Complete Healing

[Lupusceleri]

So... how about... bringing a goddamn debuffer?

All this crying about CH, it's like bringing a NT to kill a NR8 perked toon. Or bringing a Bureaucrat to kill a NT. Or like bringing a MP to kill an Enforcer. It doesn't make sense.

But guess what? That NT who can't kill a NR8 perked toon, can kill that pesky fixer or MP everyone else can't perk. Or the Bureaucrat who's being banged by the NT, can instead keep a whole zerg at bay and make his team and surroundings unperkable while throwing unremovable initdebuffs around. Or the MP that gets steamrolled by the Enforcer can rip the Agent or Doc in half.

Hell, MrKnuckle is always complaining about TL5 Adventurer godmode but funny enough, my MP can take down (almost) any Adventurer in a 1on1.

Like has been said plenty times before, stop playing only epeen alpha professions at TL5. Start playing support/debuff professions. GEE, suddenly a whole different set of professions become easy kills while you are vulnerable to completely other professions than normal.

Problem solved, no more tears need to be shed.

[Ciex]

If a Doctor can die one-on-one to pure damage then there is no chance that he'll be able to do his job in team PvP. Plain and simple.

Nope it isnt plain and simple. Im not saying that he should die in 5s after he is attacked but Id like to see them run out of nano from time to time and then die. Thats kinda big difference. I remember that once ive seen doc vs agent duel at tl5 that lasted so long that agent had to recast mimic. Lack of dmg i can understand, its possible to have around 13k for both sides, add reflect graft and we have a pile of meat thats kinda hard to alpha, but no one of them running out of nano after like 40 minutes? Ive also heard of similar situations with doc vs advy and im pretty sure that i could do it on enf if only i had genius perked. Its nano that is problem, not the fact that CH heals 10k (altho imho its a bit retarded but i can live with it, just like with tripples).

@Sishu, why the hell do you accuse me by negating whatever i say and what the hell are those stats that you did copy and paste? Because they arent stats of a guy i was talking about. Are those stats of first lvl 150-174 doctor that you did see? Its hard to believe that in 1 day Dokkie did around 1,5k duels, found a boc, most likely changed his breed (let me guess it was solitus) and lost so much team score ... It would be good to hear "Im sorry ive made a mistake" soon from you if you have balls to tell it or I ll just ignore you.

[msbish]

Personally i feel nerfing Complete heal would be like removing tms for tl5 soldiers...what are docs gonna do at tl5 now? they got utter crap dmg so they need good healing

traders, agents, enforcers,mp's and even some nt's can allready kill twinked doctors 1on1
there healing is good for a reason lol, they got zero offense.

[Avari]

...but as it stands docs have the capability to kill you...

I think you should play a doctor and see how many kills you get before making such a statement. We have the capability to do some damage, I agree, but it is both limited, situational and hard to coordinate into actually causing the death of someone with even half a clue. Doctors have zero alpha - AS is my alpha... and maybe a Malpractice hit on top if I'm not forced into healing, which I am if I'm anywhere below 90% HP.

I support the notion of more balance between the offensive and defensive part of the doctor tool set, but I also see all the problems coming with it. The most frustrating thing in PvP is that you're always the number one target, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. The doctor defense is currently very one-sided and very easily disabled.

Tbh, I don't need a lot of kills in PvP, but if I'm deprived of that ability I also want proper tools to keep myself alive and heal my team mates. For that to be realised though, we need some kind of guardian system.

[navycut]

I think you should play a doctor and see how many kills you get before making such a statement.

I don't need to play a doctor, I have other toons and docs are by no means harmless.

[Avari]

I don't need to play a doctor, I have other toons and docs are by no means harmless.

Problem is that people confuse where the harm is coming from. Take a look in your system and dmg windows when you die on BS, and most likely you'll see that someone else was present too. If you were 1v1, then you can always run away, so there's no reason to ever die to a doctor, unless you're so unlucky that both his root grafts are up and you're extremely slow with those FM stims. The thing with doctor dmg is that it takes time, so if you're stupid enough to stick around while the dmg ticks in, then you die out of stupidity and not because of the doctor. Staying near a doctor in a 1v1 situation for a prolonged period of time equals me wanting to tank a shades dmg.

[navycut]

Problem is that people confuse where the harm is coming from. Take a look in your system and dmg windows when you die on BS, and most likely you'll see that someone else was present too. If you were 1v1, then you can always run away, so there's no reason to ever die to a doctor, unless you're so unlucky that both his root grafts are up and you're extremely slow with those FM stims. The thing with doctor dmg is that it takes time, so if you're stupid enough to stick around while the dmg ticks in, then you die out of stupidity and not because of the doctor. Staying near a doctor in a 1v1 situation for a prolonged period of time equals me wanting to tank a shades dmg.

Docs can't alpha me obviously, but you can't deny that malp+AS+dots do hurt a lot.

But the point is if they are able to kill me in 1v1 situations, why shouldn't I be able to kill them also? (not that I can't kill a doc but according to ebon docs should be unkillable 1v1)

[Mekh]

Docs can't alpha me obviously, but you can't deny that malp+AS+dots do hurt a lot.

