What makes Enforcers OP in your opinion?

[Gatester]

Come on, Gatester is funny. He's like that Iraq information minister guy.

not to mention the fact he can sum up everything there is to know about every single profession in a single post <3

Still stuck on that fake post huh? I thought it was actually very accurate based on most posts in this thread. Just one example is if I have a high healing profession without even having healing based perks in my setup then that makes half the profs in AO high healers Best part, people only tried to correct the things on professions they had when so much of it was total bullcrap, which tends to show players really don't know that much about other professions abilities.

Making a thread titled "What makes enfos OPed?" and expecting 10 pages of "Nothing, enfos are fine as they are" is always going to disappoint you, Gate Next time name it "Why enfos are just fine, please don't post unless you heartily agree!"

I can disagree with some opinions and agree with others can't I You play soldier too much you are stuck in on and off too hehe. Although it does get annoying when everyone thinks that enforcers should have no defenses, as if Max Health works so well it should be the only tool we have

Like I said the High runspeed+CC removal+High NR is too much together, but you can adjust the high runspeed or CC removal (which FC is doing) rather than trying to nerf my NR. Without Nano Resist, enforcer could not pvp. This is a fact that I am not sure how anyone cannot realize, and should be apparent with how much we defend it. If some professions cannot kill us because of our NR, then give them an option that works against us without a crippling nerf (again FC is doing this for most profs).

If you want, you could even test it out by fighting an enforcer with GSF instead of casting rage (adjust his evades accordingly). See what its like when every debuff, root, and snare lands 100% of the time alongside every NR based perk in game. For extra help, let him keep the CC tool removal and see if it actually makes a difference when you are chain rooted. Perma-rooted melee professions are not fun.

[Burgly]

If you want, you could even test it out by fighting an enforcer with GSF instead of casting rage (adjust his evades accordingly). See what its like when every debuff, root, and snare lands 100% of the time alongside every NR based perk in game. For extra help, let him keep the CC tool removal and see if it actually makes a difference when you are chain rooted. Perma-rooted melee professions are not fun.

Just like shades

[Gatester]

Just like shades

Lol thats actually what I edited out. "You know, just like shades"

I don't think that "because I get debuffed" is a good reason for an enf to have such high NR. I've tried moving away from Mimic: Doc. Under other Mimics, I really notice the ridiculousness of enf NR. Predrained, through a 90% check, I have trouble landing Divest on enfs in a maxed nanoskill setup designed around using Mimic: Trader. Perhaps (I'd say definitely) that's a problem with Agents, but I mention it because it has given me a different perspective on enf NR. Casting professions have a pretty slim chance against something like that.

Now, just for a little bit I'll buy into it. Let's say that an Enf should have high NR. Why should they have high NR 100% of the time? Other professions cannot have their defenses up 100% of the time. There is literally no downtime on rage currently. Also, from what I understand there will continue to be no downtime on the NR part of rage. The cooldown will apparently be the same as, or shorter than, the duration of rage. We're talking about a possible 1-2 second gap between the end of rage and the start of the new one, and all of this comes with no sacrifice towards the performance of the Enf.

You are still avoiding the question as to why enforcers should have 2000 NR instead of 3300, but after some thought I can give an alternative that you can consider.

If the NR boost for enforcers was not indefinite, but instead limited to maybe 15 seconds, there would be a few stipulations to make that fair. Since an enforcer would not benefit from an NR based defense after he is drained/debuffed, it would have to have very low reqs. With an incredibly low duration alongside a lockout, simply removing CC tools wouldn't be enough. Rage would have to remove all debuffs including drains so that an enforcer will have a tool that makes sense (rather than something like a stun removal tool you use AFTER you are stunned). If we could make use of Rage as a situational anti-debuff and NR defensive tool rather than a constant buff, then I think it would be fair. Simply nerfing our NR defense into oblivion would not.

Not every defense should have a sacrifice. DoF and Limber shouldn't cause an equal reduction in Attack rating, Heals should not lock you out of your offensive abilities (hence local cooldowns), Max health should not cause you to take more damage, etc etc. Part of it being a "defense" is that it does not hamper your profession.

