What makes Enforcers OP in your opinion?

[Lupusceleri]

Because to drop someone as melee you need to catch up to them.
If your rs isn't superior you won't catch up. And then you lose.

We were talking about NR, not runspeed.

Although, if you want to talk runspeed, there are five melee professions ingame out of which one is Enforcer. I very much doubt that Funcom will not attempt to solve the kiting problems for *all* the melee professions during the rebalancing patch.

[Moonbolt]

yeah cause their suggestion of increasing the runspeec cap to let fixers get better use of their high runspeed and make snares and roots work more effectvely is realy gonna help with the kiting problems melee has in this game.

[Gatester]

Something to remind everyone, NT's can remove our rage and all essence buffs with a single nano, and it also puts a lockout on recasting them. 3.3k NR doesn't do much good if they CB the enf first, but they usually just Root us and try to DPM us to death.

lol wat? That statement about MAs is terribly terribly incorrect.

And any prof that goes NR2 makes some serious sacrifices to do so.

Actually the only prof you MIGHT see in NR2 is agents, maybe NTs too

If I go NR2, I might as well go NR8

You don't think MA's can hit 3000 NR? Seriously, everytime I mention MA's you jump in yelling "NO NO they are gimp stop it!" I talk regularly with an actual PVP MA, I know what stats you have, so however gimp most of the MA's are means nothing to me.

We all make sacrifices, everyone is just pissed because enfs have one thing over them Hell if I wasn't forced into using nanoskill gear just to cast my nanos I would consider NR1 myself.

I don't see how it would be like dropping soldier reflect cap? 2.5k or lower is what nearly every profession in this game has to work with. I don't even get that much by swapping more NR armor and perking NR1.

MA can get that much NR for 20 seconds every 73 seconds (unadjusted for -skill lock modifier, but still). Not even close to what an Enf gets.

NR2 users have to give up any hope of casting the new DB nanos. For most professions these are pretty much essential.

Nano Resist IS our defense. TMS/AMS is soldier defense. It is a valid comparison. Just because 2.5k NR works for a prof with high healing ability, or 4500 def, or massive damage mitigation tools does not mean my enforcer should be at the same level.

If you screw with NR, you mess up my only working defense on enforcer. I could just as easily suggest introducing a nano that prevents you from using CH. You would still have lower heals to use and other tools, but I still think that would be stupid, so it is up to you to decide if taking something nice a profession has away is dumb or not. Hm wait a second....

1. I can't recall the last time I saw a good MP on the BS. Not only that, any BS Virus Scanner instantly removes NSD.
2. Agents do not have the perks to use Nano Doctorate 10, the 1.5k extra hp from Enhanced Health is truly essential for our survival.

I would think removing NSD would be more important that 1.5k health....Then again I think 3-3.3k NR is important for enf but you would be fine with 2.5k

What? Thanks for winning the argument for me.

The Infernal Rage requirements are 639 BM, 639 MM, and 639 MC.

Nanite Improved drains remove 325 nanoskills each. Get hit by two of them, and you've lost 650 nanoskills.

639+650=1289 in BM, MM, and MC is needed pre-debuffs to cast Infernal Rage after getting double drained.

1560 is way over that. I would definitely spend enough IP on an additional 29 MM if that lets me cast an awesome getaway nano when I'm in a situation I really want to get the heck out of.

I thought I misunderstood you after I posted but it seems I did not.

1250 Mat Met, NOT 1560. We have 1560 Bio met, Mat Crea, Psy Mod. Although its irrelevant, a good enforcer should be able to spare a few more IP to get above the fully drained mark. OH WAIT, traders have a drain proc too

Honestly a trader can just GTH us while we are canceling stuff and its over.

Terminating some buff in your NCU midfight isn't that hard at all, in fact this was a widely used tactic by TL7 pvp enforcers pre-cocoon-nerf. That way they had a lower 30% cap and their Bio Cocoon lasted longer. This is the sole reason you can't cancel the iMongo hp component.

I am still using this tactic on my 90 Agent twink. Cast Mongo for the hot, cancel hp component after getting hit by one or two AS, and voila you've had a big "heal".

One good tip to pull it off is making your NCU list mode rather than using all the weird icons.

Hellish Rage can also just, y'know, run out. It only lasts 42 seconds.

Commonly used and easy to do is not the same. You have 2 seconds to get down to your NCU, cancel the right buff, and then cast infernal rage before the fight is over. Losing your NR buff also means things land easier.

If you think an enf can do anything after 42 seconds against a trader....lol you really are behind the times lupus Quit acting like traders are easy to deal with.