Only if said target for some weird reason have decided to stick around long enough for any Doc to be able to land all of that which you talk about...

Just try do the numbers on how long it takes... You might be surprised.

But the point is if they are able to kill me in 1v1 situations, why shouldn't I be able to kill them also? (not that I can't kill a doc but according to ebon docs should be unkillable 1v1)

Simply because a Doc can't perform a Doctors role which is healing others as well as self, if said Doctor have to spend all resources on staying alive self which is currently the case.

Doctors don't have enough staying power to do that. Just one opponent is enough to keep a Doc from keeping others alive as well to a large extent.
There's several opponents capable of even making said Doc incapable of even keeping him/herself alive either via pure damage, or by the use of a horde of CC/debuffs available to a lot of different opponents.

In mass PvP that equates into a Doc being completely unable to perform said role unless said Doc stays behind and out of harms way... but funnily enough that also equates to said Doc doing no damage AT ALL to any opponents.

[navycut]

I guess with the doc cyberdeck things, docs can actually be pure support if they want and be unkillable 1v1 :P

Only doc I actually saw that likes being pure support though is eunucha hehe

[Szyylin]

Only doc I actually saw that likes being pure support though is eunucha hehe

Yeah i guess he has MR perked on his trox doc for support

[navycut]

He's been running around with his opi evade doc a lot these days

[shishu]

I really hope they merge rk 1 and rk 2, so sick of reading about this.

and btw:
Resident "Dokkie" is Robin
Breed: Atrox
Gender: Uni
Profession*title: Master Surgeon (TitleLevel 5)
Profession: Doctor
Level: 165

Duel rank:Freshman (2)
Duel wins:59
Duel losses:15
Solo rank:Resident (5)
Solo kills:770
Team rank: Distinguished (8)
Kills in team:12907

Well...if that is tru....but i must see whit my eyes...hmm...cant belive that i make a mistake(mistake happens every day) and tab same 1 alse?
I will apologise you Ciek ...but i have to look at him again ...Pride...

[Lazy]

I guess with the doc cyberdeck things, docs can actually be pure support if they want and be unkillable 1v1 :P

Only doc I actually saw that likes being pure support though is eunucha hehe

i, for one, will be the first to ditch my guns in exchange for a cyberdeck.

[Ebondevil]

Nope it isnt plain and simple. Im not saying that he should die in 5s after he is attacked but Id like to see them run out of nano from time to time and then die. Thats kinda big difference. I remember that once ive seen doc vs agent duel at tl5 that lasted so long that agent had to recast mimic. Lack of dmg i can understand, its possible to have around 13k for both sides, add reflect graft and we have a pile of meat thats kinda hard to alpha, but no one of them running out of nano after like 40 minutes? Ive also heard of similar situations with doc vs advy and im pretty sure that i could do it on enf if only i had genius perked. Its nano that is problem, not the fact that CH heals 10k (altho imho its a bit retarded but i can live with it, just like with tripples).

Chain casting CH on a 220 Agent non stop with nearly 11k nano pool and -32% Nano cost had me run out of nano in 3 minutes while I was using Regain Nano from Genius 2. Just tested it. I seriously doubt it's possible that someone at TL 5 would have an easier time of it.

So yes it is possible to force an Agent to run out of nano while chain casting CH, as for a doc, I have less experience though I'm fairly certain they do have more nano delta, harder but not impossible and I still don't think that a doc should run out of nano from healing damage taken from one other player.

P.S. Mimic lasts 20 minutes, not 40.

P.P.S. By Chain casting I'm talking about casting it as soon as possible after the recharge.

[Ciex]

@Ebon

Most of the complains about CH comes from tl5 people. At tl7 it heals half of your hp (or even less) while at tl5 it heals your whole HP bar and people have waaaaaaaaay less dmg than tl7 people. Once I had a thought that for fp doc agents it could be nerfed in a way that it would heal 5-7,5k hp while for tl6+ it would heal 10k so possible nerf wouldnt hurt tl7 agents. TL7s complain about kiting or BS lift abuse that is simply gay but ive never heard about problems with 10k heal itself at tl7.

[Szyylin]

@Ebon

Most of the complains about CH comes from tl5 people. At tl7 it heals half of your hp (or even less) while at tl5 it heals your whole HP bar and people have waaaaaaaaay less dmg than tl7 people. Once I had a thought that for fp doc agents it could be nerfed in a way that it would heal 5-7,5k hp while for tl6+ it would heal 10k so possible nerf wouldnt hurt tl7 agents. TL7s complain about kiting or BS lift abuse that is simply gay but ive never heard about problems with 10k heal itself at tl7.

TL5 agents aren't OP because of CH, they are because of concussive shot. Lock CS to lvl 180, and let's see how many 170 agents don't disappear.
Remember, healing youself never killed anyone.

[sultryvoltron]

TL5 agents aren't OP because of CH, they are because of concussive shot. Lock CS to lvl 180, and let's see how many 170 agents don't disappear.
Remember, healing youself never killed anyone.

They're nerfing the hell out of CS. It doesn't need any more changes.

[Avari]

Remember, healing youself never killed anyone.

Funny, that's exactly what seems to be the claim many put to doctors these days.