I don't agree that MA's have a good alpha. We have a good alpha IF we hotswap.Originally Posted by navycut
Considering hotswapping will be gone in balance, I'd say it's best to assess MA on core abilities. therefore, our alpha is BRAWL! BISH! Take it again! give me 15 seconds. and perks.
Your SA hotswap is going somewhere?
lol ok and docs have good heals if they click the button to heal, otherwise they have crap heals!
It's stupid to choose to not use what you have atm then cry that you don't have xyz.
Oh and btw, keepers do have very good evade close, not average as you claim.
Good point.
Who's crying? I'm not blaming FC that aussie internet is , I just have to play according to my limitations, which, currently, are no hotswaps. Which, as it turns out, is what the core of the MA profession is, fists.
granted, I missed dimach in my verbatim verbal alpha: here I'll do it again for awesome effect:
MA alpha: q, Brawl!, .... ........ ...... .. .....Brawl! woot! DOF is down! FoL, perks! Brawl! dimach! nerf.
I'm not sold on keeper evade close. Can anyone give me a number for what a normal setup keeper evade close+AAD is at 220?
like their normal setup without retarded concessions, like, mystical force, or all CSS, or what have you.. like, a normal setup they use for normal playing
Because, on my TL5 keeper, with a Evade close/AR setup needed to fight a MA or advy, I'm sitting around 1900-1950 static Evade close+AAD, which is not even close to enough to dodge a enf/MA/advy on a regular basis or on perk alpha. Of course, thats in evade setup, which is not an option duel to the absolute necessity of keepers to engage in an opponent offensive setup with any hope of killing them, therefore, vs profs like MA, advy, or shade, an evades oriented setup is spectacularly unsuccessful.
Therefore, in a setup in which I have any hope of kiling an advy or MA, the evade close rating is closer to 1800-1850
Last edited by Anarrina; Feb 24th, 2010 at 21:12:31. Reason: How many more times would you like is to ask you to quit using profanities and obscenities in your posts before you listen?
Keepers don't have acrobat, we got it by now..
blah
As to the OP:
I do beleive a few profs have valid 'middle grounds' as to it comes in setups. Most of my experience is naturally on shade, but having an offensive rarm and a defensive larm is pretty much the middleground for us. Not that we can expect to do anything in pvp with that. But some pvm encounters are suited for such a choice. I use it when im really tired and want to hunt notum scourges, for example.
Also i've opted for CM over CC for soloability/tankability over the implied crit from higher AR from CC, while not grabbing every last sliver of evades and aad, that would be the best option for a solo'er.
I assume a fixer or soldier would use some CC and some CSS.
But normally, one wants to fulfill a role, and to fulfill that role will be to focus greatly on one aspect of the toon. Be it tanking ability for an enf, or damage on an MA. Balance within that will naturally be up to the player, some enfs like aad, some like hp, some feel the need for damage to keep agro, some again feel that an unending nanopool would make tanking easy...
And not to mention the 'ultimate' status of the alpha symbs. They are generally better in every aspect to any other option. Not using them will generally be a worse option. And thus, it becomes the only option. Making any "average" sollution moot.
Proud member of the Wolf Brigade, a supporter of the NDI.
{Edited by Corwynn - Profanity, even badly spelt, is against the forum guidelines}
tl5.
Member of Spartans
Hacre/Solitus/Keeper/220/29/70 - Ninpopotamus/Solitus/NT/220/30/70 - Charmming/Opifex/Crat/220/30/70
Genius at work.
So, keeper has below average to average evades, MA has average evades... I guess everything depends on the scale:
Code:<-----------------------------------------------------------> Abysmal Poor Gimpy Mediocre Below-average Average Good
Eroz, finally 220/26/70 Adventurer & proud General of Regulators on ex-RK2 (outdated) equip
Rokroland, 170 Engineer No more crab for j00 Northern Front on ex-RK2
Ranged roxxorz!
Sig last updated properly when West Athens still had people sitting about the subway.
