Post Re-balancing - tanks and healers

[Xfire]

so from the sound of it, agents and advies might actually be good healers for raids and high level instances, if i'm mistaken about it then that's my bad. also, keepers seem to be getting nice tanking abilities and such. from the general outlook of things, having 3 viable tanking professions and 3 viable healers sounds about right to me. absolutely requiring enfos and docs for pretty much anything is a bit retarded in my opinion and i think funcom's going in the right direction widening it out a bit, i just hope they don't do the complete opposite of what i'm thinking and keep enfos and docs as an absolute requirement for any endgame content. so am i just rambling about something i thought i might have seen or are there actually going to be real tanking abilities from both enfos and keepers (and maybe soldiers?) and spreading out pvm healing to advies and agents? if not, then shame on you fc, and shame on all the docs and enfos that would be opposed to this.

[Legion84]

so from the sound of it, agents and advies might actually be good healers for raids and high level instances, if i'm mistaken about it then that's my bad. also, keepers seem to be getting nice tanking abilities and such. from the general outlook of things, having 3 viable tanking professions and 3 viable healers sounds about right to me. absolutely requiring enfos and docs for pretty much anything is a bit retarded in my opinion and i think funcom's going in the right direction widening it out a bit, i just hope they don't do the complete opposite of what i'm thinking and keep enfos and docs as an absolute requirement for any endgame content. so am i just rambling about something i thought i might have seen or are there actually going to be real tanking abilities from both enfos and keepers (and maybe soldiers?) and spreading out pvm healing to advies and agents? if not, then shame on you fc, and shame on all the docs and enfos that would be opposed to this.

Ok you make a fair point, but then what is the roll of an enforcer or doctor..there should be at least one instance or one thing that nothing else can be done without the aid of a enfo and doc, after all the other proffessions you mention here are support proffessions which now they do effectively and could do for some time now, one aspect of playing an enforcer i enjoy most is PVM been that big guy who everyone counts on to save the day like some super hero!

[Iamkama]

Ok you make a fair point, but then what is the roll of an enforcer or doctor..there should be at least one instance or one thing that nothing else can be done without the aid of a enfo and doc, after all the other proffessions you mention here are support proffessions which now they do effectively and could do for some time now, one aspect of playing an enforcer i enjoy most is PVM been that big guy who everyone counts on to save the day like some super hero!

What if you want to tank but don't like the keeper's toolset? Bam! go for enfo.

What if you want to heal but dont want to be a tree when you do so? Bam! go for doctor

It's just more options for more people is all.

[Xfire]

i'm not talking about them being copies of enfos and docs, keepers for example, as tanks they'd be more about negating damage as to where soldiers and enfos are more about just taking it straight to the face. i see no reason why keepers shouldn't get the aggro skills to tank a raid such as apf where there's more than a boss to be fought, keeper would very likely lean toward a shield build, which would of course nerf their support abilities but make them more useful in a tanking situation. i don't see why max health and reflects should be the only way to win anything, if keepers had mongo, parry, and riposte, then they'd be able to tank large waves of stuff just fine with evades and parry, thus making a team easier. getting 10 people together and then not being able to do jack **** just cause there's no enfo's online is just rightfully stupid and there should be more than one way to tank a raid, the same goes for healing.

[Legion84]

i'm not talking about them being copies of enfos and docs, keepers for example, as tanks they'd be more about negating damage as to where soldiers and enfos are more about just taking it straight to the face. i see no reason why keepers shouldn't get the aggro skills to tank a raid such as apf where there's more than a boss to be fought, keeper would very likely lean toward a shield build, which would of course nerf their support abilities but make them more useful in a tanking situation. i don't see why max health and reflects should be the only way to win anything, if keepers had mongo, parry, and riposte, then they'd be able to tank large waves of stuff just fine with evades and parry, thus making a team easier. getting 10 people together and then not being able to do jack **** just cause there's no enfo's online is just rightfully stupid and there should be more than one way to tank a raid, the same goes for healing.

Ok fair enough, but that's why Enforcers make the best tanks in game with crowd controlling taunts and tbh they should be more active enfs then keepers playing in this game at this current time, but i do see were you are coming from.. one of the reasons why enfo's get teams is for this situation lets not make them be neglected, as for keepers their auras are the bonus to making them a good choice for teams.

[Xfire]

and enforcers would still be very likely the best tanks, noone's taking that away from you. versatility is in my opinion the best part of AO and a large group of people being totally unable to accomplish anything without one of 13 profs seems absolutely ridiculous to me. keepers would sacrifice damage for a shield, and likely switch off attack auras for defensive and taunt auras, i think a ticking mongo type aura would be a great idea and maybe throw in another perk line for even further sacrificing team support and damage for tanking ability. but as far as healers are concerned, i also see no reason why docs should have a monopoly on teams in much the same way enfos do. advys killing their damage to turn into a tree should warrant a viable healer, and from what i've read of the agent rebalancing, agents will also be giving up quite a bit to go fp doc so they can fill a healer role in a team. it's not like the mentioned classes are just gonna get entirely better, i think they should just be able to switch up the way in which their toolsets are used to produce a different result. a wider game is better than a long one any day.

[Moonbolt]

they did that crap in wow... the reason i stopped playing and went back to AO..
the professions lost all their uniqeness..
so no thnx this is a very stupid idea.... if u wanna tank stuff... roll an enf.

[Iamkama]

they did that crap in wow... the reason i stopped playing and went back to AO..
the professions lost all their uniqeness..
so no thnx this is a very stupid idea.... if u wanna tank stuff... roll an enf.