1. Get stunned.
2. Hit Free Movement.
3. Spam defensive action (IE: NBG/nm-coon and Bio Cocoon/Bio Regrowth for the professions mentioned).
4. ???
5. Survive stuns.

BR and coon are not 1 second cast times, the perks will kill you before they work unless you used them while the enf was charging you. NM coon is insta use but a well timed SA can cap through that. NBG, it has to be up, the NT has to hope I don't have another stun to hit right after they clear the last, and they can't be in recharge....thats the thing that stops an NT from using tools while I perk them.

So more accurately, High DD perk, High DD perk, Stun, High DD perk SA brawl FA and maybe dimach. That is usually all it takes, and then I use rage and run away for 2 minutes

I do not ignore the stuns (there is a 1s delay on your Free Movement), but I can live through them no problem. You do have to change your timing though; start working on getting a heal off before you actually need it for example.

I would actually die to an enforcer alpha if there was no init debuffing. Just a lot less, and only to the top of the bill enfs. Just a -600 init debuff wouldn't be overpowered, but anything like UBT and beyond gives me a helluva time especially since that new init debuffing power comes with a much increased damage alpha.

Maybe I should ask, if you are able to CH would you ever die. Enforcers do not have a 40k alpha, which is how much health you have counting your CH with ess running.




I would hope everyone would consider that perks don't always hit for max damage, dimach is not always up, and our challenger proc is almost never up. This paper pvp thing is annoying

[navycut]

You don't think MA's can hit 3000 NR? Seriously, everytime I mention MA's you jump in yelling "NO NO they are gimp stop it!" I talk regularly with an actual PVP MA, I know what stats you have, so however gimp most of the MA's are means nothing to me.

Most of the information you post is incorrect. I never said anything about MAs being gimp either.

If that so called pvp MA has 3000 static NR, then he is gimp and will be able to only perk docs and engis unless he has MR.

[Jekonam]

You don't think MA's can hit 3000 NR? Seriously, everytime I mention MA's you jump in yelling "NO NO they are gimp stop it!" I talk regularly with an actual PVP MA, I know what stats you have, so however gimp most of the MA's are means nothing to me.

The thing is that when you write fiction about [insert profession], and in this case 3k NR with MA is ridicilous and will gimp the MA.

I would not boast with MA knowledge because you "talk regularly" to one of them.
Start playing one, win, lose and learn for years. Then start talking more.

[Kitesfear]

About enfo defenses, can't be arsed to actually write it again: Read this and weep.

[X-Styx-X]

Something to remind everyone, NT's can remove our rage and all essence buffs with a single nano, and it also puts a lockout on recasting them. 3.3k NR doesn't do much good if they CB the enf first, but they usually just Root us and try to DPM us to death.

every proff has a nemesis nano, so enfs arnt OP cuz there is a nemesis nano vs them ?
Dont see nt's mass farming enfs in bs

i see enfs countering my roots even after 1 CB ( and i got 2.8k+ MC ... )
when that happens u get alphad before u get out of recharge ...


nerf stuns , and restrict them to useing only 1 weapon perk line or something

[Gwenhwyfer]

Good fixes would be:

-lessen the duration (or nerf otherwise) their stuns. Free movements won't save you. By the time they remove the stun, their alpha is well on the way and if you're not blessed with high hp, you're dead in seconds.

-add a cooldown for rage to prevent chain raging. Enfs can just simply skip away when they feel like it and your CC tools are totally inefficient (except for NT roots).

-for the love of god, do something with the new cookiecutter setups (1he/1hb) that gives access to two full lines of dd perks + SA + dimach. From the looks of it, this setup is far superior to others; I don't remember the last time I've seen a pvp enf running around with a 2he weapon.

[Ciex]

Enfs are annoying at lower lvls mostly this is due to big ar and hp; two main factors that play role at lower lvls. It would be much more interesting if there were working evade setups at tl1-3 but unfortunately there are not except GA fixers but those suffer from very low killing power. Their godmode ends around lvl 126. Later on they are good but not op. I find those complains about enfs alpha to be pretty funny because if they had no alpha 2/3 of their opponents would just outheal to 100% hp. Profession that has no crippling debuffs or ability to outlast their opponents with healing, evades or whatever simply needs to have alpha or it will suck like NTs pre LE.

[Gatester]

Most of the information you post is incorrect. I never said anything about MAs being gimp either.

If that so called pvp MA has 3000 static NR, then he is gimp and will be able to only perk docs and engis unless he has MR.

The thing is that when you write fiction about [insert profession], and in this case 3k NR with MA is ridicilous and will gimp the MA.

I would not boast with MA knowledge because you "talk regularly" to one of them.
Start playing one, win, lose and learn for years. Then start talking more.