As I read more and more, and see more feedback from other players, it seems that the only thing complained about more than singularly overpowered abilities or stats are setups that are average or slightly above average in several areas. I'm going to pose the question to everyone and actually avoid commenting if I can (If you lie or misrepresent stats I'm calling you out) and see what the reactions are. I'm more interested in the mindset of everyone than trying to prove either side wrong. Afterall, if I am in the minority I think it would be better to shift my own goals.
Should "average" setups exist in AO? Should profs be allowed to have moderate evades, damage mitigation, defenses, heals, attack rating, damage etc altogether, or should they be forced to choose a few abilities to have considerable advantages in and almost nothing in others?
Another way to think about it would be, should professions be able to adjust to almost any kind of attack and defense with a single setup, or should setups force players to have considerable advantages in some areas and weaknesses even greater than what we have currently in the rest?
Adventurers or Soldiers should be the closest we have to the two types right now. Both professions can in fact be considered close to balanced as well (disregarding everything other professions have or lack causing imbalance), as adventurers do not excel in any area asside from healing (thus throwing off their completely average level), and soldiers have an extreme on and off defense for damage mitigation but no other considerable defenses as well as an extreme damage reliant offense with no other means of killing opponents (RI does not count
That is as much input as I can put forth, try not to nitpick my advy and soldier example if you can lol, in this case its the thought that counts
You just listed, arguably, the two most all-around powerful characters in AO, right now.
You can make arguments for one or two others, weak ones anyways. But, I'd call Fixers the kings of the type of mediocrity you are espousing. We are weak to moderate in everything we do except evades, which are no longer greatly useful in high-end pvp.
Fixers have too many high points and low points to call them an all-around average profession. Calling fixers weak-moderate in everything they do is rather generic and shares the style of complaint that McKnuckle usually shows, which I am sure is not the best example of the profession.
This is not a who is the gimpest thread, this thread is in regards to wether setups should or should not exist. If you can, do not confuse ease-of-use with powerful either.
I would also like to point out that while players demonstrating exceptional ability with a profession beyond the general populations use should not be used to guage a professions ability, players with subpar levels of skill and effort should also be avoided as a tool for garnering support for a profession in need of positive boosting.
And, no, eroz, MA's only have average Evades. MA's are super dependant on AR, so we have to gear for AR, if MA's don't have AR, we have zero killing power, compared to other profs who have AS/SA, for example, and can sit there with retarded static evades and cap you to death.
MA might fall into the high range, but only barely. look at who we'd be contending with: Imo, MA's are well below the three evaders in the top spot for static defence.
Heres my interpretation of evades, STATIC, going from best to worst:
(static is important, because,MA's have decent perkable defence, but, we also have retarded debuffs, like slowdown) Green= high evades, gray= average, Red=low
1. Fixer
2. SoZ MP
3. Crat
4. MA
5. M Advy
6. R Advy
7. Keeper
8. Agent
9. Trader
10. Bow MP
11. Enforcer
12. Soldier
13. Doc
14. Engineer
Last edited by McKnuckleSamwich; Feb 25th, 2010 at 06:04:38.
Forgot NTs too. But I guess NTs and shades are heavily setup dependant. I go from 2.3k def to 2.8k def on my NT switching from DD to evade gear on demand.
Techno "Calamite" Witch -- 220/22 soli crat
Hbar -- 220/28 nano NT
Electropanic -- 170/17 opi NT
Insanenomore - 174/17 soli engi
Darksmile -- 220/21 nano enf
Drifting -- 150/8 nano MP
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
got more, but don't remember their names
Your various 'interpretations' are exactly why everyone ignores your opinion and no one takes you seriously. How exactly does being unperkable by almost everyone without MR make MA evades 'average?' Are you kidding me? And as far as zero killing power goes... well you should ask some other MAs for some advice because that's not true at all; good MAs can really hurt almost any profession... or are you one of those people who is stubborn/ignorant enough to pvp with shensticks and then still complains?
wow. evil.
nobody ignore me. You just proved it.