Yeah, I understand your point of view.

But what happens if they nerf enfo's so bad that noone wants to roll/play an enfo?

Then who's gonna tank?

[McKnuckleSamwich]

no moonbolt.

It's not a stupid idea. you just don't understand how one can retain "uniqueness" while fulfilling other duties.

Well, here's an example for you.

Akbar is a clerk at 7/11.
Phil is the slurpee stocker.
Bob is the night shift janitor.

The floor needs to be swept. Bob can do it. But, so could phil, or even Akbar.

Bob != Akbar != Phil

All three people are unique, even though they are all stupid dildo's who work at 7/11.

So, there you go, just because one of three toons *could* tank a raid, doesn't *make* them non-unique.

[Saetos]

So, there you go, just because one of three toons *could* tank a raid, doesn't *make* them non-unique.

I can't imagine a clerk (Shotgun Trader) or slurpee stocker (Chalice doctor) being able to tank, but perhaps the janitor (2h Blunt) could!

Bad joke sorry

[Juzzif]

In my opinion this is a fair point, why not have 2 valid tanks? and better off-healers..

But, right now I think that this rebalancing effort Funcom puts into this should be somewhat changing the future of AO in some way.. I feel that we need to look at end-game content, and lets face it... PvP is pretty much the only end-game content...

Now don't get me wrong there's plenty of other things to do.. But there's not PvE in AO like for example AoC or WoW, and for that matter other MMORPGS

[Ferlorn]

Having both an enf and a keeper at 220, i dont really see the trouble with a slightly smaller AoE taunt at aboot 5k-ish for keeper, if it were to be implemented on the nano-level. Using some of the less used nanoskills to make it hurt (if only a little) would also be a good option. Of course, the HoT and hp buff parts are not really needed. Might pop 'shiny' over their heads, and be called "hand of xxx", too.

Or maybe moving it into the holy mark line, which is less about support, and more about being an annoyance. Some 1k taunt at 45s cooldown really wont cut it tho.

So, this would mean loosing agro to non-callers all the time, and quite a bit more than a squishy doc would like heading their way.

As for soldiers, i dont really see the good way to change them. With the alpha and singletaunts they have today they can tank quite well, and their defense is just awesome.

Ideally, i think alert soldier + alert keeper tankability = somewhat drunk enf tankability. (Somewhat meaning still being alert as to where the raid is going, but to drunk to notice every time a mob or two peels of the pack to gnaw at some other raidmember.)

As to healing, well, thats not really the place where i have the most experience.

[Ciex]

tl;dr

What makes you think that advys and agents will be better at healing? I heard something about heal nerfs so they should be even worse. than today.

[Xfire]

well, they're fully reworking the way fp and morphs work, making more of them viable, and from the sounds of the posts on the forums, they'll be better at one thing and worse at the other.

for example, a wolf advy would have their heals nerfed so that advies didn't go around pwning everyone as they do now, however, if they went tree, they wouldn't go around pwning everyone either. they'd simply be changing their role from a fighter to a healer.

same situation with agent healing, fp getting different perks and such would make the implication that an fp doc agent would have their damage kicked in the nuts, and in exchange get better healing.

additionally, nobody said anything about nerfing enfs so that noone would want to play them, enfs should still be fantastic tanks, they just shouldn't have a monopoly over it.

more ways to build your toons, and sacrificing something for another ability isn't wrong, nor wow ish, it's the way ao works entirely, this just broadens the way people would think and would also create more variety and creativity in building teams and raid groups in pvm.

[Moonbolt]

no moonbolt.

It's not a stupid idea. you just don't understand how one can retain "uniqueness" while fulfilling other duties.

Well, here's an example for you.

Akbar is a clerk at 7/11.
Phil is the slurpee stocker.
Bob is the night shift janitor.

The floor needs to be swept. Bob can do it. But, so could phil, or even Akbar.

Bob != Akbar != Phil

All three people are unique, even though they are all stupid dildo's who work at 7/11.

So, there you go, just because one of three toons *could* tank a raid, doesn't *make* them non-unique.

ofcourse but if u are gonna take RL examples like sweeping the floor etc.... the janitor wuold get fired to save money if the other staff had time (ability) to clean up.
how many restaurants u think for example ahs a janitor.. its the rest of the staff that does it, that means the janitor that only fills one purpose is obsolete.
so ur argument is not valid and frankly quite (insert suitable demeaning word)

[MajorOutage]

What if you want to tank but don't like the keeper's toolset? Bam! go for enfo.

What if I want to tank but don't like the enfo toolset? Or a soldier, for that matter?

[Moonbolt]

then dont tank.

[Hound]

What if I want to tank but don't like the enfo toolset? Or a soldier, for that matter?

Then roll a keeper..

Lets do it again!

[Xfire]

Moonbolt - 220/26/something. Trox Enf RK1

well there's your problem. so, if you've got something useful to add then go ahead and say it. "im enfo dont give my team spot to a keeper/soldier because i hate game diversity" doesn't really count.

[Moonbolt]

so why isnt my point valid?...
i rolled my enf back in 2003 cause i wanted to tank.
i wanted to be the hughe guy up front soaking up the dmg ... i rolled enf....
what keeper has rolled a keeper to tank?
what soldier has rolled a soldier to tank?
what shade has rolled a shade to tank?
ur posts have no valid reasons what so ever... u rolled ur profession fully aware of its role and capabilities.
now u want a "more diverse" roll for ur profession?..
ROLL ANOTHER PROFESSION!