3.8k static def, 3k NR, 3k AR. MA's are the nerfest

Ive never had as much trouble on my MA as you guys claim. Lemme guess, because I don't post all 24 of my toons in my sig you didn't know I actually had an MA?

every proff has a nemesis nano, so enfs arnt OP cuz there is a nemesis nano vs them ?
Dont see nt's mass farming enfs in bs

i see enfs countering my roots even after 1 CB ( and i got 2.8k+ MC ... )
when that happens u get alphad before u get out of recharge ...


nerf stuns , and restrict them to useing only 1 weapon perk line or something

I mention an ability your profession has and suddenly I make a claim enfs are completely nerfed? Too many players are either 100% or 0%, maybe I mention it because it exists and is therefore a viable addition to this debate?

Either way, unless your NT is suprised or feared you should not die to an enforcer, and that is a fact. You have too many tools to counteract our abilities, and too much damage for us to tank for very long. It is the addition of other attackers that becomes a problem, not a single enforcer.

[Genie]

Nano Resist IS our defense. TMS/AMS is soldier defense. It is a valid comparison. Just because 2.5k NR works for a prof with high healing ability, or 4500 def, or massive damage mitigation tools does not mean my enforcer should be at the same level.

You also have massive health, coon, healing and pretty good static def compared to soldier. Its a very good overall defence. It would be more accurate if you said that NR is your only defence against debuffs.

[Kopecz]

Good fixes would be:

-lessen the duration (or nerf otherwise) their stuns. Free movements won't save you. By the time they remove the stun, their alpha is well on the way and if you're not blessed with high hp, you're dead in seconds.

Unfortunately stuns -are- getting nerfed in The Great Rebalancing, but you do realize that the stuns we need to pull off that alpha on some profs are on 4 min (Avalanche) and 5 min (Stone Fist) timers right? 5 min alpha ... OP, apparently.

-add a cooldown for rage to prevent chain raging. Enfs can just simply skip away when they feel like it and your CC tools are totally inefficient (except for NT roots).

Read the Enforcer Balance discussion. This is happening in The Great Rebalancing.

-for the love of god, do something with the new cookiecutter setups (1he/1hb) that gives access to two full lines of dd perks + SA + dimach. From the looks of it, this setup is far superior to others; I don't remember the last time I've seen a pvp enf running around with a 2he weapon.

This is apparently getting "unlocked" again. And it's superior for pvp b/c you get far more perks to land on your target, some of which are essential like stuns and init debuffs. No one really does 2he anymore because A) Reaver is getting nerfed ... again and B) Why hotswap for SA when you can equip 1he and get SA and some DD perks as well?

If you could perk SMG Mastery and Pistol Mastery both out to 10 I pretty much guarantee you would do so. So why should enfs not be able to do this?

I find those complains about enfs alpha to be pretty funny because if they had no alpha 2/3 of their opponents would just outheal to 100% hp. Profession that has no crippling debuffs or ability to outlast their opponents with healing, evades or whatever simply needs to have alpha or it will suck like NTs pre LE.

^ This. Please raise your hand if you've ever died to Enforcer Brawl and Fast Attack at TL7.

You also have massive health, coon, healing and pretty good static def compared to soldier. Its a very good overall defence. It would be more accurate if you said that NR is your only defence against debuffs.

Read Kitesfear's post above because, except for the NR thing (of which a huge percentage comes from Rage), it's not "pretty good".

[Kinkstaah]

Anyone who thinks enforcers need a nerf is a bad player or needs to work on their gear, or completely fails at understanding the class.

There are many reasons you do not see many good enforcers at TL7 at all. There's never been more than about 5 on the damn server at any one time.

The way enforcers kill people seems overpowered as you get charged at with insane runspeed, resist a nano and alpha someone into the ground - but its the only way they can kill people. Vs a good player, the perks are absorbed, dodged, and this awesome alpha gets someone to 50%, which is then healed up, etc, leaving the enforcer with um, absolutely nothing at all.

Enforcers are "OK" in the grand scheme of things. Kill to death ratio can be quite good, but you're kidding yourself if you think Enforcers get huge amounts of kills in a BS - They don't, I'd be lucky to get more than 5 in a BS - it's just the few ones that they do get look OP - And they can run off until the time is right to execute that kill, maybe.

[navycut]

3.8k static def, 3k NR, 3k AR. MA's are the nerfest

Congrats with the sploits then. There isn't any way you can have that.

Oh, and if you don't believe me, head on down to the MA forums and ask there before looking like a complete fool because "you herd its fram a pvp MA hur hur"

[X-Styx-X]

Either way, unless your NT is suprised or feared you should not die to an enforcer, and that is a fact. You have too many tools to counteract our abilities, and too much damage for us to tank for very long. It is the addition of other attackers that becomes a problem, not a single enforcer.

where do u get those facts ?

to use those tools we have to debuff the enf enough to actualy land them
what is it we do while we cast those ? hope the enf doesn't see us?

