Everything above level 20 is bad. People can twink level 30-50 nanos at 15.. You need to add a flag to buffs that are casted by people outside your level range that are removed at upon entering grace or getting flag. QL is the wrong way to go about it.
that was just an example to present the concept, obviously it would be a more appropriate lvl range (again, based on the toon in questions lvl)Originally Posted by Original
""Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall" --- Confucius""
too many alts to list, inquire for info. specialties: froobs, fixer, MA, advy, trader/NT
i'm soz but it doesn't ! again Osb ain't the problem cause nerfing them would nerf ALL professions depending on it. plus we don't want traders (nor agents) to be nerfed in PVM nor Twinking.
we don't want to remove the possibility for traders to get insane AR and land their drains (skill, aao, hp, nano) easily.
our problem is traders can ladder drains with no limit that cripple any target almost completely @ tl1/2 and a lot of professions more than acceptably @ tl3/4.
the only reasonnable way i see so far to balance : limiting what can land on PVP target NCU making weapons and AR totally useless & killing diversity, challenge and fun at the same time.
QL is not the way to do it, a flag or mark on buffs cast outside the level range of the target which are wiped is as you're not limiting what a player can do on their own, just what lvl buff can be cast on them.. If you team with an MP at towers and cast higher buffs that are then wiped cause they're slightly higher ql?
I'm soz, but please read the whole post, it clearly says nothing about PvM or twinking, they will ALL be kept the same in my suggestion as OBs are removed on entering grace/getting flag.. you do this in PvM/twinking much? And it wouldn't NERF any profession it would mean that professions don't get tonnes of OBs that gives certain professions more advantages. From what I've seen selfed PvP is much more balanced than OBd PvP where trader wins. Period. You can't make balance with OBs in the game as OBs lend themselves better to certain professions.
Drains have a limit. Mochams increase that limit hugely at tl1/2. Selfed low level traders are NOT OP unless predrained which is a different issue. Lower duration might help this?
nerfing OSB will nerf several other professions too, you know it ... so i'm not even arguing there, it's so obvious you don't nerf everybody because you got 1 profession is over the top ! that's totally non-sensed !!11!
beside that, idk if self PVP is more balanced but i know it's less fun. somehow PVP in AO is related to OSB (fixer, sold, enfo, engi, mp, nt, agt ... that's so rich !) so i don't want to see that complex and interesting aspect killed, but simply balanced. that's what people ask around !
so in the end the only profession i think need some capping @ low title PVP is Trader : not on mob drain nor pre-drain, not on AR nor skill, simply in how many negative skill/AAO they can land. capping that is solving the issue. nerfing OSB is not. "period".
Don't put words in my mouth. As it stands, OSB makes traders invincible, and brings about imbalances due to people getting more RS/survivability than designed.
You seem to be forgetting that traders need to cast 5-6 drains to get to their max drain. They have seriously low hp and evades untill they land their second drain, they are quite easy to kill and certainly not overpowered. Lower duration = more casts and more counters, more nano down the drain. If you don't up NR and know what you're doing in PvP of course you're going to get drained every single time and they aren't going to struggle much.
Selfed PvP is less fun than OBd pvp? So, PvPing traders only with even larger drains is more fun? I'm guessing you have lots of traders then and sneak/run a lot and find that fun.. Cause otherwise it ain't fun at all being drained/rooted/killed by a trader with more hp than enfs can get selfed. OBs NEED to be removed to have balance between different professions unless the devs make the profs balanced ONLY with OBs.. So traders start with negative hp so they only have a small amount with them.. lol (joke and exaggeration before you pick this as a quote).
"cqfd" on your dialecticals.
anyway you're confusing a place with its path.
the problem AIN'T howto cast OPed drains, wich requires good twinking, some skill, OSB (among wich mochies), patience and precision. things i respect.
the problem IS there's no limit on what can land on PVP target wich becomes a problem on low titles. so there we need balancing !
your solution is to give everybody the disease to cure it.
in other word : nerf everybody on a general aspect (OSB possibilities) in need to solve a specific problem (low level trader drains).
