Should "Average" setups exist?

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Dood, the whole game is changing. Preparing for some small aspect of of such a grand shift in everything from profession toolsets to game mechanics is like wearing a dust mask in preparation for a nuclear holocaust. Yeah, you won't inhale much dust but never mind how everything else will change, you've still got that covered. You have little to no clue how things are going to wind up, the game director himself states every week that they haven't even concretely decided how to change a multitude of facets of the game. Yet you're gimping yourself in preparation for the second coming of christ. Get real, dood.

Point taken, but, due to technical difficulties, and the relative frustration of hotswapping bugs while running in mass PVP, and suddenly finding yourself in a position where you're unable to heal due to having a bow equipped is immensely annoying. My killing power isn't great, with a non-hotswap setup, but, my survival is awesome, and due to being war leader, non-death+non-killing>>>>killing+death

If I'm wasting your time... why keep responding? And what does me being on Rk1 have to do with shensticks?

Read the MA's forums, RK1 nabs believe that it's impossible to pvp with shensticks.

Truly your logic is impeccable. Especially since I said nothing about killing crats or fixers as an MA, I just eluded to their evades. You claim to beat some of the top PvPers on Rk2 and yet you simultaneously claim MA evades are 'average' and that MAs also have no alpha?

yes to all of those things. But I don't see how they are related.

And I think trying new setups is a good thing, part of what I love about AO is diversity. But sticking with an inferior setup out of some odd

I'll interject here: There's nothing "odd" or "personal" about trying out something due to slow internet. It's about making use of a profession that suffers serious setbacks in mass PVP while being still effective

personal principle and then applying it to the rest of an entire class is just ignorant - which is what you seemingly do with all your posts.

what?

Although I'll give credit where it's due, the ones where you try to sound like youre knowledgeable about other classes, esp. keepers are at least entertaining. Not exactly sure what to say about the 'princess' comment except... thanks?

I only make posts about classes I'm intimately familiar with.

{edited by Anarrina: removed offtopic comment}

[navycut]

Read the MA's forums, RK1 nabs believe that it's impossible to pvp with shensticks.

I are from RK2 and I believe its impossible to pvp effectively with shens.

Lets see, with shens: No alpha, more damage from reflect/dmg shields, 50% crit reduction applied to shen stick in pvp rules, inability to kill evaders... um, what's good about shens again? And I see no RK2 MAs ever using shens in pvp unless they're pvm and tryin to farm vp.

Oh and yes MAs do have crappy evades in relation to their overall defense, if we had better healing and run speed and stuff our evades could prob stay the same.


Oh and wtf you are 'practising' for the balance by using shens? You dunno what's going to happen that's crazy talk trying to practise for something you got absolutely no clue about.

[Hacre]

if MA's don't have AR, we have zero killing power, compared to other profs who have AS/SA

Like...MAs?

[crattey]

I only make posts about classes I'm intimately familiar with.

1. Fixer
2. SoZ MP
3. Crat
4. MA
5. M Advy
6. R Advy
7. Keeper
8. Agent
9. Trader
10. Bow MP
11. Enforcer
12. Soldier
13. Doc
14. Engineer

Why hallo thar.

[Gatester]

All right now, no one can derail a thread I start unless I'm the one doing it!!!

MA's really do not have that much trouble. They are not an "average" profession either.

[Taranide]

Dunno, I'd say MA are pretty much balanced. Fair damage and pretty good situational/static evades. For now.

[Burgly]

Dunno, I'd say MA are pretty much balanced. Fair damage and pretty good situational/static evades. For now.

I'd say the same thing, more leaning towards above average then below imo.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

They are balanced in duel situations and thats all.

Most of our defenses/attacks have very long recharges, ES- 10 mins, hhab - 10 mins, dimach - 9 mins.

In duels ppl tend to not kite as well, 2.3 run speed isn't exactly reasonable on a melee prof.

So in duels, sure MAs are pretty well off. Otherwise, no.

QFT. And that was what i was talking about. Im in an average setup, geared for mass PVP, and it's barely average.

survival is a hassle and with the number of nasty debuffs flying around, MA's are VERY often, right on the cusp of getting perked into next week.

MA's would be fine if: we had better comparative runspeed, our opponents didn't use speedhax, and slowdown wasn't on every enforcers hotbar.

you se how many enforcers are in PVP? theres one around every corner waiting for an MA to pop so he can finally use his nemesis nano.

I end up tanking damage more than evading it, and that is why i say MA's have average evades. If I'm healing perk, special and normal damage... it's not exactly crap hot evades.

[Kinkstaah]

Who's crying? I'm not blaming FC that aussie internet is , I just have to play according to my limitations, which, currently, are no hotswaps. Which, as it turns out, is what the core of the MA profession is, fists.

Or you could get over it and learn to play properly. I live in australia. There are plenty of fraps videos of me using hotswaps very effectively on an agent, the australian interenet is not the problem here.

I'm not sold on keeper evade close. Can anyone give me a number for what a normal setup keeper evade close+AAD is at 220?
like their normal setup without retarded concessions, like, mystical force, or all CSS, or what have you.. like, a normal setup they use for normal playing

I liked the graph before someone had. If an enforcer runs up with challenger proc, with challenger running, in a perfect setup and cannot perk something due to its passive evades, then those evades are insanely high. Flat out ignoring someone's entire alpha should require a button press. The fact that it doesnt means evades are far, far, far better than "average"

MA's would be fine if: we had better comparative runspeed, our opponents didn't use speedhax, and slowdown wasn't on every enforcers hotbar.