55k nano in NBG is pretty good for a nt , yet if a enf gets close i will barely get 1 nuke of if its a good enf (brawl stun stun stun , fear )

i are ment to evade tank ? i see them perking fixers with their new toys ... i'll pass
Not like my AR debuff stuff is gonna land withoud debuffing(wich means i have to tank till its done).



Return enfs to how they where before the 1he/1hb thing , they where powerfull enough.

[Moonbolt]

X-styx-X maybe u should try using the nanobot shelter or whats it called... more then once have a NT absorbed my full so called OP alpha without a scratch while at the same time stackingup CB at atm reducing my so called OP NR to 300 NR.
all i do after that is TRY to run away cause i dont have any dmg for another 1 min that actually can hurt the NT, tho ofcourse running away doesnt work eitehr because NTs have specialized burden of craplas that keeps me standing like a moron looking at the NT ganking me.

yeah ofcourse i have kille dmy fair share of NTs.
but the fight is def in the NTs favour.

[X-Styx-X]

X-styx-X maybe u should try using the nanobot shelter or whats it called... more then once have a NT absorbed my full so called OP alpha without a scratch while at the same time stackingup CB at atm reducing my so called OP NR to 300 NR.
all i do after that is TRY to run away cause i dont have any dmg for another 1 min that actually can hurt the NT, tho ofcourse running away doesnt work eitehr because NTs have specialized burden of craplas that keeps me standing like a moron looking at the NT ganking me.

yeah ofcourse i have kille dmy fair share of NTs.
but the fight is def in the NTs favour.

u dont mean nanobot shelter mate thats the nt bubble that lowers caped hits and stuff

u mean NS2 ^^
yep that works for a few sec , but after that ur tied to NBG , most good enfs will keep fear for right when the root brakes -> cast it before u can recast root and u get same result ...
enf munching down ur massive nanopool shield in a few sec

u said u dont have any dmg for 1Min cuz u used all ur dmg on NS2 , if u do that the nt deserves to kill u to punish u ! u ****ed up , dont use perks if the the nt is in ns2 , save em

so nt's have it easy vs enfs ... all we have to do is go afk 30min if we see a enf in bs to swap to def focus , and hope u dont get chain stunned+fear to dead and u'll have a chance vs the enf

[Moonbolt]

omg lol i dont mean NS 2 i mean Nanobot shelter.
ive unleashed more then my full alpha ito NBS seeral times on a NT and hardly scratching him.
in best case scenario i get him down to 50% health if he has NBS up during my alpha or if he manages to get it up.
NTs are no longer glasscannons so stop pretending u are.

[X-Styx-X]

omg lol i dont mean NS 2 i mean Nanobot shelter.
ive unleashed more then my full alpha ito NBS seeral times on a NT and hardly scratching him.
in best case scenario i get him down to 50% health if he has NBS up during my alpha or if he manages to get it up.
NTs are no longer glasscannons so stop pretending u are.

oke Ur clueless

Nanobot Shelter in the top form is called Superior Nanobot Shelter , and nts do NOT up it like u claim since we allways have it running , and it does nothing more then absorb/lower caps by 25%
and move that dmg to our nanopool. so wtf are u talking about ?
U can't alpha a NT on a 1hb/1he enf cuz he has that running ? must be a joke ... or ... u sure ur a enf ?

and next u mention NBS , wtf ? why would a nt use that since nbs/nbg is a joke vs enfs , ask any nt on ur server since i see ur from rk1 , no nt is retarded enough to duel a enf with just NBG shielding since ... thats shield dies in like 10sec to a enfs alpha and then game over.
So ur claiming u can't punch trough NBG ? only enfs i seen that can't ar greens ... can't odd a green he ?

dude if u really wanna argue with a long time nt about the nanos i have , at least learn the proper names . or go LOL somewhere else

http://auno.org/ao/nanos.php?prof=nano-technician

there ya go

[Autofil]

Why unleash the full alpha on the NT when you see him pop NBG?
When im playing my NT im just baffeled by the ammount of people actually trying to kill you with NBG up.

As a NT I rarely bother with enfs in BS as they take alot of work to kill, its usualy more "damaging" to leave them there rooted untill a soldier pass by.
Heck, id say more than half of the enfs I run into in BS dont even carry free movements.

Enforcers seem decent in TL7, rage needs to be toned down tho as killing a enf that realy wants to get away is impossible.
TL 2-5 they are so OP its just stupid.