& your idea to shorten drains is just annoyant to traders but don't solve anything : being crippled 1,5 min instead of 3 min ?
i'm soz but joo phailz @ convincing me, while i'm generally all opened to people suggestions.
You aren't even paying attention bitnykk you don't listen to the reasoning behind what i say. Traders themselves and their drains are not overpowered and can be dealt with in more than one way, but once they get OBs and head off to towers, they do not die unless another trader shows up THAT is where the inbalance lies. I was considering 45 seconds -1min like init debuffs are for the reduced timer (its not my idea its the devs, so you're calling their idea bad I guess. I read it somewhere in reballancing info that they were concidering it).
now you're confusing "not listening" and "not agreing".
i totally understand what you're trying to state BUT, guess wut : i disagree !
to me the possibilities of TRADERS *specifically* in low title PVP are too big, while i don't want to see them nerfed for PVM, Twink or OSB -nor any other profession as i think OSB are a must-care in AO PVP interest.
(and i'm fed up repeating that).
that said the only efficient, controlled, clear, precise and definitive way to balance that is to distribute cappings over level/title to ensure other professions won't see their weapons/AR/skills rendered useless, no matter if that's 45 sec or 3 min.
so i see ideas of shortening, or changing drain NR check, or changing nanocost, or level-locking OSB, or clearing NCU in field gas etc ... but all i read until now wasn't convincing.
so stop trying to state i'm deaf and pretend i put words in your mouth : i read people opinions but i argue over what i think fair & efficient.
No, I'm not confusing anything, and please, don't try to patronise me it only makes you seem arrogant. I said, you weren't listening to the reasoning behind it.. Because none of your posts referred to that.. Or anything much that i said to be honest.
then develop your "reasoning behind" in a concise way that can be discused, agreed or disagreed.
all you explained until now was osb overall nerf and drain shortening, wich i disagree with.
I explained the reasoning behind why OBs should be removed from PvP in enough detail you just chose not to reply to any of it. And again (yes i told you before) I DID NOT say that drains duration should be lowered i said i believe i read something about it that the dev's were considering it. Although it is a good idea. I'm not rewriting my previous posts you can look yourself.
read & disagreed. cyaz.
With no reference or reason, gj but you /fail. Have a good day.
ROFL ! you're hilarious ... guilty of what you criticize people for already (arrogance, bad suppositions, deaf to people's opinion) + several other things, but we won't turn this into childish little personal attacks, will you ?
i've already explained why your idea is far from great so i won't repeat myself. but since i'm here posting, i'll give a vague idead of the situation with your genius "reasoning behind" applied :
- so from now on, you can say goodbye to h&q, rrfe, behe : /squishy pvp mode on ! i'm sure all professions will get benefit from this, especially the low HP ones.
- with ncu clear in gas, we'll also loose GSF ; that's really great : now every distance take ages, you can't run away from red mobs anymore, and the average evade people will appreciate losing it.
- i didn't mention it but of course, every pet profession now can go on field with grey junk as they'd lose mochies, meaning their red pets will be OE and unobeyant.
- every other professions needing MP/trad buffs for casting such or such non level locked nanos (e.g. NTs) can now cry : they'll be limited to self crap.
- all the people relaying on pnh/cost to fight can now reroll another profession as they lose benefit this side.
- the ranged ones that were counting on ua/ep/assrif or any AR buffer can sit on their OE gun : even if they don't cross a trader they're now half or totally useless.
- dev will have a huge rework to implement a ncu check entering field, checking all nanos caster levels in pvp range of buff owner.
i didn't mention that you have absolutely no idea how people will start to roll "sploit" buffers (e.g. : MP, traders, fix, any other) that will get wrangle/mochams and stay out of field to cast higher buffs on toon of their ranges entering field to off/def.
so in fact you'll create more complicated layer of OSB but not solving anything at all : you just delocate the OSB ! + you nerf everybody doing that way, and render AO low title PVP dull & boring. not mentionning the implementation is harsh for a totally arguable result.
so simply and efficiently cap title/level on trader drain line is a bad idea i had, i apologize.