2300 selfed runspeed is not 'bad'.

you se how many enforcers are in PVP? theres one around every corner waiting for an MA to pop so he can finally use his nemesis nano.

In the real world at TL7, a MA is an Enf nemesis. The enf nemesis nano is one of the worst, and if you dont have MR, a MA can safely ignore it anyway.

I end up tanking damage more than evading it, and that is why i say MA's have average evades. If I'm healing perk, special and normal damage... it's not exactly crap hot evades.

Yeah it is, compare it to actually being hit with everything. Or IPR evades and unperk acrobat. There will be a noticable difference.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Or you could get over it and learn to play properly. I live in australia. There are plenty of fraps videos of me using hotswaps very effectively on an agent, the australian interenet is not the problem here.

satellite. I'm not here permanently. but my orgmate who's also using grounded internat also gets his ass handed to him by lag/ LD's.

I liked the graph before someone had. If an enforcer runs up with challenger proc, with challenger running, in a perfect setup and cannot perk something due to its passive evades, then those evades are insanely high. Flat out ignoring someone's entire alpha should require a button press. The fact that it doesnt means evades are far, far, far better than "average"

I wasnt' aware of that. I don't believe you, I think that keeper must have been in a specialized setup, and, I've never heard of a enf having trouble with keeper in a duel regardless of "zomg high evades" SA is easily enough offense to whittle away at Keeper HP until keeper goes gown eventually or enforcer succumbs to damage, eitherway, it's a even fight if anything.

2300 selfed runspeed is not 'bad'.

I got no idea where you get this number, i've got about 2100 with velocity+quickness. If you add a graft and gladiator, sure, but, I don't play wolfed/ and with glad, I need evades, or I'm toast.

In the real world at TL7, a MA is an Enf nemesis. The enf nemesis nano is one of the worst, and if you dont have MR, a MA can safely ignore it anyway.

This is the bigest BS statement in your post. The enf nemesis nano is one of the strongest and most OP'd, youre fully full of crap if you can't make it work. "MA can safely ignore it" is the most retarded thing I've heard all day. the ONLY time a MA can AVOID it, is if he's already got ES up. otherwise no

[crattey]

I liked the graph before someone had. If an enforcer runs up with challenger proc, with challenger running, in a perfect setup and cannot perk something due to its passive evades, then those evades are insanely high. Flat out ignoring someone's entire alpha should require a button press. The fact that it doesnt means evades are far, far, far better than "average"

With all the keeper/advy/MA/fixer talk, I always feel left out

Keep in mind that for some professions, as in crats, those evades are all they have. If perks land, they go splat instantly. No heals, no absorbs, no acro.

Keepers have the health, coon and rather good heals to overcome incoming damage.
MAs and fixers have some healing, and acrobat for some 'relaxing' time. The low recharge and relatively long duration on acrobat are a massive advantage, considering you can use it advance, without spending the next ten minutes without.
Advies, well, we all know what they have.

Being unperkable is an absolute requirement for crats to even think of entering a PvP area. We already die rather quickly to SA/AS, regular hits, nukes, DoTs and the wobbly wibbly soldiers who every so often manage to cap both FA and burst. If people start perking us, we're alpha meat for every single profession, with pretty much nothing you can do about it.

Just a footnote, really, but worth mentioning when people start suggesting rather casually that perking someone isn't a big deal

[Burgly]

With all the keeper/advy/MA/fixer talk, I always feel left out

U and me both

[Gatester]

An enf has much much MUCH more run speed than you so if you get into any trouble you can just you know... run away from the MA, while you as an enf can dump 2 capping perks, a SA some regulars maybe some AI perks if your proc is up on the MA.

150 Miles per hour and 160 Miles per hour is not that big a difference, and neither is 2300 and 2500 for melee profs. If you are an idiot and run in a straight line, then yes you are not going to get away. So excluding the people that think kiting involves shift+W, running away on an MA is not an issue as with any CC resistance profession over 2000 runspeeed.

Also, MA's have runspeed boosters and snares on some of their attacks, they have a fear line, and they have a few stuns to make use of. So MA's can not only hit the capped level of RS, they can also slow down their opponent.

And yeah saying slowdown is the worst nano is plain retarded, it's an iwin nano and if you ever play a MA you will know what I mean. Once it lands, you are dead. Plain and simple, unless the enf is the crappiest thing alive or unless you have ES up

In mass pvp with DoF down it MAY get you killed on a good MA. If you are referring to one on one fights then you have lost your credibility to speak for any MA. 1550 nanoskill Attack Rating is almost impossible to land on 3200-4000 nano resist (depends on your UWOS and if NR is perked), it has a capped cast time of 1.5 seconds which means you can interrupt its casting with every hit, and you have enough def with DoF alone to ignore all but two champion perks with slowdown running (buggy never-miss 1hb exluded).

If that wasn't enough, good MA's can outheal an enforcer alpha, and being immune to our stuns means there is a very rare chance for us to actually prevent the MA from healing. When MA's die to enfs its because they didn't react properly to our offense.