[navycut]

The only reason other melee classes don't have rage, is because they have other means of breaking roots/getting into range.

Mmmm I do know when an agent or something kites, they can run much much faster than I can ever hope to catch up with my MA. Doubt keepers are able to catch up to kiters either.

Shades, while they can catch up to you, they are very vulnerable to roots.

Melee advs well... it's an adv.

So only melee advs can really compare.

[erozc]

To Gatester: Misquotes aren't funny and it would be better if you tried to prove your point without using them. Second, read your own thread title. "In your opinion." As long as you're categorically disagreeing with most opinions, why bother asking for them? My opinion about landing perks on enfs is as valid as yours, the viewpoints are just on the different ends of the shotgun.

Opinions are like butt holes. Everyone's got one. Most of 'em stink.

Edit: I actually agree with the removing of advy absorbs making sense. Cyclic shields should be enough at any rate. Now, about the enf NR...

[Gatester]

Arguing with facts is not an opinion. It is not my opinion that enforcers have 2700 def, it is my opinion that it is not too much def (while saying it is too much is a viable opinion). Saying professions cannot perk def setup enforcers is also not an opinion but a lie. There is no profession that does not have a setup giving them the ability to perk enfs.

You can say the NR gives enforcers too much of an advantage, or you can say enforcers run too fast, but you cannot say our capped runspeed is better than someone elses capped runspeed or that enforcers are evading everyones perks and are unperkable. I can even argue that enforcers do not have a high healing ability, while others say they heal too much and again that is a valid opinion. There are facts and there are opinions, and while opinions can differ, as far as facts go you are either right or wrong. 2700 def is not enough to make us immune to professions perks.


PS. There is no need to nerf the NR portion of rage if the CC removal and runspeed are both being adjusted in the future now is there? Otherwise we end up like Navy described keepers and shades.

[Lupusceleri]

2700 def is not enough to make us immune to professions perks.

As you do not seem to understand, while 2700 base def IS a problem. Why?

While it does not enable you to become immune to perks at all times - obviously - it does enable you to become immune at key moments by perking Highway and/or Wit.

That puts you just out of my perking range for Concussive Shot. Do that during the alpha, and I've got a much harder time with you. Because sometimes offensive perks are used to survive - rather than kill. Other examples that come to mind are Red Dusk/Flower of Life for MA, Vital Shock for Trader, and various other stun or debuff or lifetap perks.

[crattey]

Still stuck on that fake post huh?

Fake post? This is entire thread is faked -.-

[Kinkstaah]

As you do not seem to understand, while 2700 base def IS a problem. Why?

While it does not enable you to become immune to perks at all times - obviously - it does enable you to become immune at key moments by perking Highway and/or Wit.

That puts you just out of my perking range for Concussive Shot. Do that during the alpha, and I've got a much harder time with you. Because sometimes offensive perks are used to survive - rather than kill. Other examples that come to mind are Red Dusk/Flower of Life for MA, Vital Shock for Trader, and various other stun or debuff or lifetap perks.

wtf lol
no.

[Kinkstaah]

Mmmm I do know when an agent or something kites, they can run much much faster than I can ever hope to catch up with my MA. Doubt keepers are able to catch up to kiters either.

Shades, while they can catch up to you, they are very vulnerable to roots.

Melee advs well... it's an adv.

So only melee advs can really compare.

You can catch a selfed agent on a MA. Also, aforementioned Agent isnt going to be able to land a snare perk on you either. MA's don't generally have any issues with mimic doc agents in the real world at all.

So not only do you not see MA's being rooted, you also dont see them stopping to cast anything to avoid being rooted. In addition to that, instead of having huge NR, they just royally up someone who is casting with their debuffs, if not just straight up them up with their fists

[heartless888]

As you do not seem to understand, while 2700 base def IS a problem. Why?

While it does not enable you to become immune to perks at all times - obviously - it does enable you to become immune at key moments by perking Highway and/or Wit.