Being unperkable to "almost everyone" without MR is wrong. Just because you can't doesn't mean others can't.
Average means that they aren't in the range of extremely high end. That should be obvious. no, I'm not kidding you.
I don't need advice you presumtuous fool. I'm practicing PVPing without AS hotswap in preparation for Balancing. I'm exploring the possibilities of how well an MA can function sans AS/SA.
Whats wrong with shensticks? I've beat some of the best PVPers on RK2 using alternative setups. You don't think shensticks are any good? I challenge you then. I'll use shensticks, you use whatever you want.
Currently I'm using a shenstick and a Obfuscating dagger for FA and SA. It's exceptionally useful for interupting casting profs during casts. conventional? no, useful? yes.
Ha. So it turns out my shot in the dark about shensticks was infact correct. Shocker. And what exactly do you define as 'extremely high end?' Only fixers? Crats for a few seconds? I think my point is fairly obvious. No, I'm not kidding you. And apparently my foolish presumtions are correct. Another shocker. You choose to pvp in a suboptimal setup (shensticks) and then complain how MAs don't do enough damage in pvp and how you want to function without AS/SA (even though you'll still be able to use one of them anyway). Maybe I should log my trader and put on a scoped salabim shotgun and pvp with it, since traders aren't getting the secondary AS-based attack agents are getting - I guess I should get used to it now! Oh wait, that would be retarded. I have no problem with unconventional setups infact I think theyre great. But pleading ignorance because you choose to seperate your character from the majority of the rest of said profession with one then arguing on their behalf just doesn't make sense. Then again I've also seen you claim that "you're not convinced Keepers have above average Evade-Clsc,' even after several tl7 keepers chimed in and told you that you were incorrect.
what does ignorance have to do with anythign I said?
I've used SoFC hotswap, I've used SOFC+sapph hotswap.
I've won lots, and lost lots. I've beat some of the top PVPers on RK2. Sure, hotswaps bring a world of pain to some profs, but, it's unreliable, and, it's ABOUT TO BE NERFED.
So, get a grip, get off the "I'm a cookie cutter queen" horse, stop wasting my time, and don't insult me if youre not going to back it up with anything other than heresay.
You're a flaming RK1 nub if you think that an MA can't PVP with shensticks. MA's are one of the most versatile profs. If you can't do it, you're lost in a world of suck.
Yes, shensticks aren't good for killing crats and fixers. But, theres a time and a place. And, part of what is being "balanced" out of game is the fist+bow+spear hotswap, so, if you don't see the wisdom in trying out new setups, your PVP skills in game are goign to soon be worse than you Forum PVP skills.
So, suck it up princess; try out something different, and figure out how to make it work, cuz, right now your crutch is being phased out.
Dood, the whole game is changing. Preparing for some small aspect of of such a grand shift in everything from profession toolsets to game mechanics is like wearing a dust mask in preparation for a nuclear holocaust. Yeah, you won't inhale much dust but never mind how everything else will change, you've still got that covered. You have little to no clue how things are going to wind up, the game director himself states every week that they haven't even concretely decided how to change a multitude of facets of the game. Yet you're gimping yourself in preparation for the second coming of christ. Get real, dood.
Waiting for a cure.
If I'm wasting your time... why keep responding? And what does me being on Rk1 have to do with shensticks? Truly your logic is impeccable. Especially since I said nothing about killing crats or fixers as an MA, I just eluded to their evades. You claim to beat some of the top PvPers on Rk2 and yet you simultaneously claim MA evades are 'average' and that MAs also have no alpha? Also before you continue to insult my lack of forum pvp skill, you might want to actually form a legitimate sentence. And I think trying new setups is a good thing, part of what I love about AO is diversity. But sticking with an inferior setup out of some odd personal principle and then applying it to the rest of an entire class is just ignorant - which is what you seemingly do with all your posts. Although I'll give credit where it's due, the ones where you try to sound like youre knowledgeable about other classes, esp. keepers are at least entertaining. Not exactly sure what to say about the 'princess' comment except... thanks?
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