epeening, people do not like it when the assumed puny prof inconviences them. Too bad you, FC, spent all those years feeding peoples perceptions till now they are entrenched and bitchy. This stuff should have all been fixed years ago.

I cant recall who said it, but it goes like: As long as the only way to level is combat, every prof should have a fair piece of the combat pie. The same actually goes for PVP. Everyone should have a fair piece of the combat pie in PVP. People hate debuff profs like traders because it takes traders a week to debuff them then another week to finnish the job. How is that fun for the trader or for the target?

Then again, I don't think AO PVP is fun by a long shot. It used to be more fun when one could be competetive casually.

I totally agree with this sentiment. Something I mentioned last week:

The scope, and magnitude of some debuffs in game warrant OP toolsets/items to compensate. If you reduce/eliminate the debuffs, boost the professions that had to rely on the debuffs to be competitive in pvp. Then rebalancing becomes a hell of alot easier of a task.

When you can cripple a profession to the point where they can do nothing to the debuffer in return, we have a rock paper scissors scenario. There is too much of that currently in game. It's not productive, or fun to be on the recieving end of it. People will just go and find something else better to do.

If you are going to rebalance the game. Please take a long look at the debuffs in game, and realize how much of an impact they have in the whole balancing scheme of things. Adding more powerful debuffs, unbreakable, uber ect... debuffs do not make a game fun. Quite the contrary, so yes, please bring out the big ole' nerfstick of doom, and whack away alot of these debuffs in game.

Severely cut down the power, and scope of these all. Do boost professions that need it from loosing thier debuff crutch.

Like I mentioned, boost the professions that heavily rely on debuffs (better weapons/toolset/support/damage mitigation/ect...). Tone down/remove those debuffs that make the game un-fun (I think most will agree here). Give everyone an equal shot at killing someone else, allow skill to come into play, rather than OP Iwin nanos.

People want an equal chance to pvp someone else. Afterall, whats the point of a brand new "Rebalancing Act" if it's not going to rebalancing anything, just add more Iwin (rock/paper/scissors) options. This is what I see alot of community asking for. Will it ever happen? One can only hope. But nevertheless I voice my opinion on the matter.

Your in the middle of the "Rebalancing Act". Please take the time to rebalance, unstead of unbalance it further with rehashing the nemesis nanos into an even more disatrous form. Also take a look at what makes the game "Un-Fun" for players and make adjustments there, both in pvp, and in pvm.

If you boost the core of the "debuffing" profession to a reasonable level, then thier debuffs don't have to be as strong/annoyingly OP. Both sides win here, and you restore that fun factor in for everyone. Why do debuffs have to be horrendously strong? If you made the proffesion itself stronger, then that lil extra (small) debuff can turn the tide in thier favor without the need for overkill debuffs.

[Ceenah2]

LE nuke get remove and this BR/GTH remain >_>

[bitnykk]

remove all the people that QQ for removal, plx

(omg i just made a larsen joke)