That puts you just out of my perking range for Concussive Shot. Do that during the alpha, and I've got a much harder time with you. Because sometimes offensive perks are used to survive - rather than kill. Other examples that come to mind are Red Dusk/Flower of Life for MA, Vital Shock for Trader, and various other stun or debuff or lifetap perks.

are you for real? enfs made the sacrifice by going all out def items and perk a certain way to get this kind of def

you are crying because you cant CS an enf with your DEF HUD ON, put the scope on, done, perking enfs is easy now, you made the choice to cut on your AS by that much just like enfs cut their AR by going highway or use the def hud

and if you cant CS an enf with a scope on, then the problem isnt the enf but the OBs people can get in pvp

[navycut]

You can catch a selfed agent on a MA. Also, aforementioned Agent isnt going to be able to land a snare perk on you either. MA's don't generally have any issues with mimic doc agents in the real world at all.

So not only do you not see MA's being rooted, you also dont see them stopping to cast anything to avoid being rooted. In addition to that, instead of having huge NR, they just royally f*** up someone who is casting with their debuffs, if not just straight up f*** them up with their fists

I think you missed the point, I wasn't saying anything abt agent vs MA. Just your post about 'other melee profs have other ways of getting in range'

[Obtena]

As you do not seem to understand, while 2700 base def IS a problem. Why?

If 2700 AAD is a problem, then the game is in trouble because most other profs if not all, have access to the many items we use to get that, on top of other things they get like perks and buffs.

So the 2700 isn't an enfo problem, it's a game problem.

[Klod9003]

If 2700 AAD is a problem, then the game is in trouble because most other profs if not all, have access to the many items we use to get that, on top of other things they get like perks and buffs.

So the 2700 isn't an enfo problem, it's a game problem.

Exactly. That's why those items should have != enforcer in its equip reqs.

[Lupusceleri]

How about actually reading what I said before trolling.

The ONLY time for me that the def of Enforcers becomes a problem is when they execute their def perks and start to alpha me. Yes, I do have a def setup. No, I don't expect to perk everyone with it. Yes, I do expect other DEF focused toons to have at least some issues perking me in return.

[Gatester]

I would like to point out that most enfs were willing to have a temporary buff to reduce our AAD by a massive amount to in turn boost our AAO.

It also wouldn't hurt my feelings if all of the alb items, those OP wrist items, and all the ofab back armors lost their AAD boosts. The defense research could be adjusted a bit too. -350 AAD all around, and making a sacrifice for actual evade gear hm.....


@Lupus, an enf with wit of the atrox and highway, what is necessary to avoid your perks, does not have the AR to perk your agent without his LE proc "usually". Im not sure of your exact evade close def but it will be close if you FP a prof with evade buffs first. Then you also have a blind ring which is as situationally viable to include as any defensive perk, since you will notice exactly when an enfs LE proc fires.

[Obtena]

Exactly. That's why those items should have != enforcer in its equip reqs.

Like I said ... it's a GAME problem that everyone has access to massive AAD items, not an enfo one, so != enforcer in its equip reqs solves nothing. How you interpret a global game issue with a reason to nerf enfos, I don't know, but I'm not surprised really.

[Klod9003]

Like I said ... it's a GAME problem that everyone has access to massive AAD items, not an enfo one, so != enforcer in its equip reqs solves nothing. How you interpret a global game issue with a reason to nerf enfos, I don't know, but I'm not surprised really.

This is about fairly high AAD enfs can get, combined with stuff that other professions can't get at the same time, like high NR/root and snare resistance/ability to easy remove roots and snares/capped speed/stuns/high alpha potential... You make the math.

It's not global game issue.

[Obtena]

You might want to try NOT contradicting yourself because at post #183 you said that enfos weren't OP'ed.

[heartless888]

This is about fairly high AAD enfs can get, combined with stuff that other professions can't get at the same time, like high NR/root and snare resistance/ability to easy remove roots and snares/capped speed/stuns/high alpha potential... You make the math.

It's not global game issue.

ill give you a global game issue, advies having next to 900 more def than enf.