GRATZ ... phailzor !
Last edited by bitnykk; Mar 26th, 2010 at 13:13:00.
There was never any personal attack so ok. And you did provide no reason in your previous post as to why. So the first paragraph of your post is completely void. Have you ever tried selfed pvp? Ever? Because on the whole it's not bad at all. I mentioned pets being underpowered which is already being addressed, and how the rest of the professions do fine apart from advy.
Why do you have to have OBs to pvp? You seem to think they're neccessary. Right here and now, in OBd fights theres only 1 winner and thats trader meaning all other OBd characters are pointless anyway, so no OBs is better in that respect. Whereas in selfed fights good twinks can put decent fights up to anyone on almost any profession (pet profs being hardest right now but still doable and when they get fixed should be easier).
OBs cover holes in characters as they didn't bother to cover them themselves, PnH is their lack of max nano and nano regeneration GSF is their lack of RS or twinking an evade buff. They design a bad toon and when they lose OBs, yes they will die more. The work involved for the devs is just adding a new flag to buffs when they are cast outside lvl range that is removed when getting flag or entering gas.. Thats not a huge rework at all is it?
Remember this is being added to the balancing as a whole, you cannot just assume all the pet profs will still be gimp they won't need mochies to keep good pets most likely. Grey junk? We're talking about twinks they get red pets with mochies or without, just not as red.
I also had that idea that people would roll buffing toons, but parking 3 toons outside gas to buff up a toon isn't the biggest problem and the only other option was a complete NCU wipe either way OBs need to go from PvP to bring in balance of some sort you can't have balance with HnQ/RRFE even if traders are fixed at towers.
then again, i (re)declare that your suggestion is :
- not convincing
- nerfing everybody
- more complex to dev
- not so efficient
- cause allowing OSB delocation
that ncu clear makes me think of so-called "chirurgical strikes" and "collateral casualties" stories we hear when a big country bombs a litte, while ALL we need to fix low title PVP is to control trader drain line ... but you're so stubborn i'll stop answering you from now.
ps : yes i did selfed duels and that wasn't that much fun. plus OSB ain't always to "cover lacks of twinking" but more to "compensate low level caps" in a numerous skills among wich Runspeed. so in the end we got a completely different notion of what low title AO PVP is, sorry we can't agree.
Last edited by bitnykk; Mar 26th, 2010 at 18:17:17.
It's not very complex to dev's at all. The whole point was removing OBs makes the game easier to balance. Leaving OBs in either means imbalance in selfed or OBd pvp, OBs always were the cause of the huge imbalance to me, selfed seems a bit more balanced just how i see it.
And honestly there is SO MUCH MORE wrong with lowbie pvp than trader drains.. Drains aren't even that much of an issue at all compared to other professions being underpowered.
And yes it looks like we do have different ideas.. You think low level pvp has to be OBd and is only fun with it and trader drains are the only thing wrong with it, I believe that low level PvP is more balanced selfed, and can't be balanced in both OBd and selfed.
Last edited by Original; Mar 26th, 2010 at 21:57:03.
Whatever you guys are saying teh simple fact is Traders are the most oped profession from tl1 to tl5. no exception. They are number one. the end. They need some nerfing.
Deathmaster1 220/30/70 Dmsengi 220/28/70
Dmstanker 220/30/70 Dmsdoc 220/25/70
Anarchic1 126/15/35 Dmsfix 220/30/70
Imakeyouoe 164/22/42 Imakeyouoe2 85/9/21
BM of Dark Front - We are recruiting. darkfront.org
Alright then.
Nerf us how?
[[ RYUAHN | 220/21 Opifex Trader
== Proud Member of Core ==
[[ ALASTROPHE | 220/15 Solitus Martial-Artist
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote