Low Level Trader(s) Drains

[Darkirbiska1]

-cut-

It looks good on paper, but we all know how it works in game. About tl2, enfs with dual tiigs seems to be better than traders. They can get more NR than traders can get nanoskills, but with higher level ate2 is unlocked and it allows wearing better nanoskill items and ai armors while getting more NR isnt easy.

[Drakeep]

It looks good on paper, but we all know how it works in game. About tl2, enfs with dual tiigs seems to be better than traders. They can get more NR than traders can get nanoskills.

well not if u bring a little leet near u and drain the leet sometimes and ladder up with drains

leets=phowa
PS: tl1-2 traders with Neleb rod/stygian/JAME are fearsome either in pvp and pvm

[Vgman01]

My 24 enfo with somewhere around 400 NR (been forever since i played him so could be off) still only resists 1 or two drains in a row before getting drained, by lvl 20 traders. I have to max out conceal just to hope to get close enough to them without being drained then open up with rage>fast attack>flurry>perks and hope i resist drains enough that I can take him out through hack n quack. Something really dose need to be done...

[Darkirbiska1]

My 24 enfo with somewhere around 400 NR (been forever since i played him so could be off) still only resists 1 or two drains in a row before getting drained, by lvl 20 traders. I have to max out conceal just to hope to get close enough to them without being drained then open up with rage>fast attack>flurry>perks and hope i resist drains enough that I can take him out through hack n quack. Something really dose need to be done...

When I said tl2 enf with dual tiig I aimed at enfs with perked nr1 at tl2, around levels 30-50. At rk1 is more enfs in this range and only few traders, but they arent good twinks.

[Vampengi]

Easy Solution: Lock the Nanite drains to a certain level.

Not-so-easy Solution: Lock all the drains to a certain level.

I don't think it's out of the question to lock all of the drains to a certain level, it provokes the danger of PVP then, which is how it should be.

[Hacre]

Easy Solution: Lock the Nanite drains to a certain level.

Not-so-easy Solution: Lock all the drains to a certain level.

I don't think it's out of the question to lock all of the drains to a certain level, it provokes the danger of PVP then, which is how it should be.

We need fewer level locks in AO, not more of them.

[Dethrattle]

We need fewer level locks in AO, not more of them.

why not solve the problem by putting level locks on the trader CL buffs, and un-equipping everyone's belt and NCUs?

[Notcrattey]

2.This thread is about how unbalanced are nanites at tl3-4

But... they aren't imbalanced at tl4

[Drakeep]

Not-so-easy Solution: Lock all the drains to a certain level.

Traders are the best pvp prof, if u do that they will become the worst pvp class. Traders lacks of valids weapons at early levels, Ithaca Ki-8 aren't so reliable, nerf drains and traders are lost. I could agree, just a bit, about tl3 casting nanite drains.

But... they aren't imbalanced at tl4

Neither Totp/Notum doubles/Candycane/Resonance Blast are OP at tl4 but we got lock! ... well maybe totp/notum doubles are a bit op at tl4 but not the old rk nukes

[bitnykk]

<IN TOPIC>aka best pvp/pvm prof for tl1-2

you mean the only valuable pvp prof because of such unbalance to other profs ?

Not-so-easy Solution: Lock all the drains to a certain level.

that's what i proposed earlier, with a reasonnable debuff (2 lines stacked) for every title on pvp target (not pvm).
see here : http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...5&postcount=46
(ofc that must go with notum repulsor total rework during balance).

We need fewer level locks in AO, not more of them.

void argument : what AO needs is pvp balance, why FC prepares it. level lock shan't be used every occasion but this one deserves it for a VERY LONG time !

why not solve the problem by putting level locks on the trader CL buffs, and un-equipping everyone's belt and NCUs?

no nerf please ! read again : only certain people want to nerf CL buff or OSB (mocham etc ...) by level locking or ncu cleaning (like in BS) when you enter NW field.
but most of us JUST want a control over what drain a trader can land in pvp (duel/bs/nw), and i think the most clean way is level/title lock well spreaded over the entire line.

But... they aren't imbalanced at tl4

my opinion on TL4 is only nanites shan't be landable on a level 149 or less, all the rest is totally okay. but also a 125 trader shall be able to land nanites on a TL5 hostlie (aka at 150) while a 150 trader can't land it on a 125 opponent

if u do that they will become the worst pvp class

nop they will become balanced, endly ! they still can equip crazy ncu and high QL weapons to their level (because pvm stays the same) but they can't make opponent 50% OE or worse and AR ridiculous in pvp.


FC PLZ BALANCE !

[sultryvoltron]

Just to flog the dead horse, what would be bad about removing the nanoskill draining from Traders? Let them drain weapon skills, fine, but pass all the nanoskill debuffing to MPs.

If that's too much to ask, then why not split Divest and Plunder into Weapon skill and Nanoskill but increase the amount debuffed of each one?

[Saetos]

Just to flog the dead horse, what would be bad about removing the nanoskill draining from Traders? Let them drain weapon skills, fine, but pass all the nanoskill debuffing to MPs.

Then not a single Doctor would die to us at TL5 and TL4. We'd be hilariously bad versus NTs at TL1-6.

[erozc]

Then not a single Doctor would die to us at TL5 and TL4. We'd be hilariously bad versus NTs at TL1-6.

And still pwn mostly everyone else?

[Calamite]

And still pwn mostly everyone else?

Well yeah it's true, as it is now traders don't really have a profession that can reliably stand a chance 1 on 1 against them.

Traders are weakest (if I can say so, they're still quite strong) at tl5, as that is the level range when drains don't *completely* shut down casters (they still shut down weapon reliant professions though), but there's no GTH for an easy win in that situation yet.

I'm all for making drains debuff/buff only weapon skills, at least then traders will have some weakness, not to mention that they won't be able to ladder up to nanites at ridiculously low levels.

[Genie]

Then not a single Doctor would die to us at TL5 and TL4. We'd be hilariously bad versus NTs at TL1-6.

So you dont wanna be in the same boat as everyone else then? Thats understandable. Funny how every other profs have learned to live with not being able to kill doctors and being hilariously bad versus NTs, but traders somehow havent, and use that as an argument to why they should not be balanced. Remember that every other profession in addition get wtf pwnd by traders at TL1-6.

[Saetos]

So you dont wanna be in the same boat as everyone else then? Thats understandable. Funny how every other profs have learned to live with not being able to kill doctors and being hilariously bad versus NTs, but traders somehow havent, and use that as an argument to why they should not be balanced. Remember that every other profession in addition get wtf pwnd by traders at TL1-6.

I'd prefer to think of it as making sure that *everyone* has at least some sort of chance to counter lolCHlolCHlolCH for Doctors pre-GTH. The problem resides with the low amount of nanoskills it requires relative to its efficiency. Besides, there's always gotta be some sort of counter to this. Why not it be us?

As for NTs, our offensive power at lower levels is very weak, as our Shotguns, while strong on AimedShots do not do very well on the regulars, and without being able to drain nanoskills, NTs in their current incarnation will be able to pound us to the ground without GTH.

[Vgman01]

Traders are weakest (if I can say so, they're still quite strong) at tl5, as that is the level range when drains don't *completely* shut down casters (they still shut down weapon reliant professions though), but there's no GTH for an easy win in that situation yet.

I'm sorry but this just screams how uninformed you are about TL5, Traders make very good tl5 twinks. Stack up a decent amount of evades then drain other peoples AR so that you dodge almost as good as an ma, combine that with a very powerfull ofab mk6 shotgun wich checks duck exp instead of dodge range and you can easily see why traders are formidible even at tl5.

In any event how about making trader drains so that the drains themselves are applied after the requirement checks (basicaly make them just AAO drains on the target that still give the trader attack skills) Later on at say tl5+ish they can remain the way they are now because they don't effect players wepons "as much" as they do at lower lvls.

[Hacre]

So you dont wanna be in the same boat as everyone else then? Thats understandable. Funny how every other profs have learned to live with not being able to kill doctors and being hilariously bad versus NTs, but traders somehow havent, and use that as an argument to why they should not be balanced. Remember that every other profession in addition get wtf pwnd by traders at TL1-6.

Which is where balance comes in. Traders deal with docs and NTs. Oh Em Gee.

I'd prefer to think of it as making sure that *everyone* has at least some sort of chance to counter lolCHlolCHlolCH for Doctors pre-GTH. The problem resides with the low amount of nanoskills it requires relative to its efficiency. Besides, there's always gotta be some sort of counter to this. Why not it be us?

As for NTs, our offensive power at lower levels is very weak, as our Shotguns, while strong on AimedShots do not do very well on the regulars, and without being able to drain nanoskills, NTs in their current incarnation will be able to pound us to the ground without GTH.

Somewhat amusingly, at TLs 3-4 NTs can pose a real problem to Traders (dunno about TL5) due to being able to tweak ridiculous NR, then pop CoF on the Trader with a decent landing rate (Trader NR certainly isn't fantastic). Amusingly, NTs get squished by any other profession twink that doesn't rely on offensive casting at these levels.

I'm sorry but this just screams how uninformed you are about TL5, Traders make very good tl5 twinks. Stack up a decent amount of evades then drain other peoples AR so that you dodge almost as good as an ma, combine that with a very powerfull ofab mk6 shotgun wich checks duck exp instead of dodge range and you can easily see why traders are formidible even at tl5.

In any event how about making trader drains so that the drains themselves are applied after the requirement checks (basicaly make them just AAO drains on the target that still give the trader attack skills) Later on at say tl5+ish they can remain the way they are now because they don't effect players wepons "as much" as they do at lower lvls.

Lol this is just so wrong. Especially how all the WAH NERF TRADER crowd -constantly- run under the assumption that drains -always- land and Traders are -never- in cooldown. Ever.

If Traders were this OP at TL5, how come there's more Enforcers than Traders?

[erozc]

Which is where balance comes in. Traders deal with docs and NTs. Oh Em Gee.

So, contrasting this with the original idea the quote pertains to (drains should drain only weapon skills), you're arguing that drains should drain only nano skills?

[sultryvoltron]

Then not a single Doctor would die to us at TL5 and TL4. We'd be hilariously bad versus NTs at TL1-6.

Why is that a problem? Bring other professions who are good at dealing with those pesky Doctors. One profession cannot be good at killing everything.

I'd prefer to think of it as making sure that *everyone* has at least some sort of chance to counter lolCHlolCHlolCH for Doctors pre-GTH. The problem resides with the low amount of nanoskills it requires relative to its efficiency. Besides, there's always gotta be some sort of counter to this. Why not it be us?

As for NTs, our offensive power at lower levels is very weak, as our Shotguns, while strong on AimedShots do not do very well on the regulars, and without being able to drain nanoskills, NTs in their current incarnation will be able to pound us to the ground without GTH.

Here is where we hit a snag. Traders are an effective counter to every weapon-based profession. Why should you also get to take the MP job and be a counter to nano-based professions? This change would easily boost pet profs at lower levels, would encourage more people to roll nano-based professions, and give an all around better variety in low level PvP.

{edited by Anarrina: removed argument}